# Why hate the French? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672 "2003-07-01T22:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/21 "2003-07-02T03:29:02Z")
That whole French 9/11 conspiracy book didn’t go over very well either. [CNN link](http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/06/26/france.book/). ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/22 "2003-07-02T07:05:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alien \* > \*\*…WWII keeps popping up, many Americans holds some major misconceptions about what happened back then. \*\* By all accounts, over 290,000 American servicemen and women died during WW2. [CITE](http://gi.grolier.com/wwii/wwii_16.html#DATA) Its pretty tough to grasp the idea that so many would die for the liberation of others. I’m not sure what misconceptions you feel are being made. Not sure how this relates to the OP, but it needed to be said. ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/23 "2003-07-02T08:10:40Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > \*\* Especially since the French themselves notoriously despise foreigners in general and Americans in particular._\* Cite? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/24 "2003-07-02T08:18:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JXJohns \* > \*\* I’m not sure what misconceptions you feel are being made. > \*\* “If it wasn’t for us you’d all be speaking German”. If I had a penny for every time I have heard/read that from an American … ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/25 "2003-07-02T09:57:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wolfian \* > **There is also the matter of Charles De Gaulle leading France to nukes (the first non-superpower to get them)…** [nitpick] The British got nukes before the French did. [/nitpick] Here’s the order of nuke acquisition of countries **known** to have them (year of first test in brackets), from [this site](http://www.nti.org/f_wmd411/f1a4_1.html): US (1945) USSR (1949) Great Britain (1952) France (1960) China (1964) India (1974) Pakistan (1998) ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/26 "2003-07-02T11:14:57Z")
It’s worth pointing out that the British also traditionally hate the French (particularly the English hate them; the Scots have more cultural links going back hundreds of years to when France was an ally of the Scots against England. The Scots also traditionally hate the English.) Strong cultural links between Britain and the USA seem to foster the common hatred of the French. However, large sectors of the British media and British population seem to also hate Germans, Italians, Americans, Greeks, Spanish, Russians, blacks, Arabs, South Asians, East Asians, Latin Americans, etc. British newspapers such as the Sun (owned by Rupert Murdoch) were incredibly rude and racist about the French, but also exhibit a general anti-European sentiment (due in part to the political feelings of its owner), a strongly anti-Moslem sentiment, and campaign vociferously against immigration (particularly of non-whites, Arabs and East-Europeans). I think hatred of the French in both Britain and the USA are a manifestation of a more general dislike of foreigners and alien cultures felt by many people in both countries. Americans seem to express hatred towards Moslems and Arabs (especially after 9/11), Canadians (more jokily), immigrants from Latin America, numerous European countries, etc. Both Britain and the US are culturally isolationist: foreign language teaching is far inferior to the west of the world, people are less likely to travel overseas except to holiday resorts where they are carefully sheltered from local culture, etc. The US has the excuse of geographical isolation; Britain doesn’t even have that. Unlike saying you hate many races and nationalities, saying you hate the French is socially acceptable, especially at a time when the French government is placing its (economic and political) imperial designs in direct opposition to the imperial designs of the USA and Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/27 "2003-07-02T12:36:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lumpy \* > \*\*But what brought it to a head during the GW2 controversy was the US perception that France was simply being obstructionist- using it’s position on the Security Council to block action \*\* just to prove how important their say-so is \*\*. Whether this is a fair assesment or not, it is widely believed. \*\* SDMB is the place of truth over ignorance. This shows how well the administration manged to sell their case. Historically, French has rarely been a obstructionistic, that is, no cases comes to mind but other dopers might help out. Some would say US and China was obstructionists, the former blocking Israel-resolutions, the latter blocking Taiwan-resolutions. Whether French was a obstructionist regarding Iraq is still debated, but I think we should remember that 10 out of 15 UNSC members opposed the resolution, it wasn’t just France. ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/28 "2003-07-02T12:47:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stemba \* > \*\*You know, as a history major and former serviceman, I should know better than to open my mouth, but then again, it’s the French here. > > I’m not going to degrade the French as far as their society is concerned. It’s a perfectly lovely society, albiet a bit standoffish, but so too are the citizens of the USA. What really gets me (and perhaps the rest of middle-Americans) fired up are bull-headed stunts and antics of a select few. > > I read on the AP (I forget the article) about a group of French students who vandalized a cemetary full of US soldiers who were killed in both the first and second World Wars. The spraypainted slogans were along the lines of “Take your trash away, you’re polluting our soil.” Now, mind you, that’s not an exact quote, but to my knowledge that’s about as fucked up (pardon my language) as any group can get. Again, its only a select few and should not be taken as a slight against the whole of France. But that is pretty fucked up that those children, who have never faced invasion by an outside military, would deface the gravemarkers of those who helped protect and liberate their homeland. The South Koreans, who are right now trying to REMOVE US forces from their country, are at least reverant of those Americans who died protecting the Republic of Korea from the communists.\*\* If you say you are a history major in a post, then your post should be about history, not about something else. Don’t try to hedge your credibility. I seem to remember a american conservative doper saying just a few days ago on this board that somehow the graffiti letters felt just a bit to neatly printed. Never saw it myself. But if your account is true, I would hardly put a label on a country based on the actions of few radical (or drunk) students. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/29 "2003-07-02T12:51:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wolfian \* > \*\*There is also the matter of Charles De Gaulle leading France to nukes (the first non-superpower to get them) \*\* Nope. The first non-superpower to get them would be the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/57b2e6/32.png) [@Alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alien)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/30 "2003-07-02T13:08:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JXJohns \* > \*\*By all accounts, over 290,000 American servicemen and women died during WW2. [CITE](http://gi.grolier.com/wwii/wwii_16.html#DATA) > > Its pretty tough to grasp the idea that so many would die for the liberation of others. I’m not sure what misconceptions you feel are being made. > > Not sure how this relates to the OP, but it needed to be said. \*\* Since you were quoting me, I will just say that you should make a list about common beliefs abiout WWII and France, and then go off and check how many of them holds up. I’m pretty sure you will find many misconceptions. BTW, are you claiming that 292.000 Americans died liberating France? Your cite seems to indicate that this is the total US casualties during WWII. As you know, or should know, America didn’t do most of it’s fighting in Europe, almost none actually up until 1943. If I’m not mistaken, after 1943 US forces participated in the invasion in Italy and handled two of the five landing sectors on D-Day, this in addition to the final push in the final year of the war, alongside British, Canadian, and Free French Forces. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/31 "2003-07-02T13:09:23Z")
Maybe its because the French are a (slightly) different culture _and_ Americans know a bit about that culture. The average American knows shit about the Iraqi people and the war was against Saddam, not really the people. So they couldn’t vent their whipped up anger on anybody. There’s not much to actually _do_ to quench the bloodlust. Now the French, there’s someone you can _truly_ vent your anger on. They’re a known entity, so many little quirks you can pick on. So many stones to pick up, does it really matter they’re not thrown at the right target? Here’s _something_ you can do to show you’re a patriot, to be a part of it, to wave the flag. Beat up your local jew err… sorry… pour wine down the gutter. It’s easy to find a stick if you want to hit a dog. Apparently it’s also easy to find a dog when you have a stick. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/32 "2003-07-02T13:35:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lumpy \* > \*\* In recent years France has resorted to ever more Francocentric policies, such as shoring up the French film industry by flat quotas on Hollywood produced films, and limiting American food companies like McDonalds from competing with French cuisine. \*\* Hmmm…May I have some more infos about these two policies…I don’t know…references to these french laws, for instance… As for the second one, you should try to explain that to french restaurant owners. They’re currently lobbying for a change in the tax laws, because they’re more advantageous for Mc-Donald’s-style restaurants (take away food benefits from a lower VAT). They would most certainly be interested by your statement. You most probably know better, I don’t doubt it… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/33 "2003-07-02T14:00:20Z")
**amanset:** > [@](#): > > “If it wasn’t for us you’d all be speaking German”. > > If I had a penny for every time I have heard/read that from an American … “Those uncultured, arrogant, war-loving louts…” If I had a penny for every time I heard that from a Frenchman (or European)… What chaps me is that every time this issue comes up, it seems to be painted by our European friends as “Ugly American” vs. “Civilized Frenchman (or European).” What also chaps me is that Americans paint Europeans as effete, pseudo-sophisticates. Yes, America has its fair share of assholes. So does France (and Europe). We all need to stop this slander, post-haste. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/34 "2003-07-02T14:06:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GoHeels \* > \*\ ***amanset:** > > “Those uncultured, arrogant, war-loving louts…” > > If I had a penny for every time I heard that from a Frenchman (or European)… > > What chaps me is that every time this issue comes up, it seems to be painted by our European friends as “Ugly American” vs. “Civilized Frenchman (or European).” What also chaps me is that Americans paint Europeans as effete, pseudo-sophisticates. > > Yes, America has its fair share of assholes. > > So does France (and Europe). > > We all need to stop this slander, post-haste. \*\* Still, you haven’t done much there to debunk what I wrote. JXJohns asked about the misconceptions often made by Americans (note: not all Americans) about World War 2. I then provided one and rather than comment on it you went on about something completely unrelated. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/35 "2003-07-02T14:23:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Why hate the French? Because the US & UK governments misrepresented the French position, loudly and publicly in the world media, so everyone could hear. They made it sound like the French would use their veto _no matter what_ the resolution proposed immediately before the invasion said. This was not the case, and it was this point which Clare Short highlighted above others as the principal reason for her resignation. So, to answer the question: _Because your government tells you to._ ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/36 "2003-07-02T14:28:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Latro \* > \*\*Maybe its because the French are a (slightly) different culture _and_ Americans know a bit about that culture. \*\* Agreed. I also think it’s got a lot to do with the fact that Paris is a popular destination for Americans traveling abroad for the first time. Probably _the_ most popular destination if you don’t count resort areas and other English-speaking countries. For a lot of Americans, it’s their first encounter with a truly foreign culture – and while that can be a great experience, it also requires a level of adjustment that many first-time travelers, especially older ones, have a hard time making. Throw in the fact that Paris is a big city with the usual big-city attitude, and it’s not surprising that you get a lot of vacationers coming home with a bad impression of the French. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/37 "2003-07-02T15:24:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Latro \* > Here’s _something_ you can do to show you’re a patriot, to be a part of it, to wave the flag. Beat up your local jew err… sorry… pour wine down the gutter. > > It’s easy to find a stick if you want to hit a dog. > Apparently it’s also easy to find a dog when you have a stick. Naah. Beating up Jews is a French thing. I like the beating a dog analogy. _Don’t ever use it again._ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/38 "2003-07-02T15:40:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alien \* > \*\*Don’t know why Americans hate the French, but it has been going on for a long time. WWII keeps popping up, many Americans holds some major misconceptions about what happened back then. \*\* Enlighten me, please… ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/39 "2003-07-02T16:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > **Their “ministry of language purity” or whatever it’s called** Um, that’s an Academy, not a “ministry of language purity”. Lots of countries have academies to oversee language change. Even non-states like the Esperanto movement have an Academy. Why aren’t we making fun of the Spaniards, they have exactly the same kind of linguistic institution as the French? UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672/40 "2003-07-02T16:16:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amanset \* > \*\*“If it wasn’t for us you’d all be speaking German”. > > If I had a penny for every time I have heard/read that from an American … \*\* You didn’t hear it from me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hate-the-french/185672.md?page=3)