# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1141 "2012-03-21T22:28:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Now are you going to say that we need to lynch Joe? That’s a fine speech, but that’s not what I was asking. If the DA is going after Joe Horn in front of the grand jury with the aim of prosecuting him, why would he mention anything other than, “Dude ganked them in the back.” Why would he bring up - they didn’t stop when he told them to; the medical examiner couldn’t tell if they were really shot in the back; and there was a shiny knife in the lawn? That’s a shit load of exculpatory evidence. Why would something like that be presented to a grand jury? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1142 "2012-03-21T22:28:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Umm, no. Please read the thread, and Bricker’s excellent article on how a GRAND Jury works. If you haven’t noticed, this thread is over 1100 post longs. Either post the number of the post you think is relevant or quote the parts you think are relevant. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1143 "2012-03-21T22:31:14Z")
Not that it matters much–especially since I’m only going to be accused of being biased and angry–but I heard “coon” too. How anyone could hear “punk”, I don’t know. And yes, “coon” is still used. As is “jigaboo”, “porch monkey”, “pickaninny”, and “spook”. Some people have amazing vocabularies. But it only matters what he said if they try to go at this from the hate crime angle. Which I would rather they not do. (It’s okay for me to express this opinion, right? Or is even this too presumptuous on my part?) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1144 "2012-03-21T22:34:39Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > That’s a fine speech, but that’s not what I was asking. > > If the DA is going after Joe Horn in front of the grand jury with the aim of prosecuting him, why would he mention anything other than, “Dude ganked them in the back.” > > Why would he bring up - they didn’t stop when he told them to; the medical examiner couldn’t tell if they were really shot in the back; and there was a shiny knife in the lawn? That’s a shit load of exculpatory evidence. Why would something like that be presented to a grand jury? Please read Bricker’s excellent article on how a GRAND Jury works. The DA can’t lie or mislead the GJ. Doing so can get him removed from office. The Police officer, etc now must testify under oath, in detail- not just a short preliminary police report. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1145 "2012-03-21T22:36:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, second-guessing a GJ is not a good thing to do. If you do so, you are always acting under ignorance. Always. Suppose a prosecutor has a case that he thinks he can’t win or doesn’t believe in? He can present the case as weakly as he chooses; after all, they operate in secrecy. It’s hardly infallible and there are a good reasons they aren’t used in many states or in any other common-law nation. Personally, I think they runn counter to defendants right to due process. Is it really even a jury if it only receives testimony from the prosecution? Beyond that, the “jury” isn’t selected in the same manner of a trial jury. Pretty much any yahoo can sit on a grand jury without their prejudices and biases being challenged. ETA: Of course, the scenario I mentioned can obviously (and often does) work the other way around, wherein the prosecutor trumps up a weak case to get an indictment. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1146 "2012-03-21T22:37:19Z")
I read the Cliff Notes version: > [@Bricker](#): > > The prosecutor has no obligation to present exculpatory evidence to the grand jury. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1147 "2012-03-21T22:41:56Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If you haven’t noticed, this thread is over 1100 post longs. Either post the number of the post you think is relevant or quote the parts you think are relevant. Posts 1083, 1086, 1089, 1094, 1105, , 1113, 1123, and esp 1109 ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1148 "2012-03-21T23:35:22Z")
**Bricker** ’s staff report on Grand Juries was good, but it does note: > [@](#): > > The twelve-person body became a twenty-four-person grand jury during the reign of Edward III (1312-1377). That’s actually Edward III’s life span, not his reign, he wasn’t crowned until 1327. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1149 "2012-03-21T23:40:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, it shows I have a smattering of understanding about the law of evidence. > > Zimmerman can repeat his story at trial. > > The girl’s statement is hearsay. My knowledge of the law comes from half remembered Law & Order episodes, but isn’t there a dying declaration exception to the hearsay rule? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1150 "2012-03-21T23:50:29Z")
Bricker, are you willing to wager money (or booze) that Zimmerman will _not_ be arrested? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1151 "2012-03-22T00:04:40Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Not that it matters much–especially since I’m only going to be accused of being biased and angry–but I heard “coon” too. How anyone could hear “punk”, I don’t know. And yes, “coon” is still used. As is “jigaboo”, “porch monkey”, “pickaninny”, and “spook”. Some people have amazing vocabularies. > > But it only matters what he said if they try to go at this from the hate crime angle. Which I would rather they not do. > > (It’s okay for me to express this opinion, right? Or is even this too presumptuous on my part?) Sounds like fucking corpse to me (using headphones) so I would interpret that as fucking cops. Also sounds like bleed through from what the dispatcher said but that would mean they’re using magnetic tape. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1152 "2012-03-22T01:36:05Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > My knowledge of the law comes from half remembered Law & Order episodes, but isn’t there a dying declaration exception to the hearsay rule? Yes, there is, but this doesn’t fit it. The dying declaration applies when the declarant is near death, knows he is near death, and is speaking about who wounded or injured him. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1153 "2012-03-22T01:37:06Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Bricker, are you willing to wager money (or booze) that Zimmerman will _not_ be arrested? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1154 "2012-03-22T01:39:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Please read Bricker’s excellent article on how a GRAND Jury works. > > The DA can’t lie or mislead the GJ. Doing so can get him removed from office. > > The Police officer, etc now must testify under oath, in detail- not just a short preliminary police report. Oh and also, the GJ has two other tools: they can say “Ok Jerkwad, so No Bill for you!”. :p(unlikely) or they can simply use their powers of subpeona to get all the witnesses in they want, and grill them as they please, and no “taking the 5th” during a GJ questioning (there are certain exceptions to this, I’ll leave those to our legal beagles to explain). The GJ also doesn’t sit there like so many bobble-heads, they are free to ask whatever questions they want. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1155 "2012-03-22T01:45:49Z")
So, IF the Grand Jury comes back with no indictment In this Zimmerman case, it means to me that they were presented with evidence that has not been (and likely will not be) presented to the public, and that evidence made it clear the case against Zimmerman was extremely weak. To weak to even bring charges. Certainly they will get evidence we will not read about. But it won’t nessesarily mean that SYG had anything to do with their decision. Nw, if it goes to a trial and then a jury, we will find out how heavily the Defense relies upon SYG. Post-trial interviews may even reveal how convincing that was to the jury. Then you can start condeming SYG. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1156 "2012-03-22T01:50:15Z")
No need to wait to condemn SYG or secret proceedings. They’re both dangerous bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1157 "2012-03-22T01:52:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Then you can start condeming SYG. The fact that we’ve had a trillion page long discussion about this case indicates that something is not right. If it weren’t for SYG, no one but the people involved would even know about this thing. I’ve learned enough about SYG to feel comfortable condemning it, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1158 "2012-03-22T02:08:18Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The fact that we’ve had a trillion page long discussion about this case indicates that something is not right. No, darling, it does not. All it indicates is that people in general, and Dopers in this specific, are willing to repeat themselves endlessly in an on-line argument. If we cut the repetition and rephrasing, this thread is only a page or two of substantive posts. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1159 "2012-03-22T02:19:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, there is, but this doesn’t fit it. The dying declaration applies when the declarant is near death, knows he is near death, and is speaking about who wounded or injured him. Florida law allows [certain exceptions](http://law.onecle.com/florida/evidence/90.803.html) from the hearsay rule: > [@](#): > > 90.803 Hearsay exceptions; availability of declarant immaterial. > > The provision of s. 90.802 to the contrary notwithstanding, the following are not inadmissible as evidence, even though the declarant is available as a witness: > (1) SPONTANEOUS STATEMENT.–A spontaneous statement describing or explaining an event or condition made while the declarant was perceiving the event or condition, or immediately thereafter, except when such statement is made under circumstances that indicate its lack of trustworthiness. > > (2) EXCITED UTTERANCE.–A statement or excited utterance relating to a startling event or condition made while the declarant was under the stress of excitement caused by the event or condition. > > (3) THEN-EXISTING MENTAL, EMOTIONAL, OR PHYSICAL CONDITION.– > > (a) A statement of the declarant’s then-existing state of mind, emotion, or physical sensation, including a statement of intent, plan, motive, design, mental feeling, pain, or bodily health, when such evidence is offered to: > > 1. Prove the declarant’s state of mind, emotion, or physical sensation at that time or at any other time when such state is an issue in the action. > > 2. Prove or explain acts of subsequent conduct of the declarant. It seems to this amateur legal sleuth that Trayvon’s statement to his girlfriend falls under one or all of these categories. Trayvon was describing an event that was happening to him at precisely the time that he was perceiving it. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1160 "2012-03-22T02:23:52Z")
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