# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/441 "2012-03-17T17:51:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > There are a lot of opinions out there. Since not even lawyers can seem to agree on what the Fl statutes allow, I’m not convinced that conviction would be so difficult. Funny how cops are allowed discretion, prosecutors are allowed discretion, but juries aren’t allowed to weigh in on this and excercise their discretion because the others’ discretion have gotten in the way. > > One of the 911 witnesses said that a guy in a white tee shirt was on top of the other guy during the fight. That contradicts the idea that Martin, who was wearing a dark hoodie, was wailing on a supine Zimmerman as was claimed. Funny how this apparently isn’t enough to disprove self defense, and neither is Zimmermans 911 call. Neither did Martins screams for help and mercy. So what exactly would disprove it if this is insufficient? That’s all the people want to know right now. > > I’m not claiming to be 100% right about the legal situation. But I do know fuckedupness when I see it. But all of those things you just said are open to interpretation. I listened to the call where it said Zimmerman was on top. I can’t tell if that call was made before or after Martin was dead, and if the witness saw Zimmerman on top of Martin before or after he was dead. If it was after the shooting, it isn’t evidence of anything. If Zimmerman shot Martin in self defense but then tried CPR or something (I have read one article that says he may have) that would explain that scenario. I know Martin’s family lawyer is saying he was screaming for help, I heard the screaming in one of the tapes and if you really believe that is Martin or think **anyone** could make out who was screaming you have far better ears than me. It sounds like an animal screaming for all I know, I don’t even know that I would recognize a close family member on that tape, making those sounds. I keep arguing counter-points not because I believe them one way or the other, but just to illustrate nothing in this case is as simple and straight forward as you believe. You may know fucked-upness when you see it, but I find it strange a former Federal prosecutor and (apparently) the prosecutors in Florida think this is a shaky case against Zimmerman, with a SYG statute or not. I think that suggests to me you may be believing things about the legal situation that aren’t true, in essence you want things to be a certain way, but things aren’t that way. I can understand that, but our law enforcement officials in this country have to respect the way things are, not how we might want them to be. I notice that while you accuse some people of giving Zimmerman’s account and the evidence undue weight in favor of Zimmerman, you’re always presenting the evidence as absolute condemnation of Zimmerman. In a criminal trial the system actually _starts out_ massively tilted towards the defendant. On any questionable piece of evidence (like a difficult to interpret scream on a 911 tape) all it takes is one juror who doesn’t buy the prosecutor’s argument and you’re looking at a hung jury. That’s why prosecutors love evidence that they can soundly represent in one way, and which any counter-points are mostly seen as weak and ineffectual by the jury. The evidence we’ve seen so far in this case isn’t evidence like that, it’s more like the kind of evidence anyone could interpret anyway, and if you throw a bunch of that at a jury you have no real confidence of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/442 "2012-03-17T17:53:40Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > While it’s obvious that a prosecutor shouldn’t be expected to pursue a case s/he doesn’t deem winnable, you’re still ignoring the point I made above that prosecutors’ offices are political operations just as any other government office is. Their actions aren’t governed solely by some kind of abstract, mechanical “expert legal opinion,” that is immune from the reality of political context or influence. Which is not to say that that is the case here–just that you should realize that that’s part of this discussion. The implication is that perhaps the prosecutor would in fact consider the case winnable “in theory,” but decides not to pursue it for other reasons. Actually I have already said in this thread I think the political ramifications of this case will impact how the State’s Attorney decides to go forward. FWIW to me that just argues more for a prosecutor system like they have in Canada, where at no level of the government are prosecutors politicians, they are all civil servants removed from public outrage. A prosecutor isn’t supposed to be a victim’s advocate or an enemy of the suspect, a prosecutor (unlike a defense attorney) has an obligation to do the right thing for society at large, which sometimes means they won’t pursue a case against someone who they think isn’t guilty, or they won’t use the limited resources of the public against a case they do not believe they can win. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/443 "2012-03-17T18:02:31Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > But all of those things you just said are open to interpretation. I listened to the call where it said Zimmerman was on top. I can’t tell if that call was made before or after Martin was dead, and if the witness saw Zimmerman on top of Martin before or after he was dead. Listen to it again. She says when she first saw them out there (before she heard the screams), the guy in the t-shirt was on top. So it had to have been before the shooting. > [@](#): > > If it was after the shooting, it isn’t evidence of anything. If Zimmerman shot Martin in self defense but then tried CPR or something (I have read one article that says he may have) that would explain that scenario. And if it was before? What are we allowed to think then? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/444 "2012-03-17T18:07:06Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Listen to it again. She says when she first saw them out there (before she heard the screams), the guy in the t-shirt was on top. So it had to have been before the shooting. My bad. I misunderstood her use of the past tense. It’s unclear who had been on top at the time of the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/445 "2012-03-17T18:09:37Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Does anyone have audio for the tape that has two gunshots? Of the four tapes I could listen to on the Sentinel website I was only able to hear one gunshot. Additionally, in the news article I read where one witness reported two gunshots I have read that the tape which supposedly has this recorded only has one clear gunshot on the tape. According to this article [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-16/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316\_1\_deadly-shooting-dispatcher-shot](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-16/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-dispatcher-shot), 2 shots were heard on the tape. It doesn’t sound like is based on a witness statement, but I guess it’s possible it was. Why does this jump out at you, though? Because it could be more evidence against Zimmerman that for one reason or another is being ignored by the cops? Let’s say 2 shots were fired as the article says. Let’s say Martin was heard crying and begging for his life, as his family’s lawyer says. Still not enough for a possible conviction, do you think? Do you still fill comfortable letting the State make that judgment call? > [@](#): > > We have no idea, and can’t possibly have an idea, as to whether there was one gunshot or two. You can’t say that unless you’ve listened to all the tapes, which you just admitted you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/446 "2012-03-17T18:53:42Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m still wondering if Martin had been the shooter, would the police department have accepted his word that Zimmerman had represented a threat on _his_ life? I don’t think so, and that’s what has bothered me about this whole incident. Not a chance in hell. Seriously, suppose Martin was carrying a elgal handgun (probably impossible as he was 17, but let’s just pretend) and was found standing over the dead body of George Zimmerman. I don’t believe anyone can say with a straight face he wouldn’t have been arrested. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/447 "2012-03-17T19:02:26Z")
[http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/68870555/News/911-call:-yelling-&-gunshot-heard-in-background](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/68870555/News/911-call:-yelling-&-gunshot-heard-in-background) There’s a definite pop at about :27 right after she says “but I don’t know.” In an article the Martin family attorney charactarizes it as a warning shot but it’s significantly less loud than the definite gunshot later in the tape. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/448 "2012-03-17T19:16:25Z")
From the [Orlando Sentinel:](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-16/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-dispatcher-shot) > [@](#): > > **In one of the eight calls** , screaming can be heard in the background as a woman tries to get help. That call is punctuated by two gunshots. > > “You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life,” said Natalie Jackson, another family attorney. “Then you hear a second shot.” > > It was the first time that anyone said two shots were fired that night. Since you can hear screaming on the Flash Audio on the right hand side of the page, we can assume this is the call the article refers to. There is a loud noise at :23 seconds, but the caller does not mention any shot at this time. I think it was something banging inside the callers house. The screaming continues. At :41 seconds, there is ONE clear gunshot, which the caller mentions. The screaming stops. The 911 dispatcher asks how many gunshots; the caller says “Just one.” Until I see better evidence, I am going with there was only one shot. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/449 "2012-03-17T19:16:39Z")
wow, that was a very distinct cry for help in that feed. It know this is a subjective opinion, but that “Haaaaalp!” screamed teenager to me. Nothing about it sounded like Zimmerman’s voice based on how he spoke on the phone earlier. The parents would know better than anyone whose voice that was. I feel so bad for them. It was hard for me to make out 2 gunshots though. But I trust the witnesses more so than the cops and Zimmerman, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/450 "2012-03-17T19:23:05Z")
I listened again. It does sound like a gunshot at :26, but it is not as loud as the other shot. The lady might have not heard it because she was talking and was preoccupied with her family. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/451 "2012-03-17T19:26:41Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > wow, that was a very distinct cry for help in that feed. It know this is a subjective opinion, but that “Haaaaalp!” screamed teenager to me. Nothing about it sounded like Zimmerman’s voice based on how he spoke on the phone earlier. > > The parents would know better than anyone whose voice that was. I feel so bad for them. The yells are fairly clear on that audio. Seems like family would be able to identify who was screaming. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It was hard for me to make out 2 gunshots though. But I trust the witnesses more so than the cops and Zimmerman, sorry. I think the only person alleging 2 gunshots is the attorney for the Martin family, not one of the witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/452 "2012-03-17T19:40:11Z")
The scream for help ends abruptly when the last shot is fired. Then there is silence. If Zimmerman had drawn his gun, how likely is it that this unarmed kid would be attacking him to the extent that Zimmerman was basically bawling for help like a baby? We’ve already established that hes at least 100lbs heavier, but folks in here have dismissed that. Okay. But he has a gun. People with guns don’t need as much help as people without guns, thats why they have guns. So who is most likely to be the one screaming for help in this exchange based on this and this alone? Nevermind the fact that Zimmerman already shown himself to unafraid of conflict and thus not very likely to be crying for help to begin with. If he was truly afraid of Martin he would have followed 911’s advice and stayed put in his car. According to his own report, the kid showed signs of avoiding conflict by running away from him. And yet the cops believe that Zimmerman was doing all that yelling? GTFOHWTS. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/453 "2012-03-17T19:40:47Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > According to this article [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-16/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316\_1\_deadly-shooting-dispatcher-shot](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-16/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-dispatcher-shot), 2 shots were heard on the tape. It doesn’t sound like is based on a witness statement, but I guess it’s possible it was. Why does this jump out at you, though? Because it could be more evidence against Zimmerman that for one reason or another is being ignored by the cops? > > Let’s say 2 shots were fired as the article says. Let’s say Martin was heard crying and begging for his life, as his family’s lawyer says. Still not enough for a possible conviction, do you think? Do you still fill comfortable letting the State make that judgment call? Your link did not work for me, brought me to a page not found on the OS website. [This](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-dispatcher-shot) (same as your URL, if this link doesn’t work something is wonky w/the Sentinel) is the article I read and this is the relevant passage for me: > [@](#): > > In one of the eight calls, screaming can be heard in the background as a woman tries to get help. The call is punctuated by two loud bangs. > > Martin family attorneys said both were gunfire. > > “You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the family’s attorneys, “Then you hear a second shot.” > But three witnesses who have made public statements have been clear that they heard a single shot, and Trayvon was hit in the chest by a single bullet. I have not been able to find on the OS website a way to listen to all eight tapes, but only four. On the four I heard, I did not hear two loud bangs so I assume that I haven’t heard the tape in question. I note that only the family attorney is saying there is a second shot. As the sentinel article says, though, Trayvon was only hit once and three witnesses have made statements that there was only one shot. > [@](#): > > You can’t say that unless you’ve listened to all the tapes, which you just admitted you didn’t. I can say that. I think as a person extremely familiar with firearms I could _probably_ recognize two gunshots on a tape, but the quality of the four tapes I have heard, I don’t know that I would be able to easily distinguish sounds to that degree of accuracy. So to me two loud pops isn’t absolute proof of anything. If the police found the weapon had evidence of being fired twice that’d be more compelling. I can’t remember what type of weapon Zimmerman was reported as using. If it was a semiautomatic pistol and there were two rounds less than full, that would suggest two shots (not prove it, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/454 "2012-03-17T19:42:59Z")
As for this: > [@](#): > > Do you still fill comfortable letting the State make that judgment call? I think that is precisely what the State is for, and precisely what the State’s Attorney exists for; juries should not and do not get to make that sort of judgment call. They get to decide on cases the State decides to bring, that is how our justice system works, and I think for very good reason. “Public outrage” is not supposed to be a criteria in whether a case gets brought or not (in the real world in the U.S. I know it sometimes is), so appeals to the sanctity of the jury are not persuasive to me, a jury is a finder of fact, not executor of prosecutorial discretion. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/455 "2012-03-17T19:45:18Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > If the police found the weapon had evidence of being fired twice that’d be more compelling. I can’t remember what type of weapon Zimmerman was reported as using. If it was a semiautomatic pistol and there were two rounds less than full, that would suggest two shots (not prove it, of course.) If 2 shots were fired, but the cops still maintained that Zimmerman’s story still is believable to them, would you still be okay with that? What would be your tipping point? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/456 "2012-03-17T19:46:48Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > wow, that was a very distinct cry for help in that feed. It know this is a subjective opinion, but that “Haaaaalp!” screamed teenager to me. Nothing about it sounded like Zimmerman’s voice based on how he spoke on the phone earlier. > > The parents would know better than anyone whose voice that was. I feel so bad for them. > > It was hard for me to make out 2 gunshots though. But I trust the witnesses more so than the cops and Zimmerman, sorry. Then you trust there is only one gunshot, right? Because three witnesses have said (or rather the Sentinel tells us they have said) there is only one gunshot and the caller that **newme** references says on the 911 call there was only one gunshot. In one of the tapes I hear what I think is extremely clearly a gunshot, I do not hear two gunshots in the four tapes I have access to. So I’m assuming you also believe there is only one gunshot, since that is what 3-4 witnesses and a recorded 911 call says. What you’re showing here is you have _predetermined Zimmerman’s guilt_, I think that colors your opinions here. My bias does not exist at all, my only point the whole time is the State _starts at a disadvantage_ and the evidence so far is, if viewed with absolute impartiality, able to be interpreted in multiple ways. The defense only has to get one juror to agree with their interpretation. I think there is some reason that a former federal prosecutor and current law professor is indicating this would be a difficult case. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/457 "2012-03-17T19:48:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The scream for help ends abruptly when the last shot is fired. Then there is silence. > > If Zimmerman had drawn his gun, how likely is it that this unarmed kid would be attacking him to the extent that Zimmerman was basically bawling for help like a baby? We’ve already established that hes at least 100lbs heavier, but folks in here have dismissed that. Okay. But he has a gun. People with guns don’t need as much help as people without guns, thats why they have guns. So who is most likely to be the one screaming for help in this exchange based on this and this alone? > > Nevermind the fact that Zimmerman already shown himself to unafraid of conflict and thus not very likely to be crying for help to begin with. If he was truly afraid of Martin he would have followed 911’s advice and stayed put in his car. According to his own report, the kid showed signs of avoiding conflict by running away from him. > > And yet the cops believe that Zimmerman was doing all that yelling? GTFOHWTS. The cops, and according to recent news articles, the prosecution does not believe any of this evidence you find so compelling is enough for a conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/458 "2012-03-17T19:53:06Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If 2 shots were fired, but the cops still maintained that Zimmerman’s story still is believable to them, would you still be okay with that? What would be your tipping point? If the police found evidence that two bullets were missing from the gun I’d find that more compelling that two shots were fired, not that the police should have arrested Zimmerman. Two shots don’t really change my opinion on anything, unless Martin was shot twice and the second shot was an execution style shot, that would clearly invalidate self defense. Martin was only shot once, though. There is no tipping point for me. My point all along is that police and the prosecutor have the say in whether or not they should pursue a case. It goes back to what we’ve gone over 50 times here and in response to the OP, the police either didn’t arrest because: 1. They felt they lacked probable cause. 2. They believed Zimmerman’s story of affirmative self defense. (This could be 1/2 combined.) 3. They were acting improperly. 4. They felt they had probable cause but lacked a strong enough case to justify an arrest. The thread itself was about the police. Recent revelations suggest the prosecutors may have been involved all along, if so then: 1. The prosecution has said there is not enough evidence for a conviction because that is their professional opinion and have told police not to make an arrest. 2. The prosecution are acting improperly. I won’t have an opinion on whether anyone’s acting improperly until this case is essentially resolved and follow up investigations have happened. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/459 "2012-03-17T19:54:10Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Then you trust there is only one gunshot, right? I don’t know that. Sadly, i dont trust any of the initial witness statements gathered by the cops because of what some of the witnesses have said in recent days. You still haven’t explained why you are so hung up on the 1 shot vs 2 shot thing. Do you think it’s a significant either way? I don’t think it changes much, but you seem to because you written several paragraphs about it in a rather passionate way. 1 vs 2, kid is still dead. I’m more concerned about what the cries for help suggest in tandem with the dead shot. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/460 "2012-03-17T20:00:57Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There is no tipping point for me. My point all along is that police and the prosecutor have the say in whether or not they should pursue a case. So your point is that whatever the cops and the prosection say, okey dokey. I’m not as trusting as you. The cops lost me at “he felt the need to defend himself”. After that, I can’t give them the benefit of the doubt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=24)