# Why have conservatives left this message board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 14, 2025, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016 "2025-04-14T01:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/261 "2025-04-21T01:42:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > …modern America is about the worship of hatred, cruelty and greed. And the desire to kill and destroy for the sake of killing and destroying. And barbecue. Never forget barbecue. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/262 "2025-04-21T02:02:15Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I refuse to have a debate in which I am heavily outnumbered over whether the other debates in which I have been heavily outnumbered indicate that the average viewpoint on the board is skewed to the left. Thing is, most Republicans did not see transsexual rights as so important in the last election, about 9th place for it being a reason to vote for Trump among republicans. The main reason for Trump winning was the economy and immigration, and on those subjects, Trump is losing support now. Point being that, expect even more people that will be called “the left” by people like you in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/263 "2025-04-21T02:13:06Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I also find it extremely hard to believe anyone could genuinely question this, and I have no idea what you expect me to show you or what kind of evidence, if any, would satisfy you. A thread with a broad array of posters who are expressing substantially far left-of-center (not just disagreeing with you or “left-of-you”) viewpoints but embracing and promoting ideals that are objectively and distinctly on the left side of the political spectrum. If, as you say, “The board, however, is solidly on the left in all these issues,”,if should ge trivially easy for you to find a few examples with minimal effort. > [@DemonTree](#): > > And now I have wasted time on someone who is just being a low-effort dick Your lame insults are even more ineffectual than your attempts at misdirection. Show your work. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/264 "2025-04-21T02:14:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The main reason for Trump winning was the economy and immigration, and on those subjects, Trump is losing support now. Yup. “Wokeness” and trans issues in general are an excuse bigots use to support their views. Literally every poster I’ve seen push that info is someone who also shows other signs of bigotry. For anyone who thinks that Democrats lost the last election because of too much of a focus on human rights, and don’t think you’re a bigot, you have some soul-searching to do. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/265 "2025-04-21T03:36:10Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Could you give an example of an “extreme pro-trans” law and explain what’s extreme about it? Remember who you’re talking to. For transphobes, the default position is “shove those people in a box so no one who doesn’t want to acknowledge or interact with them doesn’t have to.” And any divergence from that — _especially_ a cultural framework that says trans people are normal, are not mentally ill, have rights to exist and live according to their self-perceived identity, and should be supported institutionally in all that — is _ipso facto_ extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/266 "2025-04-21T04:14:48Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You’re American. Do _you_ worship hatred, cruelty and greed? Do you have a desire to kill and destroy for the sake of killing and destroying? No, but I’ve known since I was a kid that most Americans hate me on principle. And America has become worse over time. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/267 "2025-04-21T04:50:12Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I refuse to have a debate in which I am heavily outnumbered over whether the other debates in which I have been heavily outnumbered indicate that the average viewpoint on the board is skewed to the left. Complaints about being outnumbered don’t justify a refusal to substantiate your claims. Assert, assert, assert works on TV: it doesn’t work here. Requests for citation are not merely a debate tactic. If you can’t cite your claims, _we can’t evaluate the extent to which your position is partially true._ More than once, I’ve formed a contention that had to be modified when tested against the facts. At the bare minimum modifying your position is part and parcel of fighting your own ignorance. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, but I’ve known since I was a kid that most Americans hate me on principle. And America has become worse over time. As a SWM, I’ve perceived far far more malign indifference than outright hatred in the US. But then again, I would. I’ve acknowledged the blind spot that most people including myself have for political malice. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/268 "2025-04-21T05:21:53Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > As a SWM, I’ve perceived far far more malign indifference than outright hatred in the US. But then again, I would. I’ve acknowledged the blind spot that most people including myself have for political malice. Oh yeah. Atheism. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/269 "2025-04-21T05:28:01Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > As a SWM, I’ve perceived far far more malign indifference than outright hatred in the US. I’m an atheist. That alone is enough to ensure that the _great majority_ of Americans hate and loath me. I’ve always known that I could walk out my door, look around and be _sure_ that nearly everyone I see hated me. They mostly don’t know I exist, but hate me all the same. Which isn’t even all that unusual, American culture is _built_ around hatred. Who we hate is largely what defines us. I’m just lucky enough that it’s not something visible like dark skin. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/270 "2025-04-21T06:53:48Z")
John Mace, a life-long atheist, didn’t perceive things that way. This agnostic finds the claim unexceptional though. (Which demonstrates my blind-spot point: I had at first forgotten about atheism.) > **Summary** > > John Mace and I had a long discussion in FQ about whether an alleged quote by Bush the Elder about atheists was accurate. > > One online discussion: > [George H.W. Bush and the Atheists - SourceWatch](https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/George_H.W._Bush_and_the_Atheists) > > Mace essentially thought the reporter was lying or misremembering IIRC. I didn’t find the alleged quote extraordinary: “No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.” > > And here’s the 2005 thread. Twenty years old! > [George H W Bush and atheists - #41 by Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/george-h-w-bush-and-atheists/323233/41) ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/271 "2025-04-21T09:26:53Z")
That’ll teach me to post late at night. Let’s try this again: > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Show your work. No. This isn’t Great Debates and I don’t care enough to bother. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/272 "2025-04-21T09:59:37Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > No. This isn’t Great Debates and I don’t care enough to bother. Given your track record (and the subsequent mod actions) of providing cites in GD it’s certainly better for you that you don’t provide any in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/273 "2025-04-21T10:32:08Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Trump voters said fighting illegal immigration and fixing the economy were the top reasons to support him > > What it is interesting is that looking at the transgender issue, **the exit polling showed that 39% supported Harris, 34% declared that the issue was not a factor in their vote** , and 27% supported Trump on that subject. > > Maybe @DemonTree will verify things she wouldn’t otherwise bother to. 🙂 Firstly, illegal immigration is in many ways a social justice issue - many on the left see it as a moral obligation to accept asylum seekers and offer a better life to those in need, and are very reluctant to pass policies that might stop them from coming. They also react with horror to the idea of deporting illegal immigrants, at least if they have lived in the US for a few years already. Secondly, other than immigration, I don’t think any one issue made much difference, but the idea that Dems support ‘others’ over ‘people like me’ was very damaging: > [@](#): > > Nearly two months into the second Donald Trump administration, a majority of voters in battleground House districts still believe Democrats in Congress are “more focused on helping other people than people like me,” according to an internal poll conducted by the Democratic group Navigator Research. Among independents, just 27 percent believe Democrats are focused on helping them, compared with 55 percent who said they’re focused on others. [https://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/11/poll-democrats-jobs-economy-00222988](https://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/11/poll-democrats-jobs-economy-00222988) I believe a lot of voters see the social justice left, and by extension the Dems, as favouring the interests of minorities - ethnic and racial, as well as gay and trans people - over the majority. And far worse, prioritising the welfare of illegal immigrants, criminals, homeless people, and drug addicts over that of law-abiding American citizens who work and contribute to society. I expect two kinds of answers to this: a) ‘that’s not happening’ and b) ‘helping vulnerable groups is the right thing to do, and anyone who objects is a bad person who we need to educate rather than pander to’. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/274 "2025-04-21T10:36:52Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > many on the left see it as a moral obligation to accept asylum seekers Which maybe, just maybe, is because the US is a signer of the 1951 Refugee Convention which makes it FUCKING US LAW. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/275 "2025-04-21T11:04:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m an atheist. That alone is enough to ensure that the _great majority_ of Americans hate and loath me. I’ve always known that I could walk out my door, look around and be _sure_ that nearly everyone I see hated me. They mostly don’t know I exist, but hate me all the same. Atheism? Are you serious? I’ve been an atheist since my teens, and haven’t met one person who cared at all. I haven’t kept it a secret, it’s just… normal. There’s far more stigma against being a religious person in UK politics. Also, I’m pretty sure my father-in-law is an atheist, and that didn’t stop him immigrating to America, marrying an American, and becoming a citizen. He doesn’t seem to feel the vast majority of Americans hate and loathe him. 🤷‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/276 "2025-04-21T11:48:15Z")
I believe you could look up polls that show many Americans would trust a gay Hispanic Jewish immigrant socialist transwoman candidate before they’d trust an atheist one. And the recerence was to Americans (But many Americans voted for Trump so who knows what’s in their brains.) So there’s a base of fact in that. OTOH DemonTree, ma’am, you do understand this is Der\_Trihs, as in, “conservatives will exterminate us all for pleasure” you are arguing with. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/277 "2025-04-21T12:02:25Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I believe a lot of voters see the social justice left, and by extension the Dems, as favouring the interests of minorities - ethnic and racial, as well as gay and trans people - over the majority. And far worse, prioritising the welfare of illegal immigrants, criminals, homeless people, and drug addicts over that of law-abiding American citizens who work and contribute to society. > > I expect two kinds of answers to this: a) ‘that’s not happening’ and b) ‘helping vulnerable groups is the right thing to do, and anyone who objects is a bad person who we need to educate rather than pander to’. They happen to be the truth, despite your well poisoning. The Democrats _don’t_ do those things, and some of them they _should._ Also, women, minorities, non-Christians and the other people the Right hates _are the majority._ Right wing white male Christians are a _minority._ ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/278 "2025-04-21T12:18:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Also, women, minorities, non-Christians and the other people the Right hates _are the majority._ Right wing white male Christians are a _minority._ Hey, don’t get started on how non-White non-Christians ruin countries or DemonTree will be forced to make veiled bigoted claims again. I’d provide a link to DemonTree’s bigotry but this is the Pit not GD so I don’t have to! ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/279 "2025-04-21T12:23:31Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Atheism? Are you serious? > > I’ve been an atheist since my teens, and haven’t met one person who cared at all. I haven’t kept it a secret, it’s just… normal. First of all, I’ll distance myself from the hyperbole. Atheism isn’t a serious badge of shame in most major urban areas of the United States, i.e. the most populous parts of the country. But religiosity is profoundly different in the US vs. the UK or even the vast majority of Europe. You can read up on the cultural impact of the [Great Awakening](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Awakening) on American society, but just in general the United States is vastly more devout. In 2018 55% of polled Americans prayed daily. That’s a lot closer to a country like Bangladesh (57%) than the UK (6%). There are many (MANY) parts of the country where a normal part of the conversation when meeting someone new is “which church do you attend?”. In such areas admitting to atheism will (usually quietly) provoke a negative response and potentially trigger a social backlash. I’ve never had a problem being an atheist. But I live in urban California. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/280 "2025-04-21T12:26:12Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I expect two kinds of answers to this: a) ‘that’s not happening’ and b) ‘helping vulnerable groups is the right thing to do, and anyone who objects is a bad person who we need to educate rather than pander to’. Nope, just looking at a typical conservative that has a blind spot with timelines. (From the older poll you cited made before the Trump tariff and bond meltdown) > The poll, conducted by Impact Research, surveyed 1,500 voters from Feb. 21 to Feb. 25.The poll, conducted by Impact Research, surveyed 1,500 voters from Feb. 21 to Feb. 25. The polls I was referring to are more recent than that, the economy BTW has a lot of social justice on it. And regarding the economy now Trump and the Republicans are underwater. One strong piece of evidence for how quick things changed was the very recent election in the battleground state of Wisconsin, where the judge supported by the Democrats won, despite huge and bigger support from Elon Musk, Trump and henchmen. > **[Wisconsin judicial election: Liberal Susan Crawford wins court seat in...](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp8km3zg3kyo)** > > Elon Musk was a prominent fundraiser in the campaign, and was the subject of attack ads aired by Crawford's supporters. > With the majority of ballots tallied, Crawford had won about 54% of the vote, and Schimel had around 45%, according to the BBC’s US partner CBS News. > > Addressing the fundraising by Musk, Crawford told supporters in her victory speech: “Wisconsin stood up and said loudly that justice does not have a price. Our courts are not for sale.” > > **The Dane county judge was formerly a private lawyer for Planned Parenthood and she backed abortion rights during her campaign.** > > **After giving his personal backing to Schimel, Tuesday’s result was a setback for Trump in a crucial swing state that he won by less than a percentage point during last November’s presidential election.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016.md?page=15)