# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1041 "2012-03-21T15:12:52Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > And as I noted previously, it is very easy to make the case that the act of following a stranger with a loaded gun in your hand, never mind confronting him directly, is an act which is imminently dangerous to another and disregards human life. I don’t agree that following a stranger with a loaded gun in your holster is an act which is imminently dangerous to another and disregards human life. Has any Florida court ever found that following a person while simply possessing a loaded gun is per se imminently dangerous to another and disregards human life? Or is this an ooohhh-guns-are-scary-bad moment? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1042 "2012-03-21T15:12:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > He never said a thing to the dispatcher about going out of the vehicle, did he? You added that. We can infer that he was walking by the sound of his breathing and other movements. Listen to the tape again. He doesn’t sound stationary at all. > [@](#): > > Which is perfectly consistent. He followed martin IN HIS TRUCK, got to a point that he didn’t know which street he was on, and got out of the truck to look at the street sign. Why are you saying this so matter of factly? If Zimmerman couldn’t tell what street he was on without getting out of his truck and despite patrolling those streets for over a year (and it doesn’t sound like a backwater street either, but a major thoroughfare since it was near the clubhouse), then the guy has no business carrying a gun, let alone driving or being outside after dark unattended. But you have no problem accepting this retarded man’s statement at face value. For some reason I am not surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1043 "2012-03-21T15:14:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, he didn’t. You added the “going out of the vehicle” part: > > He never said a thing to the dispatcher about going out of the vehicle, did he? You added that. Yes, he did. I noticed that as well. C’mon, folks, lets work with the facts as they’ve been reported, no embellishing necessary. > [@](#): > > Which is perfectly consistent. He followed martin IN HIS TRUCK, got to a point that he didn’t know which street he was on, and got out of the truck to look at the street sign . And THIS part of his story is laughably ridiculous…or would be if Trayvon wasn’t dead. > [@](#): > > how could the police have used that evidence to decide whether or not to arrest him? They weren’t aware of the phone call when they questioned him. How can you contend this should have been part of the probable cause calculus? Since when does the fact that one man has just shot another dead i the middle of the streeet NOT constitute probable cause to arrest him? Did we all get teansported back to the OK Corral or something? > [@SmellMyWort](#): > > The problem I see here is that all they used to make that determination was _Zimmerman’s own word_ and a minor injury. Yet we have witness accounts of them wrestling before the killing, which could have been started by either Martin or Zimmerman. Why is the killer given the beneift of the doubt in such a situation? If a driver were to hit and kill a pedestrian I expect the cops to rule out contributing factors like distracted driving and being under the influence, not just take the guy’s word that the person just jumped out in front of them. Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1044 "2012-03-21T15:20:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree that following a stranger with a loaded gun in your holster is an act which is imminently dangerous to another and disregards human life. And that would certainly be one way to defend against the charge, but that is a completely different matter than requiring the prosecution to prove intent, and that was your argument, have you forgotten so quickly? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1045 "2012-03-21T15:25:10Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > And that would certainly be one way to defend against the charge, but that is a completely different matter than requiring the prosecution to prove intent, and that was your argument, have you forgotten so quickly? Not in the slightest. I just wanted to make sure that your effort to frame the facts of this case as “following a stranger with a loaded gun in your hand, never mind confronting him directly” was caught and rebutted. That claim can be discussed as a hypo about second degree murder if you wish; there is no evidence it applies to this case. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1046 "2012-03-21T15:26:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, he didn’t. You added the “going out of the vehicle” part Yes, you’re right, I don’t see where he said that. > [@](#): > > Multiple times? I count one time. OK, if you want to quibble about that. He was told, once, not to pursue the suspect, and then told, meet the policeman at this location. If you want to split hairs, you can say that the words “don’t follow the suspect” were only pronounced once. > [@](#): > > Now, hearing the testimony of the girl who was on the phone with Martin, we have new evidence. She says she heard a sequence of voices that does not suggest Martin attacked Zimmerman. She actually hears Martin saying that Zimmerman is chasing hm. Which is the opposite of what Zimmerman claims. > [@](#): > > But how could the police have used that evidence to decide whether or not to arrest him? They weren’t aware of the phone call when they questioned him. How can you contend this should have been part of the probable cause calculus? I never contended that. You are putting words in my mouth. I am contending that, based on what we know now, Zimmerman is lying, and there is evidence to show that his story is a fabrication. In addition, at what point did the police know of the phone call? Did they only know about it when they heard of it in the news, at the same time I did in this thread? The shooting happened 26 February. Either the police knew about it before now, and decided to believe Zimmerman anyway, or else they never knew about it. In which case their investigation was pretty shoddy - wouldn’t you think to check the phone calls or the texts sent by a teenager who was holding a cell phone? And people in this thread want us to trust that, if the police don’t charge someone, obviously they are right and we are wrong, since the police know so much more than we do. In any case, I can’t help but notice you keep on evading the question, do you find Zimmerman’s story credible? Do you still think, based on what we know, that there is not sufficient evidence to charge him? I know lawyer types hate admitting to something that goes against their defense plans, so the thing is to keep quibbling about minor details and avoid the major issue. In a forum like this, I’m not going to call it dishonest debating, but it sure doesn’t make me think that the person is trying to be impartial. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1047 "2012-03-21T15:30:34Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > We can infer that he was walking by the sound of his breathing and other movements. Listen to the tape again. He doesn’t sound stationary at all. He sounds agitated, but I can’t hear anything to make me believe he’s out of his truck. > [@](#): > > Why are you saying this so matter of factly? Sorry. i have tried to be careful about adding phrases like, “…according to him…” or “…as a reasonable possibility…” but failed to do so there. You’re quite correct to call me on it… …but I have to say, having conceded my error, that you’ve peppered this thread with matter-of-fact pronouncements that cast Zimmerman’s conduct in a negative light. It seems to me you’d want to work on the log in your eye now that the speck in mine has been identified. > [@](#): > > If Zimmerman couldn’t tell what street he was on without getting out of his truck and despite patrolling those streets for over a year (and it doesn’t sound like a backwater street either, but a major thoroughfare since it was near the clubhouse), then the guy has no business carrying a gun, let alone driving or being outside after dark unattended. But you have no problem accepting this retarded man’s statement at face value. For some reason I am not surprised. If he was on a major through street, he may well have not known the name of the small cross street. I’ve lived in a small city all my adult life and don’t know every small side street name. I don’t accept it at face value, but I don’t find it inherently incredible either. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1048 "2012-03-21T15:30:45Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > We can infer that he was walking by the sound of his breathing and other movements. Listen to the tape again. He doesn’t sound stationary at all. I think Bricker is saying that Zimmerman was following the teenager in his truck, then got out of his truck to see the street sign, and then kept on following the teenager on foot. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1049 "2012-03-21T15:34:31Z")
[quote=“Bricker, post:1036, topic:615504”] QUOTE] In the transcript you quoted the first “unintelligible” you’re missing sure sounds like “coon.” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1050 "2012-03-21T15:35:11Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > But, for the record, I am white. Very white. I am “I own Julie Andrews CDs” white. So perhaps somehow my opinion will mean more to you than monstro’s does . . . There aren’t enough :rolleyes: in the world to respond to this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1051 "2012-03-21T15:37:11Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > In any case, I can’t help but notice you keep on evading the question, do you find Zimmerman’s story credible? Do you still think, based on what we know, that there is not sufficient evidence to charge him? I know lawyer types hate admitting to something that goes against their defense plans, so the thing is to keep quibbling about minor details and avoid the major issue. In a forum like this, I’m not going to call it dishonest debating, but it sure doesn’t make me think that the person is trying to be impartial. I don’t know… _because I don’t know what, exactly, Zimmerman’s story is._ This has been the problem all along. The police must have interviewed him. They took notes, or, more likely, recorded his statement. I want to know what he said during that interview. And I want to know how it matches up with the other evidence. For example, the girl Martin was on the phone with has come forward, but only after the story went national. I wonder if her recollection of the phone call is colored by the very obvious and very strong public pressure surrounding this case. But for purposes of this analysis, I’d accept it as genuine and see if it fits with Zimmerman’s recorded statement to police. This is why I jumped on your claim that Zimmerman contradicted himself. So far as I can tell from available sources, he hasn’t. Haven’t you seen headlines that say things like, “Legal experts say Florida’s law could make Zimmerman prosecution impossible?” This is why. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1052 "2012-03-21T15:37:47Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Stoid** , you need to understand something (and never will). > > Your opinions on legal matters are not worthless; they are less than that. The fact that you have asserted something or other goes a long way towards establishing that it’s wrong. > > You know the saying ‘a stopped clock is right twice a day’? Yours is digital. > > Regards, > Shodan This is extremely out of line for this forum, **Shodan**. This is a warning, don’t do this again. If you need to speak this harshly again to another poster, feel free to send them a message or take them to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1053 "2012-03-21T15:38:14Z")
[quote=“SmellMyWort, post:1049, topic:615504”] > [@Bricker](#): > > QUOTE] > > In the transcript you quoted the first “unintelligible” you’re missing sure sounds like “coon.” Not to me. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1054 "2012-03-21T15:44:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t know… _because I don’t know what, exactly, Zimmerman’s story is._ So pretty much, your fallback position is, we know what the police chief says is Zimmerman’s story, but they might have some other hidden evidence exculpating him, so I don’t know what the proper course of action is. Maybe they have other hidden evidence that makes his case worse? Could that be true too? If you don’t think we know enough of the story to be able to determine what should happen, I’m surprised you’re even here in this thread saying that the police didn’t have enough evidence to charge Zimmerman. You should be saying “the police may or may not have had enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, people that saying he should have been arrested may or may not be right, Zimmerman may or may not have murdered Martin in cold blood, I have no idea what the truth is.” ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1055 "2012-03-21T15:45:46Z")
[Trayvon - Jasiri X](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKaJoEyYXy) Strong Language. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1056 "2012-03-21T15:50:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The police must have interviewed him. They took notes, or, more likely, recorded his statement. I want to know what he said during that interview. And I want to know how it matches up with the other evidence. And so do we all. > [@](#): > > For example, the girl Martin was on the phone with has come forward, but only after the story went national. I wonder if her recollection of the phone call is colored by the very obvious and very strong public pressure surrounding this case. But for purposes of this analysis, I’d accept it as genuine and see if it fits with Zimmerman’s recorded statement to police. > > This is why I jumped on your claim that Zimmerman contradicted himself. So far as I can tell from available sources, he hasn’t. The police chief himself said that Zimmerman’s story was that he (Zimmerman) was returning to his truck and that Martin jumped him from behind. The girl on the phone with Martin says that Martin told her that Zimmerman was following him. The fact that you want to sweep this under the cover, and claim there is no contradiction here, shows me that you are hopelessly biased in favor of Zimmerman. You will believe things in the press I see that seem to confirm Zimmerman’s story or exculpate him, things that throw doubt in his story obviously need to be verified more diligently. > [@](#): > > Haven’t you seen headlines that say things like, “Legal experts say Florida’s law could make Zimmerman prosecution impossible?” _Could_, not _would_. Do those legal experts have access to all the evidence? Let me ask you this - if in this case Zimmerman’s prosecution is impossible, what is _your_ opinion of the “Stand Your Ground” laws? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1057 "2012-03-21T16:01:06Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > If you don’t think we know enough of the story to be able to determine what should happen, I’m surprised you’re even here in this thread saying that the police didn’t have enough evidence to charge Zimmerman. You should be saying “the police may or may not have had enough evidence to charge Zimmerman, people that saying he should have been arrested may or may not be right, Zimmerman may or may not have murdered Martin in cold blood, I have no idea what the truth is.” Now that I think back, maybe you didn’t specifically say “the police didn’t have enough evidence to charge Zimmerman.” I don’t have time to go through this multiple page thread right now to check. (Just preparing for the preemptive defense of “I never said those exact words”.) ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1058 "2012-03-21T16:02:33Z")
Did anybody else look at a map of this subdivision? It is pretty small. It only has three streets in it. [http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.792162,-81.330912&spn=0.004198,0.008256&vector=1&t=v&z=18&lci=com.panoramio.all](http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.792162,-81.330912&spn=0.004198,0.008256&vector=1&t=v&z=18&lci=com.panoramio.all) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1059 "2012-03-21T16:04:49Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Did anybody else look at a map of this subdivision? It is pretty small. It only has three streets in it. > > [http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.792162,-81.330912&spn=0.004198,0.008256&vector=1&t=v&z=18&lci=com.panoramio.all](http://maps.google.com/?ll=28.792162,-81.330912&spn=0.004198,0.008256&vector=1&t=v&z=18&lci=com.panoramio.all) So it totally makes sense that Zimmerman didn’t know what street he was on! ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1060 "2012-03-21T16:09:16Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/YKaJoEyYXyI/maxresdefault.jpg "Trayvon - Jasiri X") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKaJoEyYXyI) Correcting link to my previous post. I think both the song and video are excellent. Uses Jay-Z/ Kanye Track “No Church in the Wild”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=54)