# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 201
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4001 "2012-04-14T00:26:08Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There is no evidence that Martin doubled back, and you have no way of knowing what his state of mind was. Well that’s not entirely true. One witness said she heard them arguing. Words of some kind were exchanged in what was perceived as a heated argument with older man being the louder of the 2. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4002 "2012-04-14T00:31:36Z")
What’s the source for this part: > [@newme](#): > > 19:12:?? TM receives call from girlfriend. This call lasts “about 4 minutes.” ?? It seems pretty crucial, since that call ended seconds after they encounter each other. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4003 "2012-04-14T00:33:50Z")
> [@newme](#): > > [Zimmerman’s call](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html) begins with the dispatcher saying: > > [All the other calls begin](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/trayvon-martin-911-audio-_n_1354909.html?ref=mostpopular) From your own cite: > [@](#): > > “This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something,” Zimmerman **tells the 911 operator**. “He’s just staring, looking at all the houses. Now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hand in his waistband. Something’s wrong with him.” ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4004 "2012-04-14T00:35:47Z")
Wow, seriously… if that call started at 12 minutes after exactly, and lasted almost 4 minutes, then we’re supposed to believe that in the space of less than a single minute GZ was put in a position to have a legitimate fear of death by an unarmed guy? Less than a minute’s worth of altercation and he’s at “I have no choice but to kill him”? Was Trayvon some kind of ninja? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4005 "2012-04-14T00:41:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well that’s not entirely true. One witness said she heard them arguing. Words of some kind were exchanged in what was perceived as a heated argument with older man being the louder of the 2. When I said “state of mind” I was addressing the claim that TM had the intent of confronting GZ. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4006 "2012-04-14T00:44:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > From your own cite: How about I quote Chief Lee: > [@](#): > > “Those 911 calls and non-emergency call Mr. Zimmerman made are part of our active investigation,” said Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee. [FOX 35 Orlando | Local News, Weather, and Live Streams | WOFL](http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/030812-family-of-slain-teen-want-answers#ixzz1ryGBjVhq) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4007 "2012-04-14T01:01:23Z")
> [@newme](#): > > How about I quote Chief Lee: > > [FOX 35 Orlando | Local News, Weather, and Live Streams | WOFL](http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/030812-family-of-slain-teen-want-answers#ixzz1ryGBjVhq) OK, I’ve found quite a few references to the call as a 911 call, and a few that refer to is as a non-emergency number call. Which is it, and how do you know? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4008 "2012-04-14T01:02:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Attorneys cannot testify in court. They have to call a witness. Who would you suggest that could support this alternate theory? Uh, you’ve heard of opening and closing arguments, right? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4009 "2012-04-14T01:03:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK, I’ve found quite a few references to the call as a 911 call, and a few that refer to is as a non-emergency number call. > > Which is it, and how do you know? Did you not just quote him quoting the Sanford Chief of Police saying it was a non-emergency call, or am I imagining things again? ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4010 "2012-04-14T01:04:48Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > What’s the source for this part: > > ?? > > It seems pretty crucial, since that call ended seconds after they encounter each other. A picture of [Trayvon Martin’s phone record](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=martin+zimmerman+girlfriend&start=108&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=RCD&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1024&bih=648&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsuo&tbnid=qloR1DvwJjGnTM:&imgrefurl=http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/29/why-hasnt-george-zimmerman-been-arrested/&docid=MYSSyW2FsyN86M&imgurl=http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/T-Mobile-Phone-Records-of-Call-with-Girlfriend1.jpg&w=413&h=310&ei=qMyIT67XEYegsgLZr5myCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=109&vpy=186&dur=85&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=149&ty=106&sig=105694619992133937869&page=7&tbnh=132&tbnw=196&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:108,i:85) shows an incoming call at 7:12 pm. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4011 "2012-04-14T01:09:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK, I’ve found quite a few references to the call as a 911 call, and a few that refer to is as a non-emergency number call. > > Which is it, and how do you know? I googled [“martin zimmerman police non-emergency”](http://www.google.com/search?q=martin+zimmerman+police+non-emergency&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=martin+zimmerman+police+non-emergency&oq=martin+zimmerman+police+non-emergency&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=serp.12...0l0l0l11728269l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0.frgbld.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=3226d37ade666d03&biw=1024&bih=648) and got 588,00 hits. I will not cite them all. Here is another: [http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/george-zimmermans-evolving-story.php](http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/george-zimmermans-evolving-story.php) > [@](#): > > Zimmerman called police from his vehicle on the night of February 26th, dialing a non-emergency number that presumably, he got by being a neighborhood watch captain (the number is not 911, but you can look it up online on the Sanford police department’s website.) I can only guess sloppy reporting resulted in it being called a “911 call” in other cases. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4012 "2012-04-14T01:23:34Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Uh, you’ve heard of opening and closing arguments, right? Sure. That’s where defense counsel floats all their unfounded hunches, and hopes the jury doesn’t notice they neglected to supply any supporting testimony. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4013 "2012-04-14T01:30:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK, I’ve found quite a few references to the call as a 911 call, and a few that refer to is as a non-emergency number call. > > Which is it, and how do you know? My understanding is that while there are two numbers, they are answered by the same pool of personnel in Sanford. I forget where I came across that info. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4014 "2012-04-14T01:36:30Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t get speculation like this. Zimmerman makes mention of the fact that Martin has a button on his shirt, but the fact that Zimmerman thinks Martin is armed doesn’t warrant a mention? Again I didn’t say that Z thought M was armed. > [@treis](#): > > Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You don’t get it anyway. I’d agree with that. But I can’t agree with your statement as posted. > [@treis](#): > > It’s just searching for the slightest thing to support your argument. Which was what exactly? It’s merely incidental to the post in question which I expect you don’t remember. It’s not something that I would use the word “support” to describe. But I have learned that words have many varied meanings depending on whose mouth they’re coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4015 "2012-04-14T01:54:16Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Uh, you’ve heard of opening and closing arguments, right? Are you saying that attorney’s arguments are testimony, or is someone else making that mistake? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4016 "2012-04-14T01:56:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Sure. That’s where defense counsel floats all their unfounded hunches, and hopes the jury doesn’t notice they neglected to supply any supporting testimony. Assuming neither the judge or the opposing counsel stop them. There’s limits to what they can say… ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4017 "2012-04-14T02:08:59Z")
> [@treis](#): > > You don’t see the problem with that? If Martin keeps going he’s home and they never meet. She has to have an explanation why Martin doesn’t keep going. Otherwise, the defense is to going to present the “Martin doubled back to confront Zimmerman” scenario, and she doesn’t have anything to refute it. Of course, I see the problem with that, but what I see is an Attorney who got an arrest warrant and didn’t have disclose anything that wasn’t already public. I regard the affidavit as a disposable document. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4018 "2012-04-14T02:24:37Z")
I highly recommend that anyone interested in the timeline of the shooting read this article: > **[Minute-by-Minute Timeline of Trayvon Martin’s Death](https://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/)** > > \[Update, 7/5/13: For updated material concerning the ongoing trial of George Zimmerman, please see more recent posts concerning the undisputed facts at the conclusion of the prosecution’s cas… She has everything laid out down to the second. It has to be correct because it agrees with my timeline. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4019 "2012-04-14T02:25:05Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Of course, I see the problem with that, but what I see is an Attorney who got an arrest warrant and didn’t have disclose anything that wasn’t already public. I regard the affidavit as a disposable document. From what some reporters claimed, that very brief hearing was for the prosecution to establish probable cause for arrest to a judge. I would say that makes the affidavit far more than “disposable”. In fact, I find it remarkable the judge agreed there was in fact probable cause without a single word or question about the issue spoken aloud in court. It’s especially telling IMO that the Sanford police have continually maintained they could not establish probable cause since day 1. Since we can all agree (i think) that there were no significant new revelations in it, that makes the Sanford PD a bunch of dipshits, at least as far as whoever ultimately made that call. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4020 "2012-04-14T02:26:24Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > From what some reporters claimed, that very brief hearing was for the prosecution to establish probable cause for arrest to a judge. I would say that makes the affidavit far more than “disposable”. In fact, I find it remarkable the judge agreed there was in fact probable cause without a single word or question about the issue spoken aloud in court. It’s especially telling IMO that the Sanford police have continually maintained they could not establish probable cause since day 1. Since we can all agree (i think) that there were no significant new revelations in it, that makes the Sanford PD a bunch of dipshits, at least as far as whoever ultimately made that call. Actually my understanding is probable cause hearings are almost a formality and judges almost never end a case there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=200) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=202)