# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 200
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3981 "2012-04-13T21:37:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Stopping and hiding are not the same. He could stop without hiding. He could also maintain the phone call without talking temporarily. If he had simply stopped then Zimmerman would have seen him. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3982 "2012-04-13T21:45:02Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Absolutely agree. > > I’m a little confused by this part. I Zimmerman believed his life was in danger, then is seems to reason that Martin was doing something. I disagree. Zimmerman was paranoid about the kid, which means if Martin had even so much as scratched his own nose, it could have caused Zimmerman to overreact. We should stop assuming that Zimmerman sees the world the same way a regular person would. I mean, look at what set off the whole epidsode. He suspected this kid of being up to no good despite being able to cite only the vaguest of vague reasons for this impression. In response to these ill-defined suspicious, he called _emergency_ services. Even though the kid hadn’t committed any crimes. Even though no one was in any immediate danger. How long had he even been watching Martin before he reached for the phone and called 911? Maybe a few minutes, tops? And yet that was enough time for Zimmerman to go in high alert mode. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3983 "2012-04-13T21:47:52Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If he had simply stopped then Zimmerman would have seen him. You don’t know that. GZ said to the 911 operator that he had lost TM. TM told his girlfriend he stopped to get out of the rain at least once, he may have ducked under an awning and GZ missed him in the dark. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3984 "2012-04-13T21:52:02Z")
I believe Zimmerman called police on the non-emergency number, not 911. [Link:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Phone_recordings) > [@](#): > > Zimmerman called the Sanford Police Department police at the non-emergency number ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3985 "2012-04-13T22:07:10Z")
> [@newme](#): > > I believe Zimmerman called police on the non-emergency number, not 911. > > [Link:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin#Phone_recordings) This Wikipedia link references a huffpost article for this assertion. If you follow the cite, the actual article agrees with all other reports that I’ve seen, in that he dialed 911. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3986 "2012-04-13T22:07:22Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > He suspected this kid of being up to no good despite being able to cite only the vaguest of vague reasons for this impression. In response to these ill-defined suspicious, he called _emergency_ services. Even though the kid hadn’t committed any crimes. Even though no one was in any immediate danger. How long had he even been watching Martin before he reached for the phone and called 911? Maybe a few minutes, tops? And yet that was enough time for Zimmerman to go in high alert mode. I don’t know how much I can fault him for that. My neighborhood had a problem with drug dealing a few years back. The local PD asked us to report any suspicious\* activity. They gave us a number to dispatch that was just for our neighborhood. I called on several occasions, and I wouldn’t be surprised if one or two of my calls turned out to just be someone’s Aunt Mildred and her husband a little bit lost. The good news is, nobody died over it, and we no longer have a problem with drugs being dealt in the neighborhood. \*unfamiliar vehicles “cruising” the neighborhood. Unfamiliar cars parked for periods of time with the occupants inside. Unfamiliar foot traffic that didn’t seem purposful. Loitering. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3987 "2012-04-13T22:31:20Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face;14963980 I mean, look at what set off the whole epidsode. He suspected this kid of being up to no good despite being able to cite only the vaguest of vague reasons for this impression. In response to these ill-defined suspicious, he called _emergency_ services. Even though the kid hadn’t committed any crimes. Even though no one was in any immediate danger. How long had he even been watching Martin before he reached for the phone and called 911? Maybe a few minutes, tops? And yet that was enough time for Zimmerman to go in high alert mode.[/QUOTE] These are the instructions in the[Sanford PD Neighborhood Watch Manual](http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/NWProgramHandbook.pdf) and what Zimmerman told police at the _non-emergency number_: > [@](#): > > Time is critical in apprehension. When you see or hear something suspicious, call the Police Department immediately. > > **What is suspicious and when do you call the police?** > > Suspicious activity is anything that looks like it could be connected with criminal behavior behavior -\*\* someone casing a neighborhood,\*\*… > > The following is a list of suspicious activities and the criminal activity that might be > happening: > > [ul] > li for an extended or unusual period of time. Possible burglary,…[/li] > [li]Behaving strangely. Possibly on drugs or illegal activity.[/li] > [li]With any sort of weapon(s). Possibly planning any number of crimes.[/li] > [li]Carrying, concealing or transporting anything unusual. Possible burglar carrying stolen property.[/li][/ul] > \* > Zimmerman: Hey we’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there’s a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. > …he was just staring… > > Dispatcher: OK, he’s just walking around the area… > > Zimmerman: …looking at all the houses. > > Zimmerman: He’s got his hand in his waistband. > > Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he’s coming to check me out, he’s got something in his hands, I don’t know what his deal is.\* We didn’t see how Martin looked when Zimmerman saw him, so we don’t know if Zim was being a busybody or a good Neighbor Watcher. Zimmerman’s “asshole” and “punk” comments don’t reflect well on him, however. We do know Zimmerman didn’t read all of the manual though: > [@](#): > > 10.Remember always that your > responsibility is to report crime. **Do > not take any risks to prevent a > crime or try to make an arrest. > The responsibility for > apprehending criminals belongs > to the police department.** ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3988 "2012-04-13T22:41:42Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Maybe. We know Martin was talking on the phone, which seems like a poor idea when you are trying to hide. There are reports about that conversation, and none of them suggest that Martin was hiding. It also wasn’t claimed by the prosecutor. I would think she would have if she had an indication of that, as it would help her case tremendously. No it wouldn’t. She is claiming that Zimmerman confronted Martin. If they met accidentally, then that damages her case. The fact is that Zimmerman would have never overtaken Martin if he had kept going. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3989 "2012-04-13T23:13:32Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If he had simply stopped then Zimmerman would have seen him. Not really. It was dark and there was plenty of places where Martin could stop and with dark clothing, Martin would have been practically invisible. Check out this picture of the area and imagine it at night. [http://media.syracuse.com/post-standard/photo/2012/03/10743612-standard.jpg](http://media.syracuse.com/post-standard/photo/2012/03/10743612-standard.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3990 "2012-04-13T23:15:01Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > No it wouldn’t. She is claiming that Zimmerman confronted Martin. If they met accidentally, then that damages her case. The fact is that Zimmerman would have never overtaken Martin if he had kept going. You don’t see the problem with that? If Martin keeps going he’s home and they never meet. She has to have an explanation why Martin doesn’t keep going. Otherwise, the defense is to going to present the “Martin doubled back to confront Zimmerman” scenario, and she doesn’t have anything to refute it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3991 "2012-04-13T23:25:48Z")
> [@treis](#): > > You don’t see the problem with that? If Martin keeps going he’s home and they never meet. She has to have an explanation why Martin doesn’t keep going. Otherwise, the defense is to going to present the “Martin doubled back to confront Zimmerman” scenario, and she doesn’t have anything to refute it. Not without putting GZ on the stand. What is the liklihood of that? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3992 "2012-04-13T23:38:28Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Not without putting GZ on the stand. What is the liklihood of that? He doesn’t have to go to the stand for the defense attorney to present an alternate theory. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3993 "2012-04-13T23:44:09Z")
> [@treis](#): > > He doesn’t have to go to the stand for the defense attorney to present an alternate theory. Attorneys cannot testify in court. They have to call a witness. Who would you suggest that could support this alternate theory? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3994 "2012-04-13T23:46:42Z")
> [@newme](#): > > These are the instructions in the[Sanford PD Neighborhood Watch Manual](http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/NWProgramHandbook.pdf) and what Zimmerman told police at the _non-emergency number_: It was the emergency number. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3995 "2012-04-13T23:50:51Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > This Wikipedia link references a huffpost article for this assertion. If you follow the cite, the actual article agrees with all other reports that I’ve seen, in that he dialed 911. [Zimmerman’s call](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html) begins with the dispatcher saying: > [@](#): > > Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. [All the other calls begin](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/trayvon-martin-911-audio-_n_1354909.html?ref=mostpopular) > [@](#): > > Dispatcher: 911 Do you need police , fire, or medical? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3996 "2012-04-13T23:59:14Z")
> [@treis](#): > > You don’t see the problem with that? If Martin keeps going he’s home and they never meet. She has to have an explanation why Martin doesn’t keep going. Otherwise, the defense is to going to present the “Martin doubled back to confront Zimmerman” scenario, and she doesn’t have anything to refute it. Unfortunately its a case of he said, he dead. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3997 "2012-04-14T00:00:23Z")
Zimmerman probably had the non-emergency number on speed dial. > **[Trayvon Martin Shooter Zimmerman's Audio Tapes Show Calm](https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/04/trayvon-martin-shooter-zimmermans-911-audio-tapes/)** > > Get breaking national and world news, broadcast video coverage, and exclusive interviews. Find the top news online at ABC news. > [@](#): > > Since August 2011, Zimmerman has called in to a non-emergency police line > seven times, according to documents released by the Sanford Police Department. Of those calls, five were made to report a “suspicious person.” ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3998 "2012-04-14T00:07:31Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Because there is a time gap of IIRC 2-4 minutes between the time Martin first runs and when the confrontation occurs. In order for the confrontation to happen when it happened, Martin either needs to double back or stop. > > There’s not much evidence at all regarding what Martin did in the 2-4 minutes we have between him running and the confrontation. How do you come up with this? I’m not saying your wrong, I just don’t see how you arrive at it. All the other comments seem to be adding in things that we dont’ really have any record of, if I recall correctly. Would you or someone else please tie all the parts we HAVE together to show that this is an accurate assessment? As far as I can recall offhand, the only thing we know for sure comes from the 911 calls. Are you working from the exact time of GZ’s call and the other calls to find this gap and make these conclusions? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/3999 "2012-04-14T00:20:37Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > How do you come up with this? I’m not saying your wrong, I just don’t see how you arrive at it. All the other comments seem to be adding in things that we dont’ really have any record of, if I recall correctly. Would you or someone else please tie all the parts we HAVE together to show that this is an accurate assessment? > > As far as I can recall offhand, the only thing we know for sure comes from the 911 calls. Are you working from the exact time of GZ’s call and the other calls to find this gap and make these conclusions? Something else? This is from my earlier[post #3154](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14934406&postcount=3154): This [CNN article](http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/911-calls-paint-picture-of-chaos-after-florida-teen-is-shot/) places the first two 911 calls being placed at 7:16 pm. The shot is heard 45 seconds into the first call and 15 seconds into the second call. That puts the gunshot occurring at 19:17:00, plus or minus 15 seconds. 19:09:34 GZ calls police. 19:11:41 GZ says TM running. GZ gets out and follows. 19:12:?? TM receives call from girlfriend. This call lasts “about 4 minutes.” 19:13:37 GZ call to police ends. 19:16:15 (+/- 15 seconds) First 911 call on which screams and calls for help are heard. 19:17:00 (+/- 15 seconds) Gunshot 19:17:11 Officer Smith arrives “on scene.” On scene may mean pulling into the neighborhood or getting out of his car. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4000 "2012-04-14T00:22:48Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Attorneys cannot testify in court. They have to call a witness. Who would you suggest that could support this alternate theory? One of the attorneys in the Scopes Monkey Trial (William Jennings Bryan–also perennial Presidential candidate loser) actually was called by the opposition counsel as an expert witness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=199) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=201)