# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/821 "2012-03-20T18:28:07Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > Huh? So laws that were voted into law by the elected state government and signed by the elected governor constitute “mob rule”? I think you might be confusing mob rule with democracy. I can’t think of anything more democratic than a bunch of citizens making their concerns known to a democratically elected official. If this official caters to their wishes simply because he wants to keep his job, we must consider this a cost of living in a society set up like this. There’s no getting around it unless you want to block people’s 1st amendment right. That said, this whole tangent presumes that “angry blacks” had anything to do with the grand jury decision. Call me crazy, but I’m thinking those incriminating phone logs of Martin’s girlfriend had a lot more to do with this. Didn’t **Martin Hyde** himself seem to think this info could be game-changing, at least as of this morning? But hey, let me not get in the way of some good old fashioned teeth gnashing about Al Sharpton. It’s been at least a week and two days since we’ve had some of that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/822 "2012-03-20T18:28:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Mob rule created this SYG mess in the first place. What’s good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander. SYG ?😕 ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/823 "2012-03-20T18:28:52Z")
I personally think race has nothing to do with this case. I think Zimmerman would have behaved the same way if Martin was white, hispanic, asian, native american or whatever else, I think age has a lot more to do with his decision making than race. But that is just my opinion, in any event it shouldn’t be hard to prove or disprove if his actions were motivated by racism. After all, he make something like 46 calls to the police in the months leading up to this incident. By looking at those cases any history of racial prejudice should be pretty apparent. In mean if every time he calls the cops it is to report a “suspicious” black person than that would be a pretty good indicator that he had racist motivations. On the other hand, if those calls show no consistent pattern of reporting certain ethnic groups than I think it is unfair to accuse him of being a racist without any proof. ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/824 "2012-03-20T18:33:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I can’t think of anything more democratic than a bunch of citizens making their concerns known to a democratically elected official. If this official caters to their wishes simply because he wants to keep his job, we must consider this a cost of living in a society set up like this. There’s no getting around it unless you want to block people’s 1st amendment right. > > That said, this whole tangent presumes that “angry blacks” had anything to do with the grand jury decision. Call me crazy, but I’m thinking those incriminating phone logs of Martin’s girlfriend had a lot more to do with this. Didn’t **Martin Hyde** himself seem to think this info could be game-changing, at least as of this morning? > > But hey, let me not get in the way of some good old fashioned teeth gnashing about Al Sharpton. It’s been at least a week and two days since we’ve had some of that. So how does this have anything to do with your ridiculous assertion that “Stand Your Ground” laws are the result of “mob rule”? Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/825 "2012-03-20T18:40:42Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Why would the police or SA claim someone would be charged before they had made that determination? Further, I’ve never said the police MUST have evidence that made his claim of self-defense believable. Only that they have evidence that allows them to fully assess how likely they will be able to contest that claim in court. And I was arguing that, based on what I know, my opinion is that he should be charged. > [@](#): > > Any individual who I either don’t know personally or who is not of societal importance is a nobody. Societal importance meaning they are a local political official, business leader, or on up (higher ranking politicians, civic leaders, famous artists etc.) It sounds to me like I’m not allowed to care about people unless they’re famous. Well, if you want to follow that criteria, Trayvon Martin is of societal importance right now - a lot of people know his name, and his case is causing a lot of talk about the usefulness or validity of Stand Your Ground laws. So even though he’s not a pop singer, I’m going to care about his case, even though you think I shouldn’t have the right to. > [@](#): > > In the context of our criminal justice system though, we shouldn’t institute mob rule over the death of anyone, let alone a nobody (but even a somebody.) No, we shouldn’t have mob rule, people shouldn’t be pulling him out of jail, and prosecutors shouldn’t convict him because they’re afraid of public opinion. But if I think a story shows some injustice in the legal system, why shouldn’t I make my voice heard and complain about it? ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/826 "2012-03-20T18:42:06Z")
Also, in regards to those 46 calls that he made to the police over the past few months. In all of those incidents did he ever confront one of the people he was reporting? If so, that would be a good indication that he has displayed a pattern of confrontation that would definitely be relevant in this issue. On the other hand, if in all of those other incidents he never once forced a confrontation with one of the people he was reporting I have a hard time believing that this one time he decided he was going to start a fight. I mean, 46 previous incidents is a large enough number to establish a pattern of behavior. Perhaps the investigators have been looking into these cases and this is part of the reason they have gone to the grand jury? Once again, I guess we will never know until the official story comes out. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/827 "2012-03-20T18:43:43Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > So how does this have anything to do with your ridiculous assertion that “Stand Your Ground” laws are the result of “mob rule”? Please explain. SYG was passed because of a vocal segment of the population that is pro-gun, pro-vigilante behavior. “Mob rule” is in the eye of the beholder. Its a pejorative that people use when democracy goes against this wishes. On one hand, you have people pushing for laws that make it easier to kill people with impunity. And on the other hand, you have other people pushing for more investigation of a potential murder incident. They are really no different from one another; it all boils down to influencing elected officials to do what you want. The only problem is when this pressure causes flawed decisions to be made. A strong case can be made that SYG fits the bill. I mean, who knew that if OJ had killed Nicole and Ron in FL in the year 2012, he could have fucked up the prosecution’s case simply by asserting self-defense? I didn’t know this. Did you? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/828 "2012-03-20T18:43:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Mob rule created this SYG mess in the first place. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I can’t think of anything more democratic than a bunch of citizens making their concerns known to a democratically elected official. As the characters on Sesame Street used to sing, “One of these things, does not belong here!” ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/829 "2012-03-20T18:44:56Z")
> [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > But this is a 17 year old. Granted, I live in Minnesota, but all of the teens (even in summer) around my suburban house wear hoodies or t-shirts and these awful saggy, skinny jeans. I didn’t know skinny jeans could be saggy, but oh yes, they can. > > As a teen, I used to hide behind my hair all the damn time. So, yeah, if some\* random guy\* (not a police officer) is staring at me and following me, yeah, I can put myself in his shoes and ‘hide’ behind a hoodie and try to walk faster to get away from the creep… Pulling up a hoodie, when somebody looks at you. What do you thinking that is going to accomplish? Do you think it makes you invisible? Also keep in mind that Martin didn’t know that Zimmerman wasn’t a plainclothes cop or private security. If Martin thought Zimmerman was a mugger or something, then **he** should have been calling 911 or at least his father. What good does calling his girlfriend do? BTW, you really should re-think your behavior. Acting like that is just sending out fear signals to potential predators. Actually that may be consistent. From a criminal’s point of view, police officers are their predators. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/830 "2012-03-20T18:45:39Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > What would make him a somebody? Could you have picked him out of a crowd before last month? Could you mention any way he’s contributed to society? I’m becoming curious about this. What level of contributions to society make a person a “somebody”, meaning that we are allowed to care about an injustice committed against that person? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/831 "2012-03-20T18:46:43Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > And I was arguing that, based on what I know, my opinion is that he should be charged. I think the investigation should continue. Why is so important to charge him now, rather than develop a strong case? ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/832 "2012-03-20T18:50:36Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I think a story shows some injustice in the legal system, why shouldn’t I make my voice heard and complain about it? The problem is that people are making these assumptions of injustice without knowing the full details of what actually happened. That is the similarity to “mob rule” here. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/833 "2012-03-20T18:51:18Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Pulling up a hoodie, when somebody looks at you. What do you thinking that is going to accomplish?. I don’t know, that seems kind of a natural reaction to me. If someone is staring at me in a public place, for example, I might turn my head to face the other way because sometimes it bugs me when people stare at me. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/834 "2012-03-20T18:55:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think the investigation should continue. > > Why is so important to charge him now, rather than develop a strong case? What I am saying is: if no more evidence were being gathered, and all the evidence I had was what I have available to me now, I would hope that such a case fits the criteria for charging him. If there is an investigation going on, to obtain more evidence, I have no argument with that. Get more evidence to build a stronger case. What I would disagree with would be if someone said “this is the evidence we have now (the stuff I’ve read in newspaper articles so far), this is insufficient evidence to overcome a claim of self-defense, it’s not worth bringing to trial.” ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/835 "2012-03-20T18:56:55Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > The problem is that people are making these assumptions of injustice without knowing the full details of what actually happened. That is the similarity to “mob rule” here. Then give me more details, and I’ll revise my opinion based on those details. But to tell me “you are allowed to read newspaper articles but are forbidden to draw any conclusions about what you read” seems a silly restriction to me. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/836 "2012-03-20T18:57:59Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Like I mentioned, you have no ability to look at this rationally. Dude, you’re crying because the state of Florida, one month after a potential murder has taken place, has made the fantastically rash decision to present this case to a grand jury. And for the last hour, you’ve actually be insisting that Martin was a nobody, which means concerns over his death represent reacreational outrage. But _I’m_ unable to look at this rationally. Yup, you have me convinced. ---
**Author:** ![KAndre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@KAndre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KAndre)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/837 "2012-03-20T18:59:39Z")
I have to admit, I have a hard time with the argument that since Martin was “nobody”, what happened to him doesn’t matter. That even though it appears that he did nothing wrong and was a victim of homicide (since even Zimmerman isn’t claiming it was an accident), his parents are “irrational and stupid” for trying to make the system work the way we think it’s supposed (suspicious killing with a smoking gun - arrest - trial - a “fair” determination of innocence or guilt). And yes, I think that Zimmerman’s comments just on his 911 call are enough to make this killing suspicious. I want the “nobodies” to have the same treatment that the rich and “politically important” do…and hopefully this brings attention to the “13-15” people who were killed that didn’t get justice either. That “angry black mob” (talk about your “recreational fit” - I’ll bet that “mob” has a fair number of people who are neither angry nor black) want the system to do the job it’s supposed to - investigate a possible crime instead of blowing it off. That our legal system is an evolving one, that _does_ react to public opinion to what appears to be injustice. And a change from the “angry white mob” of yesterday who wasn’t satisfied with an arrest and just went straight to lynchings. My impression is that the Sanford police had blown this off and wasn’t going to do anything about it until the media became involved. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/838 "2012-03-20T19:02:26Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > What I would disagree with would be if someone said “this is the evidence we have now (the stuff I’ve read in newspaper articles so far), this is insufficient evidence to overcome a claim of self-defense, it’s not worth bringing to trial.” OK. I’m telling you, though, that in my opinion you’re incorrect. And in my opinion, I have a tad bit more experience with the criminal justice system than you do. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/839 "2012-03-20T19:05:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > SYG ?😕 Stand Your Ground. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/840 "2012-03-20T19:06:26Z")
My guess as to what happened, Zimmerman probably tried to physically restrain Trayvon, after pursuing unnecessarily pursuing him, Trayvon resisted called out for help and in the struggle hit Zimmerman who then shot and killed Trayvon. There was clearly a struggle initiated and accelerated by Zimmerman. Trayvon was the one who was standing his ground and Zimmerman was completely outside the law in both trying to restrain Trayvon and then of course shooting him. I actually have no doubt that Zimmerman thinks he was acting in self-defense. I also have no doubt that that is because he is a deranged racist lunatic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=43)