# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 91
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1801 "2012-03-25T21:44:06Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > There are **three** streets in that neighborhood which GZ has lived in for a while. > > Just saying that is, “odd.” > > 28°47’37.42"N 81°19’50.78"W > > [Google Maps](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=28%C2%B047'37.42%22N++81%C2%B019'50.78%22W&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.909425,99.404297&vpsrc=6&t=h&ie=UTF8&ll=28.79319,-81.329974&spn=0.006657,0.012134&z=17&iwloc=A&ved=0CA8QpQY&sa=X&ei=zIBvT9X6K4GyNq7p6aoC) I already made this point multiple times, using the same map. I suppose it is possible that he was actually looking for a house number. While I’m here, I’d like to point that very few people will walk 1.6 miles for a box of Skittles and a can of Iced tea. Trayvon’s father has already said Trayvon was bored. Martin left to get out of the house, not to get Skittles. The fact that Martin’s father didn’t call to report him missing until the next day, makes me suspect me that there was an argument before Trayvon left his Father’s girlfriend town home. Otherwise, why wouldn’t his Father start looking for him after a couple of hours when he didn’t answer his cell phone? Remember Trayvon didn’t have any friends in town. He lived in Miami, not Sanford. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1802 "2012-03-25T21:50:13Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > “Not only that, Section 776.032 provides immunity from arrest unless the police have “probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.” Again, the law creates a Catch-22: police cannot arrest the suspect unless they have probable cause, not just to believe there was a killing, but also that the killing was not in self-defense; and where, as is often the case, the defendant is the only living witness to the alleged crime, the police likely will not be able to form probable cause without interrogating the suspect.” > Certainly explains the insanity of the cops saying “Well, he said it was self-defense…” The fact that Zimmerman was taken by police to the station immediately after the incident and interrogated is in the initial police report. So the article you’re quoting is full of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1803 "2012-03-25T21:59:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The fact that Zimmerman was taken by police to the station immediately after the incident and interrogated is in the initial police report. So the article you’re quoting is full of crap. No, everything I’ve heard says that Mr. Zimmerman volunteered to come to the station they did not make him do so. Additionally, the claim from the police department has been: it was self-defense therefore we could do nothing. Therefore the article I’m quoting from is not full of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1804 "2012-03-25T22:00:36Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I already made this point multiple times, using the same map. I suppose it is possible that he was actually looking for a house number. > > While I’m here, I’d like to point that very few people will walk 1.6 miles for a box of Skittles and a can of Iced tea. Trayvon’s father has already said Trayvon was bored. Martin left to get out of the house, not to get Skittles. The fact that Martin’s father didn’t call to report him missing until the next day, makes me suspect me that there was an argument before Trayvon left his Father’s girlfriend town home. Otherwise, why wouldn’t his Father start looking for him after a couple of hours when he didn’t answer his cell phone? Remember Trayvon didn’t have any friends in town. He lived in Miami, not Sanford. What exactly is the point you’re making? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1805 "2012-03-25T22:01:58Z")
The Catch-22 scenario they posit is crap, though. You can interview someone without arresting them. In fact, _all interviews_ are totally voluntary in American criminal procedure. The law didn’t do anything to change that fact, if a suspect doesn’t want to talk to police it’s hard-coded constitutional law that he does not have to submit to an interview. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1806 "2012-03-25T22:02:58Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > No, everything I’ve heard says that Mr. Zimmerman volunteered to come to the station they did not make him do so. Additionally, the claim from the police department has been: it was self-defense therefore we could do nothing. > Therefore the article I’m quoting from is not full of crap. The article says they couldn’t interrogate him. They did - from what I have seen in the news one videotaped interrogation and 3 others. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1807 "2012-03-25T22:05:10Z")
Apparently Zimmerman’s friends fear for his safety: [link](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE82O0F820120325) Just curious (and this isn’t a loaded question, or intended to be), how many people hear would categorically denounce the act if someone murders Zimmerman? Or would people be willing to hem-and-haw about how they can understand the motivation? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1808 "2012-03-25T22:05:47Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I already made this point multiple times, using the same map. I suppose it is possible that he was actually looking for a house number. > > While I’m here, I’d like to point that very few people will walk 1.6 miles for a box of Skittles and a can of Iced tea. Trayvon’s father has already said Trayvon was bored. Martin left to get out of the house, not to get Skittles. The fact that Martin’s father didn’t call to report him missing until the next day, makes me suspect me that there was an argument before Trayvon left his Father’s girlfriend town home. Otherwise, why wouldn’t his Father start looking for him after a couple of hours when he didn’t answer his cell phone? Remember Trayvon didn’t have any friends in town. He lived in Miami, not Sanford. I would walk that far if there was nothing else to do and no snacks in the house. The father says they called the phone over and over again. Now, I think it’s strange that he didn’t go looking around the neighborhood–because surely then they would have seen the crime scene (assuming it had been cordoned off and secured…which is hella creepy if it hadn’t). But I don’t think there’s any reason to suspect Travyon was up to no good, doing bad shit because he was bored. He was on the phone, talking to his girl, walking around in a boring suburban town, probably talking about how homesick he was. The father probably thought to himself when it got late and Trayvon wasn’t back yet, “Well, he’s at that age. He’s almost a grown man. And this place is safe enough. I’ll just keep trying his phone.” Many people erroneously believe they can’t call the police until a certain time has passed when a person has gone missing. And I could see his father being worried sick all night long, but keeping hope alive that Trayvon would walk through the door any minute now, so no need to call the police and make a big deal out of nothing. Regardless, it’s not relevant to what happened between him and Zimmerman. He did have the Skittles and iced tea. He didn’t have a car radio under his arm or a gun in his waistban. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1809 "2012-03-25T22:06:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The article says they couldn’t interrogate him. They did - from what I have seen in the news one videotaped interrogation and 3 others. Right, and the SYG wouldn’t even change the situation in regard to interrogations. In all 50 states any police interview is 100% voluntary, you are not required to answer anything more than minor identification questions when asked by a police officer. Regardless of self defense laws. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1810 "2012-03-25T22:08:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The article says they couldn’t interrogate him. They did - from what I have seen in the news one videotaped interrogation and 3 others. “Couldn’t” is different than “didn’t”– Mr. Zimmerman came willingly. had he chosen not to come the article makes the point that the police could not have arrested him to forcibly interrogate him. Normally the fact that he had shot someone would be sufficient probable cause: Ask Kimmy. The point is that under this incredibly bad law, normal probable cause to arrest someone goes away when they claim self-defense. Which is insane, because that’s what courts are for. As I’ve been saying repeatedly. You do not determine guilt or innocence at the investigation stage. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1811 "2012-03-25T22:09:17Z")
I will note that a 3.2 mile round trip for Skittles is not the wisest decision, you will burn probably 270-280 calories on the walk and the standard Skittles bag only contains around 240 calories worth of energy. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1812 "2012-03-25T22:10:24Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > “Couldn’t” is different than “didn’t”– Mr. Zimmerman came willingly. had he chosen not to come the article makes the point that the police could not have arrested him to forcibly interrogate him. Normally the fact that he had shot someone would be sufficient probable cause: Ask Kimmy. The point is that under this incredibly bad law, normal probable cause to arrest someone goes away when they claim self-defense. Which is insane, because that’s what courts are for. As I’ve been saying repeatedly. You do not determine guilt or innocence at the investigation stage. You can’t forcibly interrogate someone. I think you are, as per **Bricker** , really demonstrating how little you know about the law and how all you’re interested in is just saying a bunch of stuff to echo your preconceptions here. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1813 "2012-03-25T22:10:52Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > “Couldn’t” is different than “didn’t”– Mr. Zimmerman came willingly. had he chosen not to come the article makes the point that the police could not have arrested him to forcibly interrogate him. You do understand that police cannot “forcibly interrogate” anyone - whether they arrest them or not, right? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1814 "2012-03-25T22:12:24Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Right, and the SYG wouldn’t even change the situation in regard to interrogations. In all 50 states any police interview is 100% voluntary, you are not required to answer anything more than minor identification questions when asked by a police officer. Regardless of self defense laws. . Ignoring what it actually says! Interrogation is only voluntary if you’re not arrested. Normally, when you are standing over a dead body with a gun in your hand saying I shot him, that is probable cause to arrest you. Making you subject to interrogation. Which you still may refuse, Of course. And your lawyer whom you should call will tell you to shut the fuck up. but at least you are in custody and the investigation is moving forward without you being given the opportunity either to flee or to alter evidence. That any law would be written so as to prevent you from being subject to arrest, based on your claim of self-defense, is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1815 "2012-03-25T22:15:09Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > . Ignoring what it actually says! Interrogation is only voluntary if you’re not arrested. Interrogation is voluntary when you’re arrested too. That’s what “you have the right to remain silent” means. > [@](#): > > but at least you are in custody and the investigation is moving forward without you being given the opportunity either to flee or to alter evidence. How could Zimmerman “alter evidence” when he was in the police station? And did he flee? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1816 "2012-03-25T22:15:30Z")
No, interrogation is always voluntary. If it isn’t, it’s a constitutional rights violation. The only interrogations that aren’t voluntary are either illegal or being conducted by the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1817 "2012-03-25T22:17:41Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Apparently Zimmerman’s friends fear for his safety: > > [link](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE82O0F820120325) > > Just curious (and this isn’t a loaded question, or intended to be), how many people hear would categorically denounce the act if someone murders Zimmerman? Or would people be willing to hem-and-haw about how they can understand the motivation? Why wouldn’t someone denounce it? imho, The thing is, the whole point of this shebang, is that the wheels of justice seem to have hit a bump and lost some traction in this case. More circumvention of the methods and procedures established for handling these sorts of things is merely more of whats wrong here. Understanding the motivation or no, is different than condoning. imho ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1818 "2012-03-25T22:19:44Z")
[http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2012/03/trayvon-martin-and-floridas-stand-your-ground-law.html](http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2012/03/trayvon-martin-and-floridas-stand-your-ground-law.html) If you wish to argue further with the points made in the article, take it up with the law professor who wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1819 "2012-03-25T22:21:56Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I will note that a 3.2 mile round trip for Skittles is not the wisest decision, you will burn probably 270-280 calories on the walk and the standard Skittles bag only contains around 240 calories worth of energy. I am only getting 0.9 mile each way [http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=from:+28.7920908052,-81.3292471205+to:+28.7923080495,-81.3414257234&bav=on.2,or.r\_gc.r\_pw.r\_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1227&bih=916&wrapid=tlif133271405935310&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=from:+28.7920908052,-81.3292471205+to:+28.7923080495,-81.3414257234&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1227&bih=916&wrapid=tlif133271405935310&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1820 "2012-03-25T22:24:48Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > How could Zimmerman “alter evidence” when he was in the police station? And did he flee? Follow along: part of this is about the larger ideas under underlying stand your ground, other parts are about this case specifically. Stand your ground is a stupid law if it prevents the cops from arresting people who claim self-defense, And arresting people after they kill other people is generally considered a good idea throughout the land. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=90) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=92)