# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/941 "2012-03-21T00:01:50Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I think the “reasonable” story offered by Zimmerman is contradicted by the evidence. First of all by his own words; the shooter tells the 911 dispatcher he is going to follow the teenager, and then after the fact says that he didn’t intend on following the teenager, the reverse happened, the teenager pursued and attacked _him_ ?!? Secondly it is contradicted by the evidence of the person on the phone with Trayvon, saying that Zimmerman was chasing Zimmerman and not the other way around. Zimmerman, to me, is clearly lying. You’re misquoting Zimmerman, which is a good trick to turn him into a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/942 "2012-03-21T00:08:45Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > This is insane. > > If you listen to the 911 calls, it’s clear that Trayvon is yelling for help BEFORE ZImmerman shoots him. > > There’s boatloads more, but that all by itself is everything. Zimmerman is a murderer. You mean Zimmerman was yelling for help. A friend of Zimmerman was interviewed on the Todaynshow and said that the voice on the tape was Zimmerman’s. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/943 "2012-03-21T00:09:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You really consider SIX FOOT 3 INCHES to look like a KID?!?:eek: [patiently] There is more to looking like a kid than short height. [/patiently] ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/944 "2012-03-21T00:15:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You’re misquoting Zimmerman, which is a good trick to turn him into a liar. What part am I misquoting? What is the correct quote? ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/945 "2012-03-21T00:18:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You mean Zimmerman was yelling for help. A friend of Zimmerman was interviewed on the Todaynshow and said that the voice on the tape was Zimmerman’s. And Trayvon’s family swears it’s _his_ voice. This is something that’s in contention and there’s talk of forensic voice analysis, though at the moment I couldn’t point to a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/946 "2012-03-21T00:29:16Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > And Trayvon’s family swears it’s _his_ voice. This is something that’s in contention and there’s talk of forensic voice analysis, though at the moment I couldn’t point to a cite. My understanding is forensic voice analysis often isn’t always conclusive and the situations where it is most likely to be inconclusive are when the recorded voice is of someone who is stressed or etc (such as screaming), so if you have friends of Zimmerman identifying it as his voice and friends of Trayvon identifying it as his voice, that will not likely be a conclusive piece of evidence at trial. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/947 "2012-03-21T00:32:41Z")
Seems like it was be fairly easy for a forensic analyst to figure out who most likely was yelling on that tape. Not that most people with a brain would need anyone to point out the obvious, though. Kind of funny how that voice goes out like a light just when the bullet hit the boy’s chest. No post-shooting moans or gasps or anything. Dead silence. A jury is smart enough to connect dots together. That’s why I’m unpersuaded by all the insistence that this case is weak. Only one person in the exchange would be expected to be screaming like that, and it’s NOT the 250 lbs armed individual who hunted Martin down like a rabid animal. It’s NOT the individual who left the safety of his truck to confront a stranger who he had prejudged upfront as dangerous. And it’s NOT the person whose injuries constituted something Alfalfa and Buckwheat would have sustained on a typical day with the rascals. So let’s be real. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/948 "2012-03-21T00:34:43Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > This is insane. > > If you listen to the 911 calls, it’s clear that Trayvon is yelling for help BEFORE ZImmerman shoots him. > > There’s boatloads more, but that all by itself is everything. Zimmerman is a murderer. He is almost certainly not even going to be charged with murder. These are the jury instructions you are given in Florida for different types of murder: > [@](#): > > [CENTER] **7.2 MURDER—FIRST DEGREE** > [/CENTER] > [CENTER]§ 782.04(1)(a), Fla. Stat. > [/CENTER] > _When there will be instructions on both premeditated and felony murder, the following explanatory paragraph should be read to the jury._ > \*\* There are two ways in which a person may be convicted of first degree murder. One is known as premeditated murder and the other is known as felony murder.\*\* > > \*\* To prove the crime of First Degree Premeditated Murder, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:\*\* > > \*\*1. \*\*(Victim) **is dead.** > > **2. \*\*The death was caused by the criminal act of (defendant)**.\*\* > > **3. \*\*There was a premeditated killing of (victim)**.\*\* > > - > > ``` > Definitions.* > > ``` > > \*\* An “act” includes a series of related actions arising from and performed pursuant to a single design or purpose.\*\* > > \*\* “Killing with premeditation” is killing after consciously deciding to do so. The decision must be present in the mind at the time of the killing. The law does not fix the exact period of time that must pass between the formation of the premeditated intent to kill and the killing. The period of time must be long enough to allow reflection by the defendant. The premeditated intent to kill must be formed before the killing.\*\* > > \*\* The question of premeditation is a question of fact to be determined by you from the evidence. It will be sufficient proof of premeditation if the circumstances of the killing and the conduct of the accused convince you beyond a reasonable doubt of the existence of premeditation at the time of the killing.\*\* > > - > > ``` > Transferred intent. Give if applicable.* > > ``` > > \*\* If a person has a premeditated design to kill one person and in attempting to kill that person actually kills another person, the killing is premeditated.\*\* > [@](#): > > 7.3 FELONY MURDER — FIRST DEGREE > [CENTER]§ 782.04(1)(a), Fla. Stat. > [/CENTER] > \*\* To prove the crime of First Degree Felony Murder, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:\*\* > > **1. (Victim) is dead.** > > _Give 2a, 2b, or 2c as applicable._ > **2. a. [The death occurred as a consequence of and while** (defendant) **was engaged in the commission of** (crime alleged)**.]** > > **b. [The death occurred as a consequence of and while (defendant) was attempting to commit (crime alleged).]** > > **c. [The death occurred as a consequence of and while** (defendant) **,** **or an accomplice, was escaping from the immediate scene of** (crime alleged)**.]** > > _Give 3a if defendant actual perpetrator._ > **3. a. [**(Defendant) **was the person who actually killed** (victim)**.]** > > _Give 3b if defendant not actual perpetrator._ > **b. [**(Victim) **was killed by a person other than** (defendant) **;** **but** \*\*both \*\*(defendant) **and the person who killed (victim) were principals in the commission of (crime alleged).]** > > \*\* In order to convict of First Degree Felony Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove that the defendant had a premeditated design or intent to kill.\*\* > > \*1. \*_Define the crime alleged. If Burglary, also define crime that was the object of burglary._ > > \*2. \*_If 2b above is given, also define “attempt” (see 5.1)._ > > \*3. \*_If 3b is given, immediately give principal instruction (3.5(a))._ > \*4. \*_Since the statute does not require its proof, it is not necessary to define “premeditation.”_ > [@](#): > > [CENTER] **7.4 MURDER—SECOND DEGREE** [/CENTER] > [CENTER]§ 782.04(2), Fla.Stat.[/CENTER] > [CENTER] [/CENTER] > \*\* To prove the crime of Second Degree Murder, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:\*\* > > * * * > > **1. (Victim) is dead.** > > * * * > > \*\*2. \*\***The death was caused by the criminal act of (defendant).** > > * * * > > \*\*3. \*\***There was an unlawful killing of (victim) by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.** > > - > - > > - > > ``` > Definitions.* > > ``` > > \*\* An “act” includes a series of related actions arising from and performed pursuant to a single design or purpose.\*\* > > * * * > > \*\* An act is “imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind” if it is an act or series of acts that:\*\* > > * * * > > \*\*1. \*\ ***a person of ordinary judgment would know is reasonably certain to kill or do serious bodily injury to another, and** > > * * * > > \*\*2. \*\ ***is done from ill will, hatred, spite, or an evil intent, and** > > * * * > > \*\*3. \*\ ***is of such a nature that the act itself indicates an indifference to human life.** > > * * * > > \*\* In order to convict of Second Degree Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove the defendant had an intent to cause death.\*\* It should be obvious felony murder does not apply. Both first and second degree murder require an intent element of the crime that will be very difficult to prove. Manslaughter would be the only charge I can imagine the prosecution even hoping to prevail on. I could see a very outside chance they might up-charge to 2nd Degree Murder since the jury in Florida, from what I’ve read, has the option to convict of manslaughter as a lesser included offense on such a charge. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/949 "2012-03-21T00:37:35Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Seems like it was be fairly easy for a forensic analyst to figure out who most likely was yelling on that tape. > > Not that most people with a brain would need anyone to point out the obvious, though. Kind of funny how that voice goes out like a light just when the bullet hit the boy’s chest. No post-shooting moans or gasps or anything. Dead silence. > > A jury is smart enough to connect dots together. That’s why I’m unpersuaded by all the insistence that this case is weak. Only one person in the exchange would be expected to be screaming like that, and it’s NOT the 250 lbs armed individual who hunted Martin down like a rabid animal. It’s NOT the individual who left the safety of his truck to confront a stranger who he had prejudged upfront as dangerous. And it’s NOT the person whose injuries constituted something Alfalfa and Buckwheat would have sustained on a typical day with the rascals. So let’s be real. You are practically physically incapable of posting on this without doing the following: 1. Asserting your claims are so obvious as to be beyond debate. 2. Asserting emotionally loaded and fabricated things about the incident, see: “hunted Martin down like a rabid animal.” 3. Asserting as undeniable fact various assumptions you make about what Zimmerman’s state of mind **must be**. That might make you friends out marching for the “cause” but in the world of a criminal court that kind of argument would have a prosecutor laughed out of court by a judge and probably fired for incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/950 "2012-03-21T00:45:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You really consider SIX FOOT 3 INCHES to look like a KID?!?:eek: You left out the 140lbs, a rather important detail. Not to mention the babyface. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/951 "2012-03-21T00:47:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You mean Zimmerman was yelling for help. A friend of Zimmerman was interviewed on the Todaynshow and said that the voice on the tape was Zimmerman’s. > [@Jenaroph](#): > > And Trayvon’s family swears it’s _his_ voice. This is something that’s in contention and there’s talk of forensic voice analysis, though at the moment I couldn’t point to a cite. Talk of the voice is irrelevant. Why in god’s name would Zimmerman, armed as he was, ready to shoot as he was, be yelling for help? Police records show Zimmerman had [called 911 a total of 46 times](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html) between Jan. 1 and the day he shot Martin. Sounds to me like a man spoiling for an opportunity to use his gun. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/952 "2012-03-21T00:51:14Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > 1. Asserting as undeniable fact various assumptions you make about what Zimmerman’s state of mind **must be**. I think you need to lay down and take a nap, to be honest. You’ve written enough in this thread to kill a computer. One minute you’re agreeing Zimmerman is an idiot who acted unreasonably, the next minute you’re calling Martin a nobody, throwing out racial language about “angry blacks”, and dismissing any piece of evidence that paints a bad picture of both the cops and the shooter. Give me a break. Just on word count alone, you’ve shown yourself to be the most emotionally invested person in this thread. This is my last response to you. Zimmerman laid it out very clearly to us what his state of mind was. He told us he thought the boy was an armed, drugged out criminal. He branded him as an asshole as well, just for being in his neighborhood. So I have assumed nothing about his mind that he didn’t freely volunteer. Stop coming to his defense. He certainly doesn’t need it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/953 "2012-03-21T00:51:21Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > 1. Asserting as undeniable fact various assumptions you make about what Zimmerman’s state of mind **must be**. Zimmerman’s state of mind is not all that mysterious, listen to the tapes. He’s suspicious and resentful of what he perceives to be someone threatening. Based on the fact that…well, Trayvon was there. Walking. Looking around. And in Zimmerman’s mind, that was fucked up somehow and needed to be dealt with. He makes that pretty clear himself, no guessing necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/954 "2012-03-21T00:53:44Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > It should be obvious felony murder does not apply. Both first and second degree murder require an intent element of the crime that will be very difficult to prove. Looks good for second degree to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/955 "2012-03-21T01:00:18Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > What part am I misquoting? What is the correct quote? You said: > [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > ?.. then after the fact says that he didn’t intend on following the teenager… When did he say that? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/956 "2012-03-21T01:02:29Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Looks good for second degree to me. Might as well just charge him with rape and arson too, if we’re going to just start charging people with crimes they certainly did not commit. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/957 "2012-03-21T01:05:00Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Stunningly insightful commentary as usual. It was more insightful than most of the posts in this thread. Really, on a messageboard dedicated to fighting ignorance, it’s sad to see so many people just wallowing in their ignorance and loving every minute of it. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/958 "2012-03-21T01:14:03Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Might as well just charge him with rape and arson too, if we’re going to just start charging people with crimes they certainly did not commit. …or chase, accost, and execute him while claiming self defense. It’s not like “hunks of rotting dead meat” have rights anyways; they certainly cant refute their killers. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/959 "2012-03-21T01:14:47Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Looks good for second degree to me. And of course, you’ve amply demonstrated your keen legal acumen on these boards before. However, I will acknowledge that if the prosecution can prove any illegal motive, they can probably get to second degree murder. But they have to prove that intent beyond a reasonable doubt. Right now, there isn’t enough evidence to do that. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/960 "2012-03-21T01:14:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Dispatcher: Are you following him? > Zimmerman: Yeah > Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that. > Zimmerman: Ok Sure sounds like the lying sack of shit agreed not to follow him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=49)