# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 187
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3721 "2012-04-11T23:44:52Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Looking back to the definition of 2nd degree murder (post #3694), it seems to me that the highest hurdle to overcome is proving “the unlawful killing of a human being”. I’m guessing that the defense will try to stop the prosecution right there – that the killing was legal because it was a justified use of self-defense. > > I would think that, if you’ve already demonstrated it was illegal, and if you have already established ill will, that the very act of shooting a kid in the chest is evidence of indifference to the life of the victim. > > I also think there are months and months of guilty shameful entertainment ahead for all of us. No, the reason Second Degree murder is much more difficult to prove than manslaughter or unjustifiable homicide (in Florida, where because of this thread I have read the statutes) is it has a very specific intent clause that must be proven along with the other two elements of the crime: > [@](#): > > is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent, and If you can’t prove the evil intent/ill will/hatred/spite (and no, “he shot him that is obviously evil intent” doesn’t work) it’ll end up being manslaughter even if you prove the illegality of the shooting itself but don’t prove the intent element. In many local cases I’m familiar with here in Virginia prosecutors will up charge fights that end up in death to murder but almost all I knew of personally (a small handful) the plea ends up being manslaughter and not murder. If you don’t charge high you can’t plea high, either. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3722 "2012-04-11T23:47:14Z")
Zimmerman’s new lawyer is named Mark O’Mara. I think he did a terrific job at the press conference. He seemed almost grateful that at this state he is operating in almost total ignorance, he responded to several questions by noting that he knows nothing more than what the reporters themselves already know. The only substantive information he provided was that Zimmerman contacted him after his name had come up in conversations Zimmerman had with other people he asked for advice about who to hire. One other small piece, he also noted that he expected “self-defense” to be an element in the case, which is hardly a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3723 "2012-04-11T23:49:41Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > That seems like a VERY high bar, even for _first_ degree murder. It’s the kind of thing I associate with Manson, or Jack the Ripper. I wouldn’t use those terms for, say, someone who murdered her husband because he cheated on her. It ends up being just, “yeah, I wanted to kill the bastard”. What we’ve heard from eye witnesses is that Martin as on top punching Zimmerman. So I see no way of proving that Zimmerman just wanted to shoot the bastard. It was clearly a defensive shot. Now, I can see an argument for negligence or recklessness leading to a manslaughter charge, but not murder. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3724 "2012-04-11T23:51:52Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > No, the reason Second Degree murder is much more difficult to prove than manslaughter or unjustifiable homicide (in Florida, where because of this thread I have read the statutes) is it has a very specific intent clause that must be proven along with the other two elements of the crime: > > If you can’t prove the evil intent/ill will/hatred/spite (and no, “he shot him that is obviously evil intent” doesn’t work) it’ll end up being manslaughter even if you prove the illegality of the shooting itself but don’t prove the intent element. > > In many local cases I’m familiar with here in Virginia prosecutors will up charge fights that end up in death to murder but almost all I knew of personally (a small handful) the plea ends up being manslaughter and not murder. If you don’t charge high you can’t plea high, either. Actually, I agree with you. I made this same point in post #3700, and was replying to TonySinclair’s argument against mine in post #3713. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3725 "2012-04-11T23:59:03Z")
[QUOTE=treis] It was clearly a defensive shot. [/QUOTE] If that were true, dude wouldn’t have been charged with murder. I think it’s safe to say that not only is it _not_ clear it was defensive, there is evidence that it wasnt. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3726 "2012-04-12T00:01:21Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > [He set himself up a website that takes Paypal](http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/) and if you Google, there are posts on a lot of pro gun boards saying they kicked him some money. An American flag background…of course. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3727 "2012-04-12T00:01:41Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Zimmerman’s new lawyer is named Mark O’Mara. I think he did a terrific job at the press conference. He seemed almost grateful that at this state he is operating in almost total ignorance, he responded to several questions by noting that he knows nothing more than what the reporters themselves already know. The only substantive information he provided was that Zimmerman contacted him after his name had come up in conversations Zimmerman had with other people he asked for advice about who to hire. One other small piece, he also noted that he expected “self-defense” to be an element in the case, which is hardly a surprise. O’Mara is a [legal analyst for Central Florida’s WKMG Channel 6](http://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-mark-omara-george-zimmerman-lawyer-2012-4), and is on record with opinions about the case: > [@](#): > > According to a [bio on the O’Mara Law Group website](http://www.markomaralaw.com/Attorney-Profile/Mark-M-O-mara.shtml), O’Mara is a criminal and family law attorney, as well as a legal analyst for Central Florida’s WKMG Channel 6. > > In fact, just yesterday, O’Mara was opining about the Zimmerman case, [telling WKMG-Channel 6](http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Experts-weigh-in-on-Trayvon-Martin-investigation/-/1637132/10376226/-/rf98x9/-/index.html) that he was “surprised that two attorneys who were no longer counsel talked for an hour about a case that they’re no longer involved in.” > > “I think that was a little problematic,” O’Mara said. "You’re not supposed to talk about a client’s case, for the most part at all, and yet they answered dozens of questions.” > > O’Mara also commented on the Martin case last month, [telling WKMG](http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Family-of-Trayvon-Martin-wants-FBI-investigation/-/1637132/9326686/-/1x4rcvz/-/) that the shooting could be legally justified by Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law. He also said that, without witnesses, it will come down to Zimmerman’s word without any contradictions. > > “If you can present evidence or at least your own testimony that (you) felt in fear that he was going to commit great bodily injury or death, that is what kicks in the statutory protection that you’re allowed to respond with deadly force,” O’Mara said. Don’t if that will work against his client. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3728 "2012-04-12T00:02:24Z")
[America’s foremost legal expert, Mike Tyson, has weighed in on George Zimmerman](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/mike-tyson-trayvon-martin-case-disgrace-george-zimmerman-221115400.html): > [@](#): > > It’s a disgrace he hasn’t been shot yet. We can all unsubscribe to this thread now. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3729 "2012-04-12T00:08:34Z")
Zimmerman is arrested and will be charged. Well, at least the riots are on hold for awhile. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have turned this into a very danger powder keg. I’m actually glad he’s being charged. I don’t think there’s any chance he’ll be convicted. But at least the trial will make the blacks happy. No one has to die in the riots this week. I am concerned Sharpton and Jackson will keep fanning the hate speech. We may see Rodney King style rioting and looting after Zimmerman is found not guilty. I hope not. I’ve lived through enough riots, beatings and lootings for one life time. My first was Watts in 1965. I was only 4 years old and still remember the burning buildings on the news. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3730 "2012-04-12T00:10:24Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > [America’s foremost legal expert, Mike Tyson, has weighed in on George Zimmerman](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/mike-tyson-trayvon-martin-case-disgrace-george-zimmerman-221115400.html): > > We can all unsubscribe to this thread now. I think I’ll just fade into Bolivia. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3731 "2012-04-12T00:13:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > …But at least the trial will make the blacks happy. No one has to die in the riots this week… Know how I can tell you really hate that Zimmerman has been arrested? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3732 "2012-04-12T00:15:01Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If that were true, dude wouldn’t have been charged with murder. I think it’s safe to say that not only is it _not_ clear it was defensive, there is evidence that it wasnt. Like I said earlier, unless there is some shocking big reveal, we have a witness who saw Martin beating Zimmerman and Zimmerman had wounds consistent with being beat up. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, there’s no real way to pin a murder charge on him. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3733 "2012-04-12T00:16:31Z")
Al Sharpton has been calling for civil unrest for over two weeks. The new black panther party put a bounty on Zimmerman’s head. Of course the prosecutor will press charges. Its the only way to prevent riots and looting. I’ve been expecting this arrest for two weeks. I understand we have to do this to prevent burnings and killing. > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Know how I can tell you really hate that Zimmerman has been arrested? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3734 "2012-04-12T00:18:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Zimmerman is arrested and will be charged. > > Well, at least the riots are on hold for awhile. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have turned this into a very danger powder keg. > > I’m actually glad he’s being charged. I don’t think there’s any chance he’ll be convicted. But at least the trial will make the blacks happy. No one has to die in the riots this week. > > I am concerned Sharpton and Jackson will keep fanning the hate speech. We may see Rodney King style rioting and looting after Zimmerman is found not guilty. > > I hope not. I’ve lived through enough riots, beatings and lootings for one life time. My first was Watts in 1965. I was only 4 years old and still remember the burning buildings on the news. Sharpton and Jackson were merely pushing for the investigation to proceed and charges to be filed, as opposed to the original investigation which consisted of “self-defense? Olly olly oxen free!” It would be nice if the trial was televised so that we can all see the evidence and have some idea whether or not the verdict is fair. To accuse Sharpton and Jackson of hate speech is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3735 "2012-04-12T00:18:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Al Sharpton has been calling for civil unrest for over two weeks. The new black panther party put a bounty on Zimmerman’s head. > > Of course the prosecutor will press charges. Its the only way to prevent riots and looting. > > I’ve been expecting this arrest for two weeks. Are peaceful protests “civil unrest”? If not, please cite where he’s called for anything else? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3736 "2012-04-12T00:23:23Z")
He’s threatening to escalate. How long will it stay peaceful? There’s already reports of White supremacists coming into that area. You got the new black panthers. This is a powder keg just like Rodney King in LA. At best Sharpton is naive if he thinks fanning this fire won’t result in riots. At worst he’s an agitator that needs to be charged for what happens. > [@](#): > > If George Zimmerman is not arrested in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin soon, theRev. Al Sharpton will call for an escalation in peaceful civil disobedience and economic sanctions. > > Sharpton would not say the efforts would be taken against the city of Sanford specifically, but he has been critical of the police department’s handling of the case. [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-george-zimmerman-trayvon-al-sharpton-20120330\_1\_civil-disobedience-national-action-network-national-association](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-george-zimmerman-trayvon-al-sharpton-20120330_1_civil-disobedience-national-action-network-national-association) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3737 "2012-04-12T00:24:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Of course the prosecutor will press charges. Its the only way to prevent riots and looting. Because that is the job of a prosecutor? Nothing like the sound of low expectations. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3738 "2012-04-12T00:25:23Z")
Will someone tell me when we can STOP being afraid of rioting blacks? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3739 "2012-04-12T00:26:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > To accuse Sharpton and Jackson of hate speech is ludicrous. Sharpton made a pretty nice speech right after the prosecutor’s press conference. He said, essentially, that although he was admittedly skeptical of the Florida governor’s commitment to justice in this case, he was happy to have been proven wrong by today’s developments. He said that although he would never claim that the authorities were pressured into arresting Zimmerman by the publicity he and others brought to the case, he believes that they were at least pressured into taking a second and more thorough look into the case. And he said that this was not a time for high fives or gloating, because there were no winners here. The Martins have still lost their son. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3740 "2012-04-12T00:27:02Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Like I said earlier, unless there is some shocking big reveal, we have a witness who saw Martin beating Zimmerman and Zimmerman had wounds consistent with being beat up. Even if Zimmerman started the fight, there’s no real way to pin a murder charge on him. Did you see the EMT report while the rest of us have not? I strongly suspect this record comes no where close to backing up Zimmermans claims of a broken nose and battered head. Without that, all you have is Zimmerman word and one witness who saw a scuffle in the dark. I can’t wait to see what comes out in the trial. We have a homicide detective and a prosecutor who saw the evidence and concluded that Zimmerman acted unlawfully. I don’t know why you’re continuing to put any credence in Zimmermans version of events, but you’re fast becoming one of the few people on the planet doing so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=186) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=188)