# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 205
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4081 "2012-04-15T00:13:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I gurantee you the EMT report will show his nose was not broken, and there was no bleeding from the back of his head. Did Zimmerman claim his nose was broken? Link? As for bleeding from the back of his head - I tend to think that if the police officer says there was bleeding from the back of his head, in the official police report, there was bleeding from the back of his head. Care to make a wager? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4082 "2012-04-15T00:26:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I gurantee you the EMT report will show his nose was not broken, and there was no bleeding from the back of his head. I take no position on the nose, but I’ll bet you $200 that the EMTs report says there was bleeding on the back of Zimmerman’s head. Do we have a bet? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4083 "2012-04-15T00:28:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But it does require a preponderance of the evidence. If the EMT report contradicts his claim of a bloody nose and a head wound, his attorney will not assert those claims, I guarantee you. yep. but it was already reported by the police per earlier reports. Doesn’t require a neurosurgeon’s signoff that he was in a fight. Do you think Martin was tickling Zimmerman when he was reportedly on top? The case for him being in a fight has already been made and documented at the time it occurred as well as sustained injuries visible days later. All Zimmerman’s defense has to establish is that a fight took place where his head was pummeled. His assailant was a 6’3" football player used to knocking people down. To the extent that Martin’s character is allowed in court they will show him to be a kid on suspension from school for drugs who projects himself like a gangsta wanna be right down to sporting a gold grill. We know from Zimmerman’s phone call that Martin approached him. We know from Martin’s girl friend’s phone call that Martin started the conversation. All we know from Zimmerman is that he followed Martin which is a passive act in comparison to Martin’s active approach and verbal engagement of Zimmerman. While it doesn’t prove or disprove who swung first it implies that Martin was more proactive in the confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4084 "2012-04-15T00:32:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I take no position on the nose, but I’ll bet you $200 that the EMTs report says there was bleeding on the back of Zimmerman’s head. > > Do we have a bet? Doesn’t matter what the EMT report says. It’s not their job to document legal matters. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4085 "2012-04-15T00:38:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > We know from Zimmerman’s phone call that Martin approached him. We don’t know any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4086 "2012-04-15T00:39:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > From what we’ve seen, this shouldn’t be terribly difficult. Zimmerman set the bar high for himself by insisting that Martin inflicted serious injuries upon his nose and his head. > [@Magiver](#): > > No, Zimmerman only needs to show he was attacked in a manner that was life threatening. That does not equal serious external injuries when describing an attack against someone’s head. True, **Magiver** , except that since so much will likely turn on Zimmerman’s credibility, if the jury sees that his initial story was materially different than the sotry he tells at trial, the practical effect of that will likely be a finding of guilty. You’re right: he only needs to show that he reasonably feared for his life. But the only way he has to do that is through his testimony. If the jury hears that Zimmerman changed his story, he starts at the bottom of a very deep hole. Which, as an aside, is why I said waaaaay back when, about 2,000 posts ago: > [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t know. To answer that question, I’d have to know what was in Zimmerman’s statement to the police, and how – if at all-- these later statements contradicted Zimmerman’s statement. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4087 "2012-04-15T00:39:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I take no position on the nose, but I’ll bet you $200 that the EMTs report says there was bleeding on the back of Zimmerman’s head. > > Do we have a bet? No, we do not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4088 "2012-04-15T00:41:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Doesn’t matter what the EMT report says. It’s not their job to document legal matters. Yes. But it’s their job to document medical matters, and in fact there’s a statute that requires them to do so when the patient refuses medical attention. So if they didn’t, the jury can certainly draw the inference from that lack of documentation that there were no serious injuries to be found. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4089 "2012-04-15T00:41:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Doesn’t matter what the EMT report says. It’s not their job to document legal matters. It is significant evidence. If it contradicts GZ claim, it makes it less likely the court will agree with his claim. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4090 "2012-04-15T00:42:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I take no position on the nose, but I’ll bet you $200 that the EMTs report says there was bleeding on the back of Zimmerman’s head. > > Do we have a bet? > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No, we do not. But… but… what about your guarantee? > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I gurantee you the EMT report will show his nose was not broken, and there was no bleeding from the back of his head. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4091 "2012-04-15T00:46:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > We don’t know any such thing. He described it to the police. So yes. we know that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4092 "2012-04-15T00:46:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But… but… what about your guarantee? My guarantee still stands. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4093 "2012-04-15T00:46:45Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > **Stoid** , for the 87 millionth time, no-one has to prove that the killing was justified. What nits are you picking? If his claim of self-defense is determined to be truthful within the meaning of the law the killing was was justified. > [@Terr](#): > > Did Zimmerman claim his nose was broken? Link? > > As for bleeding from the back of his head - I tend to think that if the police officer says there was bleeding from the back of his head, in the official police report, there was bleeding from the back of his head. Care to make a wager? And again: how much? From where? Why? Did he pick a zit? there mere presence of blood is not proof of anything. It’s certainly suggestive of some kind of altercation, combined with other things, but it’s not proof. It’s something to present to the jury as a fact which lends credibility to Zimmerman’s claims. And if it was a tiny spot of blood with no other injury or bruise of any kind, with no clear definition of what caused it in the form of a goose egg, concussion or other evidence that his head was smashed into the ground, it doesn’t really do much to support the idea that he was facing terrifying violence forcing him to shoot Martin. For the 99 billionth time: details matter. > [@Magiver](#): > > All Zimmerman’s defense has to establish is that a fight took place where his head was pummeled. No, they have to establish that his head was pummeled at all. See the previous. Also see the facts regarding the grass on his shirt and the positioning of Trayvon’s body. Question Zimmerman about exactly how his head was being pounded into concrete vs. soft wet earth vs. not pounded at all given those facts. And the timing (all these things, ncluding teh contortions Zimmerman would have to claim to make it make sense, happened in a ridiculouly short period of time). And the screaming. And the witness statements that he was pressing on Trayvon’s back. Make all that work with a story about having his head pummeled into concrete so hard he nearly lost consciousness. If you think a spot of blood on the back of his head with no greater injury and no good explanation for everything else is sufficient, you are going to be facing other jurors who don’t feel quite so certain, I promise you. > [@](#): > > His assailant was a 6’3" football player Oh STOP with the “he was a football player” crap already, making it sound like he was Refrigerator Perry! He was a painfully thin high school kid who played football. > [@](#): > > To the extent that Martin’s character is allowed in court they will show him to be a kid on suspension from school for drugs who projects himself like a gangsta wanna be right down to sporting a gold grill. 😕😕😕 > [@](#): > > We know from Zimmerman’s phone call that Martin approached him. 😕😕😕😕😕 > [@](#): > > We know from Martin’s girl friend’s phone call that Martin started the conversation. All we know from Zimmerman is that he followed Martin which is a passive act in comparison to Martin’s active approach and verbal engagement of Zimmerman. :dubious::rolleyes:😕 > [@](#): > > While it doesn’t prove or disprove who swung first it implies that Martin was more proactive in the confrontation. To you, maybe. Whole lotta filling in going on there. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4094 "2012-04-15T00:47:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > He described it to the police. So yes. we know that. No, he didn’t describe Martin approaching him. So, no we don’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4095 "2012-04-15T00:49:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It is significant evidence. If it contradicts GZ claim, it makes it less likely the court will agree with his claim. not really. GZ’s claim is supported by the police who are in charge of (and trained) to respond to legal matters. Not listing something is not the same as saying it didn’t happen. The mere fact that they were called indicates some kind of physical trauma. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4096 "2012-04-15T00:50:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The mere fact that they were called indicates some kind of physical trauma. No it doesn’t. It just indicates good police work. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4097 "2012-04-15T00:53:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > My guarantee still stands. It’s not a “guarantee” if you’re not willing to back it up… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4098 "2012-04-15T00:57:53Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No it doesn’t. It just indicates good police work. And the good police who documented blood front and back of Zimmerman’s head called the EMT’s. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4099 "2012-04-15T01:00:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s not a “guarantee” if you’re not willing to back it up… I bet a thousand quatloos! ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4100 "2012-04-15T01:09:05Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There are actually two cases going on concurrently now in which the SYG defendant is less liked by society than the victim. The current case with Zimmerman, and also the Trevor Dooley case in which a black man shot and killed a white Iraq War veteran over a dispute about children skateboarding on a basketball court. (Parts of the narratives are very similar, Dooley is claiming James was on top of him when he fired, for example.) It looks to me like Dooley has a pretty good chance to get a acquittal, but I need to see more of the evidence. I get the feeling there was a prior history between Dooley and James. Did you notice another coincidence? The shooting happened at the Twin Lakes Subdivision. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=204) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=206)