# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/841 "2012-03-20T19:10:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. I’m telling you, though, that in my opinion you’re incorrect. And in my opinion, I have a tad bit more experience with the criminal justice system than you do. And to that, I would reply, as I’ve replied many times in this thread, if in this case there is not enough evidence to overcome a (bogus) claim of self-defense, then there is something wrong with these Stand Your Ground laws, and they need to be rewritten or appealed. Evidence known to me in this case: neighborhood watch person (aka shooter) has a history of complaining about people “always getting away”, shooter tells 911 person that he will be following a suspect, 911 person tells him not to do that, shooter says he will do it anyway, “suspect” is shot and killed, shooter claims “I didn’t go out to chase him, I went out to look at a street sign but the teenager chased me down and attacked me even though I tried to escape”, teenager was an unarmed person with a reason to be in the neighborhood, person who was on the phone with teenager at the time says that the teenager told her that he was trying to escape a large man who was following him and started running away. But, in your superior legal opinion, this is not enough to overcome the claim of self-defense by the shooter? ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/842 "2012-03-20T19:14:40Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > SYG was passed because of a vocal segment of the population that is pro-gun, pro-vigilante behavior. A segment of the population that controlled the majority of the elected officials in a state of millions? That “segment of the population” would actually be defined as “the majority of voters” but whatever. Also, I reject the notion that SYG laws have anything to do with vigilantism, they are actually about giving people the basic human right to defend themselves from an attacker, but more on that later… > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > “Mob rule” is in the eye of the beholder. Its a pejorative that people use when democracy goes against this wishes. Actually, mob rule means that a mob of people decides to take the law into their own hands and act as judge, jury and executioner. It is exactly the kind of behavior that led to lynchings in the old south and it is utterly incompatible with civil society. We have laws and the justice system for a reason. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > On one hand, you have people pushing for laws that make it easier to kill people with impunity. And on the other hand, you have other people pushing for more investigation of a potential murder incident. They are really no different from one another; it all boils down to influencing elected officials to do what you want. There is a difference, the self-defense laws you refer to were passed through legal democratic government action. The people pushing for investigation are attempting to dictate the behavior of government officials through undemocratic means. Certainly they have the right to do so, but don’t kid yourself into thinking they have the will of the majority of voters on their side when they do it. Secondly, “Stand Your Ground” laws do not make it easier to kill people with impunity, they make it easier for people to defend themselves from those who would do them harm. If it weren’t for “Stand Your Ground” laws this young mother and her child in Oklahoma would probably be dead right now: > **[Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder: 911 Operators Say It's OK to Shoot](https://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder911-operators-shoot/story?id=15285605#.TwTjLtRrNM8)** > > A young Oklahoma mother took the notion of 'maternal instinct' to a new level when she shot and killed and intruder to protect her three-month-old baby on New Year's Eve, less than a week after the baby's father died of cancer. The 4th amendment has often allowed criminals to get away with their crimes. In spite of that it doesn’t mean that the entire law should be thrown out. I think the same can be said for “SYG” laws, just because some extremely lucky criminal _may_ be able to use the law to get away with a crime does not mean that we should give away the legal protections that allow potential victims to protect themselves from those who would do them harm. As far as I am concerned the right to self-defense is a basic human right that should not be infringed upon by any government or “mob” of uninformed and irrational people. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The only problem is when this pressure causes flawed decisions to be made. A strong case can be made that SYG fits the bill. I mean, who knew that if OJ had killed Nicole and Ron in FL in the year 2012, he could have fucked up the prosecution’s case simply by asserting self-defense? I didn’t know this. Did you? Hardly, OJ had a history with both of the people he killed, he had no injuries consistent with a self-defense claim, and he left the scene of the crime. Such an attempted defense would have been defeated within minutes by investigators and would have seriously jeopardized any other defense he could have come up with at that point. Think about it, claiming “self-defense” is an admission that you were at the scene and that you willingly used violence. It is an extremely dangerous line of defense because you outright admit you committed the killing. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/843 "2012-03-20T19:15:54Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I think it is perfectly possible to draw inferences from what we know, and decide what is the most probably sequence of events. (i.e. that teenager Trayvon Martin chasing down neighborhood watch captain Zimmerman and attacking him, while Zimmerman flees for his life, is much less likely than Zimmerman chasing Trayvon Martin in the street and detaining him.) The position that any explanation is equally likely seems ridiculous to me, and if our courts of law operated that way, a lot more criminals would be able to avoid prosecution or conviction. > > If you want to argue “I think the scenario went down this way, here are my reasons”, I don’t see why that’s any worse than throwing your hands up in the air and say “it’s impossible to arrive at any conclusion.” I don’t get them saying that though. In fact I can only think of one of the posters (OnePercent) who offered another scenario (and that scenario seemed unlikely given what we happen to know about the case through the media). But I could be wrong on that,and those posters made had claimed some scenario that I missed as I have read the thread over several days. “We” can draw inferences all the live long day, but ultimately ‘we’ aren’t the ones who decide if they have enough evidence to charge this guy and make it stick. For all I know the police think he is guilty as they come but just don’t feel they have enough evidence to withstand that SYG defense. I have no idea, that is just as likely as racism, etc. My personal opinion is like yours, that Zimmerman was the aggressor here, but I wasn’t there and I don’t have the whole picture. My perception of the whole deal is filtered by the media, not a good filter to have in my opinion. I think as the case gets investigated his story will start to fall apart and eventually he will be charged. Some of that will come about due to public pressure which one could argue is good or bad, but the reality is we live in a society now that can create that public pressure. If racism is the reason (unlikely in my opinion) then with this public focus that won’t last. It is very likely this is all hinging on having enough evidence to counter that legal threshold of the SYG. I think again you are arguing a personal viewpoint and they are arguing a semantic legal viewpoint. Arguing with someone who is espousing the legal definition of something from an emotional viewpoint seems to me to be a waste of time. Bricker (and company) isn’t making the law, they are just stating that is how the law will be interpreted, etc. Wishing it wasn’t isn’t going to change it. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/844 "2012-03-20T19:16:28Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Evidence known to me in this case: shooter tells 911 person that he will be following a suspect, 911 person tells him not to do that, shooter says he will do it anyway, “suspect” is shot and killed, shooter claims “I didn’t go out to chase him, I went out to look at a street sign but the teenager chased me down and attacked me even though I tried to escape”, teenager was an unarmed person with a reason to be in the neighborhood, person who was on the phone with teenager at the time says that the teenager told her that he was trying to escape a large man who was following him and started running away. But, in your superior legal opinion, this is not enough to overcome the claim of self-defense by the shooter? Add to that witnesses who said that it was the kid who screamed for help, the indisputable fact that the kid was shot in a backyard (not on the street where Zimmerman claimed he was jumped by the kid), and the intrinsic silliness of Zimmerman’s claim that he had to get out of his car to determine what street he was on (which makes me think on top of being a nutcase, he was a really bad liar too…seriously, WTF is that mess about?) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/845 "2012-03-20T19:19:11Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > Secondly, “Stand Your Ground” laws do not make it easier to kill people with impunity, they make it easier for people to defend themselves from those who would do them harm. If it weren’t for “Stand Your Ground” laws this young mother and her child in Oklahoma would probably be dead right now: It sure sounds like it made it easy for Zimmerman to murder with impunity. And the young woman in Oklahoma didn’t need a SYG law- no jury would have convicted her. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/846 "2012-03-20T19:19:18Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > Actually, mob rule means that a mob of people decides to take the law into their own hands and act as judge, jury and executioner. Other than Zimmerman himself, who has done this? He’s still alive and non-executed the last time I checked. He also hasn’t been arrested or imprisoned. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/847 "2012-03-20T19:20:49Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > So basically you are saying that if someone was running after you to return the wallet that you dropped unknowingly in the parking lot you have the legal right to punch them in the face or have the police charge them with “assault”? Absurd. Anyone with common sense can see that there would need to be more compounding factors than simply running at someone to prove assault. Maybe you should test it out, next time you are at the park and some jogger is running up behind you you should turn around and punch him or her and then tell the police you were being assaulted. 🙂 Having a jogger behind you isn’t really the same thing as being chased. If you had reason to believe (even erroneously) that the jogger _was_ chasing you (say by taking an unusual, zig-zagging path that the jogger then also took) and you struck the jogger with non-deadly force, you’d be able to use self-defense. Moreover, the belief need only be reasonable, not necessarily correct. Likewise with the wallet return scenario. If someone chased after you to return your mislaid wallet, without letting you know that what they were up to, and you used non-deadly force to repel them, you would again be able to avail yourself of self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/848 "2012-03-20T19:21:02Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > And to that, I would reply, as I’ve replied many times in this thread, if in this case there is not enough evidence to overcome a (bogus) claim of self-defense, then there is something wrong with these Stand Your Ground laws, and they need to be rewritten or appealed. > > Evidence known to me in this case: neighborhood watch person (aka shooter) has a history of complaining about people “always getting away”, shooter tells 911 person that he will be following a suspect, 911 person tells him not to do that, shooter says he will do it anyway, “suspect” is shot and killed, shooter claims “I didn’t go out to chase him, I went out to look at a street sign but the teenager chased me down and attacked me even though I tried to escape”, teenager was an unarmed person with a reason to be in the neighborhood, person who was on the phone with teenager at the time says that the teenager told her that he was trying to escape a large man who was following him and started running away. But, in your superior legal opinion, this is not enough to overcome the claim of self-defense by the shooter? No, it’s not. To obtain a conviction, you must supply proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That means that your evidence must exclude all other reasonable possibilities, and support only guilt. Because the shooter can supply a story that’s reasonable, and not clearly contradicted by the evidence, it’s not worth going to trial. Unless you view the going-to-trial process itself as an alternative punishment (“We won’t convict him, but we’ll make the SOB pay for a lawyer and cough up bail money!”) And by the way – he doesn’t have to say, “…even though I tried to escape.” That’s the point of the stand your ground law. He has no duty to try to escape; a jury cannot infer guilt because he failed to try to escape. The prosecution can’t so much as say to the jury that Zimmerman failed to attempt to escape. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/849 "2012-03-20T19:22:17Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Having a jogger behind you isn’t really the same thing as being chased. If you had reason to believe (even erroneously) that the jogger _was_ chasing you (say by taking an unusual, zig-zagging path that the jogger then also took) and you struck the jogger with non-deadly force, you’d be able to use self-defense. Moreover, the belief need only be reasonable, not necessarily correct. > > Likewise with the wallet return scenario. If someone chased after you to return your mislaid wallet, without letting you know that what they were up to, and you used non-deadly force to repel them, you would again be able to avail yourself of self-defense. I don’t suppose you have any case law to back up this idea that chasing, without anything else, constitutes tortious assault and permits the use of force in reply? ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/850 "2012-03-20T19:22:24Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > **Evidence known to _me_ in this case:** neighborhood watch person (aka shooter) has a history of complaining about people “always getting away”, shooter tells 911 person that he will be following a suspect, 911 person tells him not to do that, shooter says he will do it anyway, “suspect” is shot and killed, shooter claims “I didn’t go out to chase him, I went out to look at a street sign but the teenager chased me down and attacked me even though I tried to escape”, teenager was an unarmed person with a reason to be in the neighborhood, person who was on the phone with teenager at the time says that the teenager told her that he was trying to escape a large man who was following him and started running away. But, in your superior legal opinion, this is not enough to overcome the claim of self-defense by the shooter? So you admit outright that you don’t know what happened, you are basing all of your assumptions on the information that is available to you through the media, much of which has never been officially confirmed. For all you know the police have an eyewitness that has completely verified Zimmerman’s version of events. They have no obligation to release that information and they may be deliberately withholding it strategically as not to taint the investigation. In other words, you should refrain from making rash judgements when you do not have the totality of the evidence in front of you. ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/851 "2012-03-20T19:24:24Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Other than Zimmerman himself, who has done this? He’s still alive and non-executed the last time I checked. He also hasn’t been arrested or imprisoned. He has injuries consistent with having been assaulted. His defense has nothing to do with delivering justice and everything to do with self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/852 "2012-03-20T19:25:46Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > But Martin didn’t know that. Zimmerman was sure acting like a plainclothes cop or private security. Yowza, what an obedient soul you are! Free citizens on public ways owe no duty to follow the orders of random strangers on the outside chance that those commanding them are plainsclothes police or “private security” (_i.e._, just some guy who’s getting paid). Even the duly consistuted police couldn’t stop Martin without reasonable, articulable suspicion (a Terry stop), and then only briefly and for the limited purpose of either confirming or dispelling the suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/853 "2012-03-20T19:27:53Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > So you admit outright that you don’t know what happened, you are basing all of your assumptions on the information that is available to you through the media, much of which has never been officially confirmed. For all you know the police have an eyewitness that has completely verified Zimmerman’s version of events. They have no obligation to release that information and they may be deliberately withholding it strategically as not to taint the investigation. In other words, you should refrain from making rash judgements when you do not have the totality of the evidence in front of you. So you admit outright that your argument amounts to: “Who knows? Maybe there’s something out there that shows I’m right!” ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/854 "2012-03-20T19:28:16Z")
> [@Lady\_of\_the\_Lake](#): > > Ignore this post. Argh, I really shouldn’t post when hungry. It’s mostly gibberish. 🙂 > [@](#): > > What I meant to say: > > 1. But a ski mask at 40 is only applicable to a hoodie in this situation if it is something many normal teens are doing. It isn’t. Many normal teens, as others have said, wear hoodies in warm weather. It wasn’t that he was wearing a hoodie, but that Martin **put the hoodie up** when he saw that Zimmerman was looking at him. Are you claiming that if you were looking at someone and they noticed it and put their hoodie up when they noticed that you were looking at them, that you wouldn’t find it suspicious? 1. The police story is only applicable if Zimmerman was in any way in his right to follow and accost this boy. He’s not a cop. As I said in my first post, if I were a teen and some adult started staring at me/following me/harassing me: I would be afraid. I can put myself in his shoes and think about hiding behind a hoodie and walking faster to try to get away from the creep. _shrug_ [/QUOTE] You are assuming things that Martin didn’t know at that point. If he actually thought Zimmerman was a bad guy, he should have called 911 or his father and not his girlfriend. I want to see more forensic evidence myself. If there isn’t any gunpowder residue on Martin’s shirt, then Zimmerman is probably in trouble. Also I’d like to see if Zimmerman’s wounds are consistent with Martin assaulting him. If they aren’t, then I would downgrade Zimmerman to toast. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/855 "2012-03-20T19:29:14Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > **He has injuries consistent with having been assaulted.** His defense has nothing to do with delivering justice and everything to do with self-defense. Unless it was due to the kid fighting back because a gun was shoved in his face. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/856 "2012-03-20T19:32:07Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > He has injuries consistent with having been assaulted. His defense has nothing to do with delivering justice and everything to do with self-defense. He played judge and jury when concluded the kid was up to no good, just because of the way he looked, and initiated a foot-chase just to keep him from getting away. ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/857 "2012-03-20T19:40:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It sure sounds like it made it easy for Zimmerman to murder with impunity. Based on your obviously biased and unsubstantiated assumptions about what actually took place. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > And the young woman in Oklahoma didn’t need a SYG law- no jury would have convicted her. But she still would have been charged, as you seem to be admitting here, and she could have accepted a plea deal in such a hypothetical scenario and been imprisoned for defending herself and her child. More importantly, without the legal protections that are guaranteed in the self-defense laws she may have never bought a gun in the first place out of fear that she would be in violation of the law, in which case she would have been unable to defend herself when the situation arose. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/858 "2012-03-20T19:41:46Z")
> [@OnePercent](#): > > Secondly, “Stand Your Ground” laws do not make it easier to kill people with impunity, they make it easier for people to defend themselves from those who would do them harm. If it weren’t for “Stand Your Ground” laws this young mother and her child in Oklahoma would probably be dead right now: > > [Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder: 911 Operators Say It's OK to Shoot - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder911-operators-shoot/story?id=15285605#.TwTjLtRrNM8) It is my understanding that your statement is inaccurate. In the case you cite, the woman was in her home and someone kicked down the door, holding a weapon. You already had the right (Castle doctrine, IIRC) to defned yourself in your own home. The “Stand Your Ground” expression is usually used for laws that cover a different situation. A SYG law adds the fact that you do not have a “duty to retreat” when out in public (i.e. not in your home): you can shoot to kill when in the street without having to try to avoid the confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/859 "2012-03-20T19:43:11Z")
Trayvon Martin wasn’t a nobody to his friends and family. Furthermore, he was an American citizen with the presumed right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That life was taken without a satisfactory explanation to his family by th ```php ``` e police. “Gee, it was self-defense, nothing we can do, y’all have a nice day” wouldn’t satisfy me if I was in their shoes. As more details emerge, more questions are raised about Zimmerman’s actions and the police investigation. Legitimate questions. With the new revelation of the girlfriend on the phone, there is now another witness. The police seemingly accepted Zimmerman’s version of events without question, despite the inconsistencies and falsehoods. So what if “a bunch of blacks” are protesting? Sometimes a light needs to be shone on the police and the justice system. Nor is it only black people who are disturbed by what happened in Florida. It certainly wouldn’t be unprecedented for a black victim to be denied justice, especially in the south. Personally, I would find this case just as disturbing if the teen was white. The heart of the matter is that a young life was taken for reasons that don’t add up to anything I call justice. If all that happens next is the repeal of this misguided statute, then millions protesting in the streets would be a good thing if it prompts action. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/860 "2012-03-20T19:47:04Z")
> [@Hakuna\_Matata](#): > > I don’t get them saying that though. In fact I can only think of one of the posters (OnePercent) who offered another scenario (and that scenario seemed unlikely given what we happen to know about the case through the media). But I could be wrong on that,and those posters made had claimed some scenario that I missed as I have read the thread over several days. Many people in this thread have said that the shooter had a bloody nose, so the young man could have hit him first and that would justify a self-defense claim. > [@](#): > > I think again you are arguing a personal viewpoint and they are arguing a semantic legal viewpoint. Arguing with someone who is espousing the legal definition of something from an emotional viewpoint seems to me to be a waste of time. Bricker (and company) isn’t making the law, they are just stating that is how the law will be interpreted, etc. Wishing it wasn’t isn’t going to change it. And I can argue that IMHO their semantic legal viewpoint is wrong. This is what happens in a court of law, right, two opposing parties taking different opinions of the same events? Sometimes people (even professionals like Supreme court justices) will disagree with other experts (other Supreme court justices) on how the law will or should be interpreted? OK then. In addition, I am arguing that is this is how the law is correctly interpreted, then it is a bad law. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=44)