# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 212
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4221 "2012-04-17T11:45:38Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > **you with the face** - you sure aren’t remembering the Duke case like I remember it. I remember the vast majority of the initial response to the case was very much [pro-prosecution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responses_to_the_2006_Duke_University_lacrosse_case), with the lacrosse players being vilifying as ‘entitled jocks’. Nope. She’s remembering accurately as far as **Bricker** is concerned. But one thing can’t be contested: never once did our dear lawyer scold anyone for jumping to conclusions during that case. It doesn’t matter that the stripper was a liar. No one knew this while this investigation was occurring. But that didn’t stop **Bricker** and his merry cast of crazies from calling the woman a “lying whore” from almost the very beginning. And using crime statistics to justify their skepticism. Here we have a story that sounds fishy on its face, and yet the same people who were quick with the “lying whore” accusation find it 100% plausible, breaking their backs to explain the weakest areas of the story. Like the missing bandage (_Oh, he took it off! That’s what macho guys do, even when their hands are cuffed and they are supposedly demanding urgent medical care!_) But a woman who says a group of drunken frat guys raped her is automatically a lying whore, because she’s black and they’re white, and white guys don’t dig the coloreds. Just do a google search on “Lying Whore” and you’ll see what I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4222 "2012-04-17T11:56:29Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > **you with the face** - you sure aren’t remembering the Duke case like I remember it. I remember the vast majority of the initial response to the case was very much [pro-prosecution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responses_to_the_2006_Duke_University_lacrosse_case), with the lacrosse players being vilifying as ‘entitled jocks’. I am talking specifically about **Bricker**. His silly “what if” refrain and insistence that we don’t know enough to reach any conclusions about Zimmermans guilt, very noticeably were absent in the Duke case. Then, he was a vocal advocate for letting spurious info (like race) influence the way he assessed the accuser’s claims. Then, he showed no restraint in making judgements about the investigators involved, even though his information sources came from the media…just the same as this case. But now, all of a sudden, we must engage in all kinds of creative mental gymnastics just so we can accept the possibility that Zimmman acted lawfully. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4223 "2012-04-17T12:48:18Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Just do a google search on “Lying Whore” and you’ll see what I’m talking about. > **[Google Search](http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Lying%2BWhore%22#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22Lying+Whore%22+site%3Aboards.straightdope.com&oq=%22Lying+Whore%22+site:boards.straightdope.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=serp.3...4901l12950l0l14029l29l29l0l0l0l2l1041l4183l23j1j0j2j1j1j0j1l29l0.&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=af73696fe4de10c7&biw=1690&bih=1132)** ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4224 "2012-04-17T12:56:43Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Care to remind us what other evidence you had that made you join the lying whore chorus? As I recall, she had evidence of injuries and a story that was consistent with these injuries. What else did you have to go on? > > Whatever it was, it certainly can’t compare in weight to a video that shows a spry, unbloody, unbandanged Zimmerman, a vague police report that mentions no specific wounds on his body, and a significant delay in the man getting himself to a hospital. None of this is consistent with a story of a man being brutally beaten. That you’re willing to bend over backwards to find ways to make his story square with these facts, even if it requires you to posit the most unlikely fanwanks to make it all fit, just confirms what is obvious to most people in this thread already. You are biased towards Zimmerman. Just own up to that. You are, I think, reading my posts through some heavily tinted glasses – glasses tinted with your own bias. I am happily proposing all sorts of theories. I notice you don’t mind (or, perhaps, even notice) when I do the same thing with theories that don’t help Zimmerman. Merely proposing a theory is intended to unseat you, and the people who are firmly in the “Zimmerman is innocent” camp, from their perches. Because I have said, and continue to say, that without Zimmerman’s statement, the autopsy report, the eyewitness statements – all of them – and the EMT report, any attempt to craft a story and say, “This is certainly what happened!” are ludicrous. So if you say, “This is certainly what happened,” my response is to craft a hypothetical and ask you why it couldn’t be true. Of course, your response to such challenges is to simply insist, over and over, that it couldn’t, no matter what evidence might support it. To answer your first question: My first post to the thread titled “Lying Whore,” was #182. It responded to another poster’s statement that false rape allegations were rare: > [@Lying whore.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/lying-whore/352153/182): > > Pretty rare? 8%, [according to the FBI](http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_97/96CRIME/96crime2.pdf). That’s compared to 2% for overall crime. My post went on to reply to another comment by the same poster, who expressed outrage that there was victim blaming going on; she said she had a friend who had been raped and was seeing a similar pattern. I replied: > [@](#): > > The woman in this case is getting ripped because the facts, as they emerge, do not seem to be supporting the story she initially told. Assuming your best friend didn’t change HER story, I fail to see what relevance your best friend’s rape has to this case. So my initial post to that thread showed that my disbelief at that point had to do with contradictory factual elements in her story, and had nothing to do with her race. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4225 "2012-04-17T12:58:22Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Nope. She’s remembering accurately as far as **Bricker** is concerned. But one thing can’t be contested: never once did our dear lawyer scold anyone for jumping to conclusions during that case. It doesn’t matter that the stripper was a liar. No one knew this while this investigation was occurring. But that didn’t stop **Bricker** and his merry cast of crazies from calling the woman a “lying whore” from almost the very beginning. And using crime statistics to justify their skepticism. Here we have a story that sounds fishy on its face, and yet the same people who were quick with the “lying whore” accusation find it 100% plausible, breaking their backs to explain the weakest areas of the story. Like the missing bandage (_Oh, he took it off! That’s what macho guys do, even when their hands are cuffed and they are supposedly demanding urgent medical care!_) > > But a woman who says a group of drunken frat guys raped her is automatically a lying whore, because she’s black and they’re white, and white guys don’t dig the coloreds. > > Just do a google search on “Lying Whore” and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Actually, I’ve linked to my first post in that thread, above, and it doesn’t seem to track with what you’re saying I did. How do you explain that? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4226 "2012-04-17T13:00:46Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The fact that you would even entertain that assinine opinion AT ALL shows that you were biased. Garbage like that doesn’t belong in any kind of analysis, no matter how many disclaimers you want to throw out. Why not? You keep asserting this, but I still don’t understand why it’s true. If 8% of all rape allegations are false, it seems obvious to me that if we know nothing else about a particular rape allegation, there’s an 8% chance it’s false. Why is that wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4227 "2012-04-17T13:01:55Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > GZ outweighed Martin by a pretty good margin; it would take a \*seriously \*strong punch to put him to the ground with one blow - and remember; GZ was already in a state of high alert.. What margin was that? ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4228 "2012-04-17T13:08:25Z")
I don’t know who argued what in another thread; I’m not even willing to wade back through this one to find out how each and every individual stands on each and every aspect of this case. What I do know is that you all continue to wander off the topic of arguing about the case and what we know about it, and start attacking one another’s opinions based on biases, either real or perceived. Argue this all you like. Question one another’s beliefs. But stay away from direct attacks on the person (“you only think X because you’re Y”). Otherwise I’m going to have to shut down the thread if all it has become is three or four people going around and around the same old bush. Maybe a new thread with a new premise would give people a fresh perspective? I’m open to ideas. Ellen ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4229 "2012-04-17T13:12:04Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I… Otherwise I’m going to have to shut down the thread … Promise? This thread has been through more cycles than a full day of laundry. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4230 "2012-04-17T13:13:05Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Supposedly he claims that he wanted to go to the hospital but the police wouldn’t let him. Do you have a cite for this? I thought Zimmerman refused treatment. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4231 "2012-04-17T13:54:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So if you say, “This is certainly what happened,” my response is to craft a hypothetical and ask you why it couldn’t be true. But I’ve never said anything remotely like “This is certainly what happened”. If you’re going to create strawman, please be slicker than this. The main people in this thread posting absolute statements are those who, very conveniently, you’re not hounding. Like **treis** who has repeatedly made matter-of-fact declarations like “There wasn’t any medical reason for him to go to the hospital.” He didn’t even bother putting an “if” clause in there, and yet instead of challenging him on this you attack _me_ me when I dismissed his sureity sarcastically. > [@](#): > > My first post to the thread titled “Lying Whore,” was #182. It responded to another poster’s statement that false rape allegations were rare: This doesn’t answer my question. What information did you have to support your belief that the accuser was lying, other than her race and misinterpreted crime statistics? What evidence that saw the light of day supported your view that the lacrosse players were innocent? Medical records? Witness statements? A history of making false reports? What? You certainly don’t want to go down the road of copying and pasting posts from that trainwreck (and its spin offs), if you want folks to keep on seeing you as a legal expert who is adept at analyzing facts in a logical and fair-minded way. I was actually being kind to you by not posting any links to that thread, and then here you go and did it yourself. Oh well. Hope that works out well for you. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4232 "2012-04-17T13:59:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? I thought Zimmerman refused treatment. > > Regards, > Shodan > **[StockExaminer - AI-Powered Stock Chatbot](https://examiner.com)** > > Discover Stock Examiner, the AI-powered chatbot delivering instant, interactive stock charts, real-time financials, breaking news, stock screeners, and more—all in one seamless experience. I posted about this several pages ago, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4233 "2012-04-17T14:06:45Z")
Looks like Zimmerman’s attorneys are moving the judge be removed. I think that’s a pretty good move in this case, the judge probably should have just gone ahead and recused herself. Her husband is taking money to talk about the case on national TV, there is too much potential impropriety in such a scenario. If the judge talks about confidential case details to her husband, she basically can directly enrich herself (through his earnings) by doing so, and that’s not a situation I want any judge being in–even if the judge’s integrity is itself unquestioned. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4234 "2012-04-17T14:40:15Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > People, including Zimmerman, can’t have it both ways. Supposedly he claims that he wanted to go to the hospital but the police wouldn’t let him. > [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a cite for this? I thought Zimmerman refused treatment. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > [StockExaminer - AI-Powered Stock Chatbot](http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/george-zimmerman-doesn-t-appear-bloody-injured-on-police-surveillance-video) > > I posted about this several pages ago, by the way. Your cite says that Zimmerman’s attorney made that claim. Was this the same attorney that no longer works for Zimmerman? Is that who you meant when you said “He claims?” The “he” in that sentence was the attorney, not Zimmerman? ETA: you did say “supposedly,” which I appreciate. I’m not being censorious, just clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4235 "2012-04-17T15:15:57Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > [StockExaminer - AI-Powered Stock Chatbot](http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/george-zimmerman-doesn-t-appear-bloody-injured-on-police-surveillance-video) > > I posted about this several pages ago, by the way. Thanks to **Bricker** for the clarification - **monstro** meant to say that “Zimmerman’s former attorney said it”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4236 "2012-04-17T15:41:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why not? You keep asserting this, but I still don’t understand why it’s true. > > If 8% of all rape allegations are false, it seems obvious to me that if we know nothing else about a particular rape allegation, there’s an 8% chance it’s false. Why is that wrong? Discussion of this [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=648666). ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4237 "2012-04-17T15:52:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The main people in this thread posting absolute statements are those who, very conveniently, you’re not hounding. **Bricker** didn’t hound me. I took that to mean that my postulation while speculative, fit with the known facts and was reasonably plausible. You tend to be more dramatic and bombastic in your posts. It makes it hard for anyone on either side of the issue to engage you in any manner. Anything short of complete agreement with your speculation is meet with dismissal, derision, or condemnation. I think you and I are on the same side, yet you have treated me almost the same as you have treated Bricker when I questioned the likelihood of something you postulated. It seems you are intent to make this case (and this thread) into something more than justice being served. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4238 "2012-04-17T16:03:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Thanks to **Bricker** for the clarification - **monstro** meant to say that “Zimmerman’s former attorney said it”. > > Regards, > Shodan More accurately, Zimmerman’s attorney said it. I believe at the time he said it, he was not yet Zimmerman’s “former” attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4239 "2012-04-17T16:06:58Z")
Would you say I’ve “hounded” you, **Boyo Jim**? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/4240 "2012-04-17T16:09:21Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > **Bricker** didn’t hound me. I took that to mean that my postulation while speculative, fit with the known facts and was reasonably plausible. And that’s not a self-serving conclusion at all, no sir. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=211) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=213)