# Why hate Shyamalan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900 "2003-04-24T17:44:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![HoviBaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HoviBaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoviBaby)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/41 "2003-04-25T16:30:04Z")
I do have one thing to say about Unbreakable, and this little tidbit does give me some hope for Shyamalan’s future work. In the scene were Bruce Willis has finally come to terms with his abilities, and he goes to the house to stop the bad guy, his coat starts out as just a shin length rain slicker, and by the end of the scene, it is swirling around him in true superhero-cape fashion. Each cut makes the shawl longer and longer. I never reaqlized it until the 3rd or 4th viewing, but once it was there, it injected new life into the scene, for me, anyhow. Anyone here who is an artist of any type can attest to what I am about to say. I draw/sketch/paint, and there is an odd thing that happens in everyone of my drawings. I never REALLY like the piece as a whole; I am my own worst critic. But I can always see one particular line, or curve, or shadow, or fade that is just absolutely perfect in every way. As an artist (of sorts), I see things like this in other peoples art as well. That scene (or subliminal part of the scene) was Shyamalan’s crowning achievement, surprise endings be damned. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/42 "2003-04-25T16:40:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > \*\*Yeah, faith in a deity whose divine message is “swing away”. \*\* Which is better, and more rational than the messages most have passed off as coming from one God or another. ---
**Author:** ![Wintermute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@Wintermute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wintermute)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/43 "2003-04-25T18:43:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > \*\*Yeah, faith in a deity whose divine message is “swing away”. \*\* Sure, why not? This was a personal movie about one man’s struggle to regain faith in _his_ God. Not yours or anyone else’s. The whole movie could be seen as a dream, or an interior dialog; everything in it was a metaphor. At least, that’s the only way it makes sense to me, because y’all are right: the aliens were lame. 🙂 Re: Jacob’s Ladder. I have never seen it myself, but everyone I’ve talked to (including some non-idiots) found it totally confusing. General consensus was that it didn’t make sense. I am open to conflicting opinions, however. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/44 "2003-04-25T19:22:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Erik the Viking \* > **ftg, I’m curious as to whether you _knew_ there was a surprise ending going in. I enjoyed _The Sixth Sense_ immensely and was completely blind-sided by the ending in large part because I had no idea there was going to be a surprise; in fact I really didn’t know much about the movie at all.** That’s funny, because I, personally, didn’t know anything about the _Sixth Sense_ before watching in; however, 5 minutes in, I knew there was going to be SOME sort of catch. What gave it away was when it flashed from where he got shot to the caption “6 months in the future”. Okay…no explanation for the intervening time? however, I didnt know _what_ exactly the catch would be, and I didnt let trying to figure it out get in the way of enjoying the movie. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/45 "2003-04-25T19:24:22Z")
_Jacob’s Ladder_ was darker, more disorienting, and spoiled by a postscript “message” that was more idiotic than everything in _Signs_ put together. And Ambrose Bierce still came first. Dorkusmalorkusmafia first said: > [@](#): > > The Sixth Sense was quite a wonderful movie. It had an interesting development and wasn’t as predictable as most of the tripe out there. Overall an A+. ; then said: > [@](#): > > The Sixth Sense’s ending was very predictable. From the moment Willis was shot, I knew he would be dead the entire movie…The Sixth Sense ripped off the premise that the protagonist was dead for the entire movie…The movie was still good but I saw it coming. Jacob’s Ladder was a superior film and much darker. 😕 And the McGuffin in _NxNW_ is the microfilm in the statue, not the secret identity. FTR, I also think _Unbreakable_ is MNS’s best, for many of the reasons MrMyth said. I think the pacing’s right (slow, but vital) and Willis is much better than in _6S_. The implications of the “twist” revelation also resonate much more than the other two, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/46 "2003-04-25T20:01:39Z")
Put me down as a hater of Shamalamadingdong. He’s a good cinematographer, but that’s all I’ll give him. His plots are ridiculous, his messages pretentious in the extreme and he gets credit for “innovation” when he is really just one-offing very trite and cliched formulas in every movie. It’s a ghost story, _with a twist_. It’s a superhero story _with a twist_. It’s a knotted intestine _with a twist_. His work bores me to tears, and not because there aren’t shootouts and rapid splices. He plods through his plots. I know some of his choir of worshippers have called this his incredible appreciation of character development, but I have to disagree. The characters don’t particularly develop, they simply endure, which I what I feel like I’m doing when I sit through one of his movies. I won’t be doing that again, however. Basically, the man is a flavor of the month and I don’t think his work will stand the test of time once the hype is gone. ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/47 "2003-04-25T20:09:58Z")
ArchiveGuy, I still think the Sixth Sense was a good movie even though I found it to be predictable. I found Jacob’s Ladder (I must have been a young teenager, I haven’t seen it since) to be a better movie because at the time of my viewing, I hadn’t ever seen anything like it and the hole protagonist is really dead thing sure seemed like it was taken directly from there. However, that is neither here nor there, the point remains that I still don’t think Shyamalan is really very versitile overall even though his directing style is enjoyable despite the subject matter. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/48 "2003-04-25T20:47:58Z")
**Gangster Octopus** and **The Gaspode** are, in my opinion, correct. All of you who are complaining about various aspects of Shyamalan’s movies are complaining mostly about the _writing._ Virtually nothing has been said about his _direction._ For this reason, I consider Shyamalan simultaneously overrated and underrated. He’s overrated for the stories he tells; _Signs_ in particular, as has been said here by many, is utterly ridiculous on the level of plot, not to mention the utter predictability of the crisis of faith that supposedly makes up the primary theme of the film. The reason for this, I think, is that the more successful Shyamalan gets, the more insulated he is from criticism by studio types who try to point out flaws and make changes. Usually they’re wrong, but _sometimes they’re right._ Either way, Shyamalan doesn’t have to listen to them any more; he’ll succeed or fail on his own merits. That makes him a true auteur, but it also makes his movies more difficult to watch. But he’s vastly _underrated_ as a director. Look at how he constructs and edits his material. He is absolutely masterful at doing a lot with very little. There’s a moment toward the end of _Signs_ where the aliens are apparently approaching the house for the final attack; Shyamalan communicates this with a subtle camera movement, a creak of the decking outside, and a jingle of wind chimes. That’s all. Compare that restraint to the overwhelming sound and fury on display in, say, Jan de Bont’s _The Haunting_, and you’ll see what I mean. The filmmaking skills on display in his movies, from the perspective of pure craft, are quite prodigious. What Shyamalan needs, in my opinion, is either to work from somebody else’s script for a movie or two, or a more hard-nosed producer who will tell him when his own writing is substandard. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Skip_ > **I reject the idea of the alien invasion being a McGuffin. The invasion was not ‘incidental’, it was brought up again and again and again and played a major part driving the story along.** You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/49 "2003-04-26T00:13:43Z")
Two things: (1) I was absolutely shocked by the ending of _The Sixth Sense_. It completely and totally blindsided me. And, judging by the reaction of the crowd in the theatre, and the friends with whom I discussed it, so were many many other people. So ixnay on the ondescensioncay there, **ftg**. (2) I enjoyed **signs** quite a bit, and I interpreted the utter absurdity of the aliens, their water allergy, their wandering around in cornfields, etc., as a deliberate choice. What would happen if you took aliens who actually behaved like the stupidest, most cliched aliens from bad science fiction movies and tv shows of the past, and made a really well-made movie about them invading? Well, you’d get a darn controversial movie. But I’m certain that if you went up to M. Night and said “hey, bucko, did it ever occur to you how little sense it makes that the aliens would be allergic to water?” he would agree. But I don’t think that’s the point. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/50 "2003-04-26T00:24:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > \*\*Yeah, faith in a deity whose divine message is “swing away”. \*\* Hey, the right Gospel for the right time. ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/51 "2003-04-26T00:43:07Z")
Jesus, a guy makes a film you don’t like, and _hate_ is immediately bestowed upon him? There are worse directors and worse films out there. I assume they are hated too. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/52 "2003-04-26T01:02:48Z")
Also, > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Short Guy_ > I fail to see how the mistaken identity in North by Northwest could be seen as something that can be dismissed once the film starts rolling. Just like the invasion in Signs, it’s the basis that triggers every event in the movie, and it keeps on playing a major role. It’s a McGuffin in the sense that it’s the thing around which the events in the film revolve, but you don’t just ‘forget’ that it’s there. A McGuffin isn’t necessarily something that is shown early in the movie and never mentioned again. It could be in every frame of the film. What makes it a McGuffin is that the nature of the object, what it is, what it represents, what it does, makes no difference. The roll of microfilm in\* North by Northwest\* could be bomb plans. It could be the location of hidden Nazi gold. It could be the recipe to a really good egg salad. Similarly, in _Signs_, the aliens didn’t have to be aliens. Them being aliens was not important to the plot, because the plot isn’t about the invasion, it’s about the family. Obviously, it’s not as easy a change as a roll of microfilm: for _Signs_ to not have aliens in the movie would require substantial, but ultimatly superficial, changes in the action of the movie, but the core story would be basically untouched. If he has set this movie in France during WWII and made all the aliens into German soldiers, he’d probably have got an Oscar for this movie. Although he’d probably have to change the ending, unless he wanted to argue that Nazis melted when wet. ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/53 "2003-04-26T01:55:08Z")
No, Nazis only melt when exposed to the Ark of the Covenant. (sorry, couldn’t resist) ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/54 "2003-04-26T02:19:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vandal \* > \*\*Jesus, a guy makes a film you don’t like, and _hate_ is immediately bestowed upon him? There are worse directors and worse films out there. I assume they are hated too. \*\* Yes and yes. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/55 "2003-04-26T06:30:06Z")
I think MNS is a great director. I found _6th Sense_ and _Signs_ to be two entertaining and thought-provoking films not unworthy of applause. _Unbreakable_ had it’s okay moments, but it’s the weakest of the three, IMO. As others have mentioned, he doesn’t really do well with storytelling. One thing about that movie that bugged the hell out of me was the scene where Bruce Willis asked his wife what her favorite song is and she said “Soft and Wet” by Prince. I don’t understand why MNS singled out that song from the rest of Prince’s kickass repetoire to make as someone’s favorite. It’s really a nonremarkable song, and pales in comparision to classics such as Purple Rain, Kiss, Pink Cashmire, etc. Both me and my sister found that particular selection very unrealistic, truly. In fact, that challenged my suspension of disbelief more than the plot did. However, in spite of all his weakness and shortcomings, I think M. Night makes a _far_ better writer than he does actor. Although it’s cool to see an Indian face on the silver screen and all, someone should tell him to quit pulling a Spike Lee and just stay behind the camera. Veterinarian my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/56 "2003-04-26T06:58:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by you with the face \* > **One thing about that movie that bugged the hell out of me was the scene where Bruce Willis asked his wife what her favorite song is and she said “Soft and Wet” by Prince. I don’t understand why MNS singled out that song from the rest of Prince’s kickass repetoire to make as someone’s favorite. It’s really a nonremarkable song, and pales in comparision to classics such as Purple Rain, Kiss, Pink Cashmire, etc. Both me and my sister found that particular selection very unrealistic, truly. In fact, that challenged my suspension of disbelief more than the plot did.** Just at a guess [spoiler]I think that choosing that song had two purposes and its individual quality wasn’t an issue. The first was humor, because here’s this serious, somewhat dour woman, whose favorite song sounds a lot like a euphemism for a lady’s delicate area (and most likely is. I haven’t heard the song but I’m familiar with Prince). The second purpose was that it illustrated how far the couple had grown apart to the point where they didn’t even know each other anymore, a pretty valid and important plot point.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/57 "2003-04-26T07:58:47Z")
M. Night Shamalamadingdong isn’t worth hating. Or paying attention to. Or resuscitating. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/58 "2003-04-26T14:53:18Z")
Those are valid hypothesises, **Asylum**. While being aware that this is quite a petty hang-up, I still think he could have chosen a better song. If there was humor to be conveyed by making her like “Soft and Wet”, it wasn’t transmitted well. But I guess that’s because I’m familiar with the song and know it to be nothing to write home about. Feh. ---
**Author:** ![moi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@moi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/59 "2003-04-26T17:48:14Z")
Don’t hate him, but have been disappointed by him. Though _The Sixth Sense_ was a good film and enjoyed _Unbreakable_, though I could use another viewing of it to decide which film I prefer. _Signs_, on the other hand, was utter tripe. There were scenes where I loved the film’s cinematography and enjoyed its pacing…but, overall, I couldn’t bear the plot holes and found the ending to be melodramatic and shot with incredibly poor pacing. I’m among those who didn’t see the twist in _The Sixth Sense_ coming. However, in _Signs_ I felt that MNS was hitting us over the head with the significance of the baseball bat from **the very first mention**. As such, the pacing of the scene with the final alien confrontation seemed incredibly slow to me, as if MNS was waiting for his audience to catch up to him. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900/60 "2003-04-26T18:16:46Z")
Archiveguy, what films were on MNS’s (I’d rather not try to spell his name) list? You’ve given me a time period, but nothing else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-shyamalan/170900.md?page=4)