# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1081 "2012-03-21T18:05:10Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I am informed that, according to legal experts, this may very well happen in this case, and it would be very difficult to prove otherwise. > > Or you could look back to the [case of Joe Horn in Texas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy), mentioned already in this thread, who told a 911 caller that he was grabbing his gun and going out to kill someone, shot a burglar who was running away from him, in the back, and was cleared by a grand jury. Note that the burglar was not in his own home. Joe Horn actually shot two people, and fired three shotgun blasts **and** a Police captain wearing plainclothes observed the whole incident and gave statements that he observed Joe Horn shooting them in the back–and Joe Horn is a free man. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1082 "2012-03-21T18:06:36Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Calling Trayvon Martin a nobody is nothing more than fact, and it has nothing to do with race. It’s simply to illustrate a point that one random teenager in Florida, no matter how unfairly he has been treated, should be reason to throw out 225+ years of constitutional freedoms and protections and rule of law. Calling the murder victim a nobody is a gratuitous stab at a dead minor. Most of us would call this poor manners. I don’t care if you’re the CEO of a mega corporation or a homeless wino, if someone murders you, then the state owes it to you to conduct a thorough investigation. It appears to this observer that did not happen. When the victim, not the shooter, gets a drug test AND a background check, what does that tell you? Nobody says we should throw out the legal system over this. When the system seems to cough up a hairball, as it did here, it’s the public’s right and duty to raise an almighty stink about it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1083 "2012-03-21T18:07:36Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I am informed that, according to legal experts, this may very well happen in this case, and it would be very difficult to prove otherwise. > > Or you could look back to the [case of Joe Horn in Texas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy), mentioned already in this thread, who told a 911 caller that he was grabbing his gun and going out to kill someone, shot a burglar who was running away from him, in the back, and was cleared by a grand jury. Note that the burglar was not in his own home. The Grand Jury doesn’t even meet until April 10, so this is all speculation, right? Before you say that the SYG law is evil in this case, waiting until at least the GJ comes back with a bill might not be too premature, eh? In the other case you cite, there is no doubt the two men were burglars, actively committing a break-in to his neighbor’s house. While of course we can still condemn the use of deadly force here, it is not a case” where an armed vigilante can kill an innocent person and easily get away with it” since clearly there were not “innocent”. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1084 "2012-03-21T18:12:57Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > How, in the world, is any part of the girl’s statement hearsay? Martin wasn’t retelling a secondhand story; he was narrating his last living moments. The stuff he wasn’t narrating the girl heard **firsthand**. What do you think hearsay is? The girl would be on the stand, testifying, “I hear Martin say that …” The testimony would be offered to try to prove that what Martin said actually happened. That is hearsay. It can’t get any hearsay-ier. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1085 "2012-03-21T18:13:03Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Joe Horn actually shot two people, and fired three shotgun blasts **and** a Police captain wearing plainclothes observed the whole incident and gave statements that he observed Joe Horn shooting them in the back–and Joe Horn is a free man. Yes, isn’t that what I said? this is another great example of why these “Stand Your Ground” rules are a terrible idea. > [@DrDeth](#): > > The Grand Jury doesn’t even meet until April 10, so this is all speculation, right? Before you say that the SYG law is evil in this case, waiting until at least the GJ comes back with a bill might not be too premature, eh? The mere fact that legal experts are saying that Mr. Zimmerman could get out of his car, follow a teenager against police advice, shoot him and kill him, and likely get off due to Stand your Ground laws, is enough to convince me, even if in this case there’s a conviction. > [@](#): > > In the other case you cite, there is no doubt the two men were burglars, actively committing a break-in to his neighbor’s house. While of course we can still condemn the use of deadly force here, it is not a case” where an armed vigilante can kill an innocent person and easily get away with it” since clearly there were not “innocent”. I didn’t mean it as an exact parallel to this case, I meant it as a clear example of why Stand Your Ground laws should be repealed, as I said above. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1086 "2012-03-21T18:13:57Z")
There’s also no evidence that SYG had anything to do with the Grand Jury’s decision in the Horn case. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1087 "2012-03-21T18:14:40Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Joe Horn actually shot two people, and fired three shotgun blasts **and** a Police captain wearing plainclothes observed the whole incident and gave statements that he observed Joe Horn shooting them in the back–and Joe Horn is a free man. Joe Horn is damn lucky to live in a state where a lot of people think the Wild West was the good old days. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1088 "2012-03-21T18:15:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There’s also no evidence that SYG had anything to do with the Grand Jury’s decision in the Horn case. OK then, I am willing to be enlightened, what was Mr. Horn’s defense? Why is shooting someone in the back not a crime in Texas? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1089 "2012-03-21T18:19:50Z")
Grand Jury proceedings are almost always secret, and in general, the defendant is not allowed to present a defense. So, he had no defense. The Prosecution presents their evidence, and the GJ decides if there is enough evidence to proceed with a prosecution, trial, etc. Thus, ipso facto, the State did not have enough evidence to proceed. I have actually sat on a Grand Jury. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1090 "2012-03-21T18:22:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What do you think hearsay is? > > The girl would be on the stand, testifying, “I hear Martin say that …” > > The testimony would be offered to try to prove that what Martin said actually happened. > > That is hearsay. It can’t get any hearsay-ier. With that being said, I have heard of cases where hearsay evidence is admissible because the original speaker is dead and can no longer give direct evidence. Are you saying, Bricker, that her evidence would not be allowed in court? ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1091 "2012-03-21T18:22:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, it shows I have a smattering of understanding about the law of evidence. > > Zimmerman can repeat his story at trial. > > The girl’s statement is hearsay. > > No comment. Present sense impression? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1092 "2012-03-21T18:23:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What do you think hearsay is? > > The girl would be on the stand, testifying, “I hear Martin say that …” > > The testimony would be offered to try to prove that what Martin said actually happened. > > That is hearsay. It can’t get any hearsay-ier. Considering that Martin was killed shortly after this, could this be considered a [dying declaration](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_declarations)? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1093 "2012-03-21T18:24:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Grand Jury proceedings are almost always secret, and in general, the defendant is not allowed to present a defense. So, he had no defense. The Prosecution presents their evidence, and the GJ decides if there is enough evidence to proceed with a prosecution, trial, etc. Thus, ipso facto, the State did not have enough evidence to proceed. > > I have actually sat on a Grand Jury. All right, if we’re going to split hairs (I swear it’s like pulling teeth to get a straight answer out of people in this thread), why would the evidence that Mr. Horn shot a fleeing person in the back not be sufficient to proceed with a prosecution or trial in Texas? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1094 "2012-03-21T18:30:41Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > All right, if we’re going to split hairs (I swear it’s like pulling teeth to get a straight answer out of people in this thread), why would the evidence that Mr. Horn shot a fleeing person in the back not be sufficient to proceed with a prosecution or trial in Texas? Have you ever sat on a Grand Jury? Do you understand how GJ proceedings work in the USA? Here you go: > **[Grand juries in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_juries_in_the_United_States)** > > Grand juries in the United States are groups of citizens empowered by United States federal or state law to conduct legal proceedings, chiefly investigating potential criminal conduct and determining whether criminal charges should be brought. > Like the jury system as a whole, grand juries originated in England and spread throughout the colonies of the British Empire as part of the English common law system. Today, the United States is one of only two jurisdictions, along with Liberia, that conti... Note this line “The target of a grand jury investigation has no right to testify or put on a defense before the grand jury”. So Joe Horn or his attorney made no claim as to a SYG defense before the GJ. So- I don’t know. No-one, except those 16 or so people that sat on that GJ, will ever know. The deliberations are secret. Speculation is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1095 "2012-03-21T18:35:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Have you ever sat on a Grand Jury? No. > [@](#): > > Do you understand how GJ proceedings work in the USA? I have a general idea. > [@](#): > > Here you go: > > [Grand juries in the United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_juries_in_the_United_States) > > Note this line “The target of a grand jury investigation has no right to testify or put on a defense before the grand jury”. So Joe Horn or his attorney made no claim as to a SYG defense before the GJ. > > So- I don’t know. No-one, except those 16 or so people that sat on that GJ, will ever know. The deliberations are secret. OK then. > [@](#): > > Speculation is pointless. No, this I disagree with. I think it’s perfectly acceptable to speculate that the jurors refused to indict Mr. Horn because they thought his behaviour fit the definition of the law, and then try to figure out what law they thought would apply in this case. Isn’t that how Grand Jurys work? Or, since you’ve been on one, perhaps you can tell me. Are people on a Grand Jury expected or instructed to make a decision disregarding any laws? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1096 "2012-03-21T18:39:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. There is an intent element of second degree murder in Florida. It’s just not “intent to commit murder.” Really? I’m totally open to being enlightened. What intent is it? Here’s the Florida murder statute in its entirety (unfortunately your insistence on skirting the details means I have to whip out my fonts and styles…sigh…) > [@](#): > > **782.04 Murder.** — > (1) > (a) The unlawful killing of a human being: > [INDENT]1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being; > 2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:[/INDENT] > [INDENT][INDENT]a. Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1), > b. Arson, > c. Sexual battery, > d. Robbery, > e. Burglary, > f. Kidnapping, > g. Escape, > h. Aggravated child abuse, > i. Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult, > j. Aircraft piracy, > k. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb, > l. Carjacking, > m. Home-invasion robbery, > n. Aggravated stalking, > o. Murder of another human being, > p. Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, > q. Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism; or > [/INDENT][/INDENT] > [INDENT]3. Which resulted from the unlawful distribution of any substance controlled under s.893.03(1), cocaine as described in s. 893.03(2)(a)4., opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium, or methadone by a person 18 years of age or older, when such drug is proven to be the proximate cause of the death of the user,[/INDENT] > is murder in the first degree and constitutes a capital felony, punishable as provided in s.775.082. > (b) In all cases under this section, the procedure set forth in s. 921.141 shall be followed in order to determine sentence of death or life imprisonment. > > _ **\*\*\*** _\_\_\_\_\_\_ > (2)The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by \*\*any act \*\*imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, \*\ ***although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual,** \*\*\*\*is \*\ ***murder** in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. > > _ **\*\*\*** _\_\_\_\_\_\_ > > (3)When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:(a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1), > (b) Arson, > (c) Sexual battery, > (d) Robbery, > (e) Burglary, > (f) Kidnapping, > (g) Escape, > (h) Aggravated child abuse, > (i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult, > (j) Aircraft piracy, > (k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb, > (l) Carjacking, > (m) Home-invasion robbery, > (n) Aggravated stalking, > (o) Murder of another human being, > (p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or > (q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism, > > by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.[/INDENT] > > _ **\*\*\*** _\_\_\_\_\_\_ > (4) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated without any design to effect death, by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any felony other than any: > (a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1), > (b) Arson, > (c) Sexual battery, > (d) Robbery, > (e) Burglary, > (f) Kidnapping, > (g) Escape, > (h) Aggravated child abuse, > (i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult, > (j) Aircraft piracy, > (k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb, > (l) Unlawful distribution of any substance controlled under s. 893.03(1), cocaine as described in s. 893.03(2)(a)4., or opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium by a person 18 years of age or older, when such drug is proven to be the proximate cause of the death of the user, > (m) Carjacking, > (n) Home-invasion robbery, > (o) Aggravated stalking, > (p) Murder of another human being, > (q) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or > (r) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism, > is murder in the third degree and constitutes a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. > > _ **\*\*\*** _\_\_\_\_\_\_ > > (5) As used in this section, the term “terrorism” means an activity that: > (a) > [INDENT]1. Involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life which is a violation of the criminal laws of this state or of the United States; or > 2. Involves a violation of s. 815.06; and[/INDENT] > (b) Is intended to: > > [INDENT]1. Intimidate, injure, or coerce a civilian population; > 2. Influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or > 3. Affect the conduct of government through destruction of property, assassination, murder, kidnapping, or aircraft piracy.[/INDENT] [ul] [li]Do you agree that statutes exist for the purpose of defining what the laws are?[/li][li]Do you agree that this is Florida’s statute defining the crime of murder?[/li][li]Do you agree that Sections (1) - (4) each describe very specific circumstances that are considered differing “degrees” of murder? [/li][li]Do you agree that Section (2), which has been the section referred to since someone else first posted the statute and is the section I have consistently and clearly specified in my argument that no intent is needed, describes circumstances which completely lack anything having to do with intention of any kind, either to kill someone or to commit any criminal act at all, and in fact specifically note that no intention is necessary?[/li][li]If your answer is no, you do not agree that Section 2 means this (which thus far has been your position, obviously) can you explain what it is you see in these words defining the law that lead you to not agree?[/li][/ul] > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I’ve seen less projection going on at the cineplex. 🆒 > [@Bricker](#): > > So if he’s concentrating on following a person, he may well end up not knowing if he’s at the corner of Retreat View and Long Oak, or Retreat View and Twin Trees, or Twin Trees and Long Oak. In fact, there are two different locations at which Retreat View and Twin Trees intersect. Wait… following a person? You said there was no evidence that he was following Martin. So was he following Martin or not? And if he was following Martin, how is it that Martin attacked him unexpectedly? > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Regardless, it was mere minutes after that call that Martin was dead. Did Zimmerman somehow get lost in the maze of those three streets in minutes? Evidently he did…the guy is a tool for sure. > [@Bricker](#): > > The girl’s statement is hearsay. > [@orcenio](#): > > How, in the world, is any part of the girl’s statement hearsay? Martin wasn’t retelling a secondhand story; he was narrating his last living moments. The stuff he wasn’t narrating the girl heard firsthand. Hearsay is VERY complex and convoluted and so not what you see on TV. Seriously. Hearsay is unfuckingbelievably complex and you so don’t want to even try to wrap your head around it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1097 "2012-03-21T18:50:00Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > With that being said, I have heard of cases where hearsay evidence is admissible because the original speaker is dead and can no longer give direct evidence. Are you saying, Bricker, that her evidence would not be allowed in court? There are cases where that happens, yes, but they typically involve circumstances that are not present here. For example, hearsay may be admitted into evidence if it is former testimony, given as a witness at a trial, hearing, or deposition, if the witness was subject to cross-examination at the time. Or it could be the dying declaration mentioned by **iiandyiiii** , but that only applies when the declarer is near death, knows he’s near death, and is saying who injured him. Finally, it could be a statement against Martin’s own interest. It’s possible that **sciurophobic** ’s idea would work: present sense impression. A statement made made by the declarant describing an event, made while the event is happening, would be admissible. It all depends on what, specifically, Martin said. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1098 "2012-03-21T18:50:55Z")
Stood, go read the wikipesia entry on “Intention (criminal law)” and pay special attention to “general intent.” As we have stated to you several times, you cantjust read some statutes and think you fully understand the law. ---
**Author:** ![Hmmmm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Hmmmm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hmmmm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1099 "2012-03-21T18:51:19Z")
Zimmerman definitely referred to the kid as a “coon” at 2:21 [Zimmerman heard calling Trayvon Martin "Coon" on 911 Call - YouTube](http://youtu.be/9OT7olbN5JI) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1100 "2012-03-21T18:54:30Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Really? I’m totally open to being enlightened. What intent is it? No, you’re not. I learned my lesson last time, Stoid. I, and several other lawyers on these boards, spent hours and hundreds of keystrokes explaining why your pro se petition had severe problems, and you responded with pages upon pages of utter garbage. I suspect that, to this day, you feel you were wronged by the corrupt judge and the stupid appeals court, who, if they had only the legal insight you possess, would have decided your case differently. But what I learned from that experience is that the last thing you’re open to is being enlightened. You’re open to anything which confirms your existing train of thought, and absolutely closed to anything else. So I’m going to decline your kind invitation to dance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=56)