# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 175
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3481 "2012-04-09T19:56:50Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Not exactly. He’s the only poster poster paying any attention to your claims at all. Bit i agree with you that it works out to the same thing. Well, that’s nice. Guess I’ve only been talking to just myself in this monstrosity of a thread. That’s for pointing that out to me. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3482 "2012-04-09T20:11:32Z")
An interesting statment by Benjamin Crump. > [@](#): > > “We were anticipating that there would be no grand jury, because the family has always been hopeful that there would just simply be an arrest,” said Benjamin Crump, an attorney for the Martin family. “We believed, from day one, that they had enough evidence to arrest the killer of Trayvon Martin and now, as the evidence has continued to unfold, we think there has been a plethora of evidence to simply effect probable cause to do an arrest – not for a conviction, but for an arrest.” > Crump said the family is hoping for charges against Zimmerman and an arrest as soon as possible. > “We want a very public trial so the evidence can come out and show people that the justice system works for everybody,” he said. [http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=us\_c2](http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=us_c2) It sounds to me like Crump doesn’t even care if Zimmerman is convicted. On an unrelated note, the AP is reporting about a possible civil suit against the “Retreat at Twin Lakes” like it is actual news, when the Orlando Sentinel was reporting about it last week. [http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-matin-family-target-homeowners-association-lawsuit-neighborhood-watch-article-1.1058522](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-matin-family-target-homeowners-association-lawsuit-neighborhood-watch-article-1.1058522) ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3483 "2012-04-09T20:26:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, no. I’m saying I think that would be a terrible thing, if it happened. I wasn’t being a dick. I thought by your use of “she” that you might be implying that Corey had already caved to public opinion in some fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3484 "2012-04-09T20:27:36Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I wasn’t being a dick. I thought by your use of “she” that you might be implying that Corey had already caved to public opinion in some fashion. No, no – i did use ‘she’ because the current prosecutor is female, but my statement was definitely intended to be suppositional. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3485 "2012-04-09T20:32:00Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And? So what? You’re the only one who cares. Why does it matter how many people care? The fact remains: you trumpeted a fact – Zimmerman’s weight – that seems to have turned out to be widely inaccurate. (Of course, who knows?) And after the later reporting drastically reduced the weight differential between Martin and Zimmerman, you haven’t once posted anything that directly acknowledges you might have been wrong. Have you? Confronted with that lack, your response is to wonder why I bother pointing it out. As though it amazes you that anyone would care about how wrong you are. Is that it? You’re so used to being wrong that it amazes you that I even notice this particular event? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3486 "2012-04-09T20:32:55Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > An interesting statment by Benjamin Crump. > > [http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=us\_c2](http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/09/us/florida-teen-shooting/?hpt=us_c2) > > It sounds to me like Crump doesn’t even care if Zimmerman is convicted… Whether he actually believes this or not, that has been the family’s consistent position. They want their child’s death to be given a thorough investigation and a trial of the claims and evidence, and they don’t think it’s possible through any other means than an arrest and trial. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3487 "2012-04-09T20:58:43Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Whether he actually believes this or not, that has been the family’s consistent position. They want their child’s death to be given a thorough investigation and a trial of the claims and evidence, and they don’t think it’s possible through any other means than an arrest and trial. First, Martin family’s supporters: [http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-26/justice/justice\_florida-teen-shooting-events\_1\_protesters-demand-justice-city-commission-shooter/2?\_s=PM:JUSTICE](http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-26/justice/justice_florida-teen-shooting-events_1_protesters-demand-justice-city-commission-shooter/2?_s=PM:JUSTICE) In Washington, speakers organized by the National Black United Front lined up, one by one, to grab a bullhorn and demand a “conviction” of Zimmerman. [http://insightnews.com/news/8717-naacp-cautiously-pleased-with-police-chiefs-decision-to-step-aside-reiterates-call-for-arrest-](http://insightnews.com/news/8717-naacp-cautiously-pleased-with-police-chiefs-decision-to-step-aside-reiterates-call-for-arrest-) “We are calling for the arrest and conviction of George Zimmerman for the crime that he committed…" … and his father > **[U.S. News: Latest news, breaking news, today's news stories updated daily...](https://www.cbsnews.com/us/)** > > U.S. breaking news: Today's top stories updated by the CBS News team. “We want an arrest, we want a conviction for the murder of our son,” said his father, Tracy Martin. ================================= Granted, if my child was killed, I’d probably want blood too. But it is misleading to say all they want is the trial. They certainly will not be satisfied with a trial that does not lead to Zimmerman’s conviction. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3488 "2012-04-09T21:08:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The fact remains: you trumpeted a fact – Zimmerman’s weight – that seems to have turned out to be widely inaccurate. (Of course, who knows?) I didn’t trumpet anything. I simply treated 250 lbs as if it were accurately reported information. _OMG, why aren’t I banned yet???!_ Are you tired of looking like a kid? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3489 "2012-04-09T21:37:26Z")
No grand jury= no charge of murder. Manslaughter or less. Were the people saying that Zimmerman “murdered” Martin just engaging in hyperbole or are they going to protest that Zimmerman won’t be charged with murder? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3490 "2012-04-09T21:38:55Z")
Just came in to talk about the news that the special prosecutor has decided not to bring in the grand jury. Wonder what that could mean? If charges are filed and Zimmerman arrested, then good. If not, it will look like they took the decision away from the hands of a jury and decided the shooting was justified. If that’s the result, I’m not going to feel bad when they are all fired or step down ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3491 "2012-04-09T22:02:40Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Are you tired of looking like a kid? [MODERATING] You aren’t in the Pit. Attacking arguments is fine. Attacking posters is not. Thanks. RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3492 "2012-04-09T23:17:51Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I didn’t trumpet anything. I simply treated 250 lbs as if it were accurately reported information. _OMG, why aren’t I banned yet???!_ Ah, yes, your calm recitation of factual information is especially obvious here: > [@you with the face](#): > > I guess if Zimmerman had asserted that Martin bent down and carried his 250 lbs ass down the street, you’d think that’s plausible too. It’s impossible to tell how you feel from that strictly factual post. > [@](#): > > Are you tired of looking like a kid? I don’t agree that asking you to be accountable for your error is acting like a kid. So, again, I urged waiting until facts were in. You felt we had enough facts to be sure of what happened: > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > A jury is smart enough to connect dots together. That’s why I’m unpersuaded by all the insistence that this case is weak. Only one person in the exchange would be expected to be screaming like that, and it’s NOT the 250 lbs armed individual who hunted Martin down like a rabid animal. It’s NOT the individual who left the safety of his truck to confront a stranger who he had prejudged upfront as dangerous. And it’s NOT the person whose injuries constituted something Alfalfa and Buckwheat would have sustained on a typical day with the rascals. So let’s be real. Now you have learned that Zimmerman was probably eighty pounds lighter, and Martin ten pounds heavier, than you were sure their weights were. But you are unwilling to unambiguously say, “I was wrong.” What else were you wrong about? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3493 "2012-04-09T23:22:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Just came in to talk about the news that the special prosecutor has decided not to bring in the grand jury. Wonder what that could mean? > > If charges are filed and Zimmerman arrested, then good. If not, it will look like they took the decision away from the hands of a jury and decided the shooting was justified. If that’s the result, I’m not going to feel bad when they are all fired or step down Why? The law says that that’s their role. Why should you glory in the potential result that they take the principled path – after all, knowing the intense public pressure in play, it’s pretty hard to keep painting these decisions as incompetence or racism, isn’t it? So if they decide not to charge, it seems to me that they are risking their careers to do what they perceive as the right thing. If the result is the loss of that job, why would that pease you? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3494 "2012-04-09T23:34:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why? > > The law says that that’s their role. Why should you glory in the potential result that they take the principled path – after all, knowing the intense public pressure in play, it’s pretty hard to keep painting these decisions as incompetence or racism, isn’t it? So if they decide not to charge, it seems to me that they are risking their careers to do what they perceive as the right thing. If the result is the loss of that job, why would that pease you? White Queen: “there’s the King’s Messenger. He’s in prison now, being punished: and the trial doesn’t even begin till next Wednesday: and of course the crime comes last of all.” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3495 "2012-04-09T23:54:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What else were you wrong about? I thought you would stop with this line of foolishness hours ago. Mea culpa. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3496 "2012-04-10T00:19:29Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I thought you would stop with this line of foolishness hours ago. Mea culpa. Why would I let the matter drop? You have dominated this thread with post after relentless post, confidently asserting “facts” and reacting with offended dignity when people said you were making things up, and affirming with each new post that you were privvy to The Truth. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to now point out that perhaps some of the “facts” you parroted from early reporting appear to be wrong, a danger I warned about by advising caution and waiting. I don’t even know if you agree you were wrong, because, although you’ve hinted at it, you have been steadfast in refusing to admit that there’s a chance Zimmerman’s weight differential with Martin is not, as you kept saying, over one hundred pounds. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3497 "2012-04-10T00:25:05Z")
**you with the face** wasn’t wrong, **Bricker**. The publications that she–and everyone else–had read and believed reported incorrect information. That is why she will not don sackcloth before you. And why you are being so relentless on this, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3498 "2012-04-10T00:38:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why would I let the matter drop? You have dominated this thread with post after relentless… Well, you would know what that looks like, wouldn’t you? Count how many many posts you’ve made on this page alone. Look at how lengthy these posts have been. Look how shrill your tone has become. All over me not saying mea culpa over Zimmerman’s weight–a piece of data that plenty of others on both sides of the debate treated as much of a given as I did. If you can’t tell right now, I am extremely unpersuaded by your posts and am only responding to you so that I can hone my skills in the one-liner department. You should just pit me rather than stretch this travesty out any further. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3499 "2012-04-10T00:43:31Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **you with the face** wasn’t wrong, **Bricker**. > > The publications that she–and everyone else–had read and believed reported incorrect information. > > That is why she will not don sackcloth before you. And why you are being so relentless on this, I have no idea. Yes, of course, I know that. I specifically said that I knew she didn’t make it up, but was relying on early published reports. My point, though, is that relying on early reports is fraught with just this peril: it carries with it the risk of getting suckered by just such an error. This is why I urged, and continue to urge, waiting until it appears we have all the facts before boldly announcing you know what happened. You say “…and everyone else…” but in point of fact, I didn’t particularly believe it. I kept saying I didn’t know, and neither did she. I’m asking her to admit that relying on early reports meant that she may have gotten wrong information about Zimmerman’s weight and Martin’s weight. Since you appear to agree that this is exactly what happened, what’s the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3500 "2012-04-10T00:50:06Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Well, you would know what that looks like, wouldn’t you? Count how many many posts you’ve made on this page alone. Look at how lengthy these posts have been. Look how shrill your tone has become. All over me not saying mea culpa over Zimmerman’s weight–a piece of data that plenty of others on both sides of the debate treated as much of a given as I did. > > If you can’t tell right now, I am extremely unpersuaded by your posts and am only responding to you so that I can hone my skills in the one-liner department. You should just pit me rather than stretch this travesty out any further. No, I think your mistake is here, and the last thing the SDMB needs is another Zimmerman/Martin thread, Pit or otherwise. It fits perfectly right here: my opinion is you were wrong, because you relied on early reports that were wrong, and now you don’t want to admit it. Right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=174) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=176)