# Why hasn't the Neighborhood Watch shooter been arrested? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504 "2012-03-12T00:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 98
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1941 "2012-03-26T21:41:21Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > At what point? I don’t understand the question. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1942 "2012-03-26T21:45:21Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t understand the question. you said, “It’s pretty clear at this point Martin decided to stop and confront Zimmerman.” I suspect that is the point in question. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1943 "2012-03-26T21:46:35Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Where does that detail come from? > > The police report lists his body as being found between two addresses which match up with the news footage of the night of the incident. The spot is between the two northern buildings. Iirc, Martin’s fiancee lived in a more southern building. Many articles like this [one](http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46781618/ns/today-today_people/t/mom-trayvon-martin-was-killed-because-color-his-skin/) report that Martin was killed less than 70 feet from his dad’s fiancee’s house. Much ado was also made about how long Martin’s dad went clueless about his son’s demise despite being so close to the crime scene. If anyone feels like playing around with maps, it would be helpful to see how close his dad’s house is to the entrance of the backyard walkway. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1944 "2012-03-26T21:48:05Z")
And of course, Zimmerman knew (by the hoodie, I suppose) what an incorrigible criminal he was dealing with. You don’t want to go around unarmed when there’s a pot-smoking, high-school graffiti artist casing your neighborhood. Nothing being dug up on Martin points to him being that different from 1000’s of 17 year olds. When I was 17 I got suspended for getting into a fist-fight in the hallway. Should I be monitored now in case I feel like menacing a gated community with my evil ways? Nothing in this case convinces me that Zimmerman is without blame. I’m not even saying that Martin may not have punched him, but Martin would never have been in that position if Barney Fife hadn’t come to the conclusion that he just wasn’t happy with a black kid walking down his streets. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1945 "2012-03-26T21:48:44Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Maybe, but what if Martin surprised Zimmerman, punched him and never really saw the gun. There are many different possible explanations. I don’t knwo which one is most plausible. You don’t know which is more plausible: Scenario A: A man is punched hard enough to receive a bloody nose and a swollen lip. He then has his head pounded on the sidewalk hard enough to make it bleed. During all of this, he manages to hold onto a gun, and his attacker never sees it. Scenario B: A man gets his ass kicked, and when his attacker stops, he pulls out a concealed gun from a holster and shoots his attacker. If you really don’t know which of these is more plausible, I suggest sending away for a new plausibility meter, because yours is broken. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1946 "2012-03-26T21:50:28Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > you said, “It’s pretty clear at this point Martin decided to stop and confront Zimmerman.” > > I suspect that is the point in question. Ah. Then the point being when Zimmerman’s account has been reported in the media, confirmed by police, and corroborated by witnesses. That, and at least for me, a further understanding of the geography of the situation. There’s just no way the “Zimmerman chases Martin and starts a confrontation” part of the story holds up anymore. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1947 "2012-03-26T21:52:29Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Many articles like this [one](http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/46781618/ns/today-today_people/t/mom-trayvon-martin-was-killed-because-color-his-skin/) report that Martin was killed less than 70 feet from his dad’s fiancee’s house. Much ado was also made about how long Martin’s dad went clueless about his son’s demise despite being so close to the crime scene. > > If anyone feels like playing around with maps, it would be helpful to see how close his dad’s house is to the entrance of the backyard walkway. according to this [http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-gfx-trayvon-martin-sanford-shooting-20120313,0,5710580.graphic](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-gfx-trayvon-martin-sanford-shooting-20120313,0,5710580.graphic) the attorney is playing fast and loose with his measurements. W/ Google earth I think it may have been closer to 100 yards than 70 feet in a straight line. But the sentinel map may be inaccurate ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1948 "2012-03-26T21:53:03Z")
> [@treis](#): > > If you really don’t know which of these is more plausible, I suggest sending away for a new plausibility meter, because yours is broken. Very clever. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1949 "2012-03-26T21:55:09Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Ah. Then the point being when Zimmerman’s account has been reported in the media, confirmed by police, and corroborated by witnesses. That, and at least for me, a further understanding of the geography of the situation. There’s just no way the “Zimmerman chases Martin and starts a confrontation” part of the story holds up anymore. Only parts of Z’s story have corroboration–not the whole thing from beginning to end. Afaik, there’s still no reports of witnesses to the initial altercation other than Z and M. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1950 "2012-03-26T21:55:37Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Ah. Then the point being when Zimmerman’s account has been reported in the media, confirmed by police, and corroborated by witnesses. That, and at least for me, a further understanding of the geography of the situation. There’s just no way the “Zimmerman chases Martin and starts a confrontation” part of the story holds up anymore. I’m trying to make sense of what you’re saying and failing. So Zimmerman doesn’t chase Martin in your view. Okay. So how did Martin end being killed so close to his dad’s house? How did Zimmerman end up on the backyard walkway to begin with, if he didn’t follow or chase Martin over there? One minute he’s in his truck, on the main road. The next minute, he’s 100 feet from Martin’s house, shooting the kid in the chest behind some houses. Please explain this. ---
**Author:** ![OnePercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6f9a4e/32.png) [@OnePercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OnePercent)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1951 "2012-03-26T21:56:28Z")
The Miami Herald is reporting that Trayvon had been suspected of burglary in the past: [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html) " \*Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was suspended from school in October in an incident in which he was found in possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that a schools security staffer described as a “burglary tool,” The Miami Herald has learned. Trayvon, who claimed that an unnamed friend had given him the jewelry,\* … " \*Trayvon’s backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described the screwdriver as a burglary tool. Trayvon was asked if the jewelry, which was mostly women’s rings and earrings, belonged to his family or a girlfriend. “Martin replied it’s not mine. A friend gave it to me,” according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend. School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation. - " Wow, this really changes things, does it not? Read more here: [http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy](http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1952 "2012-03-26T22:00:50Z")
Check out [post 1937](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14904350&postcount=1937), Dan Rather. ---
**Author:** ![Hmmmm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Hmmmm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hmmmm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1953 "2012-03-26T22:04:01Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Two problems with this: > > Why would Martin hide in this “alcove” rather than continue along his way? It’s raining, it’s dark, he’s by himself, he’s unarmed and skinny, and there’s a basketball game on TV at home. What would be his motivation in playing hide and go seek with Zimmerman given these conditions? > > holds water. Because a stranger is following him and he doesn’t want him to know what house he’s going to go into? If someone was following me or remotely looked like they were, I wouldn’t lead them back to my place and if I could I might watch them to see if I was being paranoid before I went about my business. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1954 "2012-03-26T22:05:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When someone has been killed, I don’t think it’s outrageous for there to be some degree of examination of the full evidentiary record by a disinterested judge or magistrate even when the person is a granny or whatever. Someone’s dead. Going through some kind of reasonable process seems appropriate to me. It is going through a judicial process. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1955 "2012-03-26T22:10:53Z")
> [@newme](#): > > Here is a [map](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=trayvon+martin+map&start=212&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=cwx&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1024&bih=675&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsuo&tbnid=q9EuDZxzVzdPmM:&imgrefurl=http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-gfx-trayvon-martin-sanford-shooting-20120313,0,5710580.graphic&docid=VRqVUusJfH5WPM&imgurl=http://media.trb.com/media/graphic/2012-03/68790513.jpg&w=437&h=503&ei=rd9wT4voJ-jC2wWLx9DxAQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=427&sig=105694619992133937869&page=14&tbnh=149&tbnw=129&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:212&tx=60&ty=70) showing where Martin was shot, where the house he was visiting is, and Zimmerman’s house. Good one. If the map is correct, then Martin was killed a lot more than 70 yards from his father’s girlfriend’s home. It looks like more than 100 yards, maybe 120. It looks like we got the 7-Eleven right. If the location of Zimmerman’s house is right, then his father doesn’t own it. Based on the Seminole County Property Appraiser a lot of these of these town homes belong to people who don’t live in them. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1956 "2012-03-26T22:11:13Z")
Does anyone know where the bit about Zimmerman checking a street sign comes from? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1957 "2012-03-26T22:12:27Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > according to this > [http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-gfx-trayvon-martin-sanford-shooting-20120313,0,5710580.graphic](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-gfx-trayvon-martin-sanford-shooting-20120313,0,5710580.graphic) > > the attorney is playing fast and loose with his measurements. > > W/ Google earth I think it may have been closer to 100 yards than 70 feet in a straight line. > > But the sentinel map may be inaccurate Reading the description… if Martin was on top of Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him, how was Martin found facedown and the only blood (we know of) on Zimmerman was his face and back of the head? How do you shoot someone who is, according to this scenario, inches from you, and not get some of their blood on your front? Zimmerman’s on his back, Martin on top. Z grasps his gun, pulls it out, shoots Trayvon. Trayvon collapses in some way. If he collapses directly forward, there’s no way Zimmerman doesn’t have some blood on his front, AND, if Zimmerman has to push him off, it’s more likely he’s going to land on his side or his back, especially if he was straddling Zimmerman. Try it yourself: have someone straddle you and pretend to punch you, then fall dead on top of you, face down. How do you push them off so that they remain facedown? Especially if you have a big gut, creating some elevation for them to fall over from, vs. you being a skinny guy that slides out from under. And if you’re a skinny guy who slides out from under, your front is definitely smeared with Martin’s blood. If Trayvon fell to the side, it’s still very strange that he would remain face forward if he was straddling Zimmerman at the time of the shot: how does Zimmerman get out from under without Trayvon ending up on his side or back when his legs aremoved? Which brings me to another question we can’t answer right now: as part of the “investigation” that was done, did the CSI types come down and take pictures of Trayvon’s body before it was moved? What was the position of his legs? If he was face down, how were his legs positioned? Relatively straight, as you’d think, since facedown with legs bent is a tricky position to get into from a straddle on a fat man when you’re dead. Which leads to another question: how quickly after Zimmerman fired was Trayvon dead/unconscious? Did Zimmerman say, did witnesses? If he had a few seconds of consciousness remaining and it has already been described that he used it to contribute to his own death pose, ok. But that question needs to be answered. (And the reports of Zimmerman behind him pressing on his back aren’t very supportive of the self-defense story…if he managed to get away from Martin before shooting him, allowing him to assume a better position to shoot him from, then fuck self-defense.) Seems to me the answers to these questions can contribute enormously to determining the plausibility of Zimmerman’s version of events. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1958 "2012-03-26T22:23:05Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Does anyone know where the bit about Zimmerman checking a street sign comes from? I have a hunch that a reporter read the transcript of Zimmerman’s call to police where he says, “I don’t know the _address_.” Reporter then asks Chief Lee how come Zimmerman doesn’t know what _street_ he’s on, and that’s when Lee says he finds that implausible. Press runs with that. Nothing in Zimmerman’s call with police, or the [official press release](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=zimmerman_martin_shooting.pdf&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sanfordfl.gov%2Finvestigation%2Fdocs%2FZimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf&ei=eOtwT8bGKcXS2gWDp7XxAQ&usg=AFQjCNGyj149rNkfVf91KTHU1dHtnDy25g&cad=rja) mentions Zimmerman looking for a _street sign_. If it shows up in the transcript of Zimmerman’s Police Interrogation, I will admit I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1959 "2012-03-26T22:33:22Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > according to this > [http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-gfx-trayvon-martin-sanford-shooting-20120313,0,5710580.graphic](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-gfx-trayvon-martin-sanford-shooting-20120313,0,5710580.graphic) > > the attorney is playing fast and loose with his measurements. > > W/ Google earth I think it may have been closer to 100 yards than 70 feet in a straight line. > > But the sentinel map may be inaccurate I don’t recall any newsreport saving 70 feet, but some some said 70 **yards**. I can forgive them being off by 30 yards if they just eyeballed it, but 70 feet sounds like a typo. But as you say, the Sentinel map may not be to scale. ---
**Author:** ![Hmmmm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Hmmmm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hmmmm)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504/1960 "2012-03-26T22:33:30Z")
A friend of the self-appointed neighborhood watch leader who killed an unarmed black Florida teen says that reports that his pal uttered a racial slur before the slaying are simply wrong. After reviewing a 911 call George Zimmerman made before gunning down Trayvon Martin, many believe they hear the shooter calling the 17-year-old a “fucking coon.” But a friend of Zimmerman’s family told ABC on Sunday that people were jumping to the wrong conclusion. “I spoke with my teenage daughter yesterday, and the word in question, it’s the difference between a ‘C’ and a ‘G’ from what I understand,” longtime friend Joe Oliver explained. “And ‘goon’ is apparently a term of endearment in the high schools these days,” he added. “I don’t know of anyone younger than 40 who uses ‘coon’ as a racial epithet.” [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=644910&page=40](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=644910&page=40) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=97) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hasnt-the-neighborhood-watch-shooter-been-arrested/615504.md?page=99)