# Why have conservatives left this message board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 14, 2025, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016 "2025-04-14T01:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/321 "2025-04-22T13:36:47Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > When working class people formed unions, it wasn’t to help ‘the poor’; it was to help themselves. They were also poor. When unions happened, it was to get better pay and better working conditions. > **[A Brief History of Unions](https://www.unionplus.org/page/brief-history-unions)** > > Union Plus benefits offered by the AFL-CIO's Union Privilege provides consumer savings, discounts, benefits, and education resources to active and retired labor union members. > In the history of America’s trade and labor unions, the most famous union remains the American Federation of Labor (AFL), founded in 1886 by Samuel Gompers. At its pinnacle, the AFL had approximately 1.4 million members. The AFL is credited with successfully negotiating wage increases for its members and enhancing workplace safety for all workers. > **[Labor Wars in the U.S. | American Experience | PBS](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/theminewars-labor-wars-us/)** > > As the pace of industrialization quickened, and profits accumulated in the hands of a few, some workers began to organize and advocate for unionization. The workers wanted more safety regulations, better wages, fewer hours, and freedom of speech and... BTW, your asinine words about: “I believe a lot of voters see the social justice left, and by extension the Dems, as favouring the interests of minorities - ethnic and racial, as well as gay and trans people - over the majority. And far worse, prioritising the welfare of illegal immigrants, criminals, homeless people, and drug addicts over that of law-abiding American citizens who work and contribute to society.” Do look really shortsighted as the union example shows, when unions came, other industries with no unions had to become better with their workers to keep them (and prevent the growth of unions) likewise, helping the needy leads to better conditions for all, not just the “people putting their own interests first”. > **[What public swimming pools teach us about racism’s costs](https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/health-equity/what-public-swimming-pools-teach-us-about-racism-s-costs)** > > They were once landmarks in American cities. Their disappearance shows us how racism can drive policy—even in health care. You are in reality defending the things that got us here, the denial of justice for minorities, women and others was here first, not what in reality does and will benefit all. Penny-wise but pound foolish. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/322 "2025-04-22T13:59:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > outside of whatever isolated incident you are recalling. I was talking about PEPFAR, a major foreign assistance program delivering Aids prevention and treatment in Africa that was one of the victims of Trump’s slashing of US foreign aid. Thanks to a major outcry, it got a limited allowance to continue - so far. Various people I follow on social media have been emphasising the fact it was started by Bush, presumably in the hope today’s Republicans would be more likely to support it. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Correlation/causation uncertainty. It’s not shown that the influence of religious belief is actually what caused many mainstream conservatives back in the day to show some decency about helping the poor and suffering. It may well be that it was the other way around: their basic impulses of decency were what led them to self-identify with religious belief that advocated helping the poor and suffering. Possible. What do you think could have caused these ‘basic impulses of decency’ to disappear, if not the decline in religious belief? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/323 "2025-04-22T14:04:12Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Possible. What do you think could have caused these ‘basic impulses of decency’ to disappear, if not the decline in religious belief? Gaslighting by right-wing media sources, backed by malign foreign actors. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/324 "2025-04-22T14:29:22Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > What do you think could have caused these ‘basic impulses of decency’ to disappear, if not the decline in religious belief? I guess you’ve missed the American Christians rejecting these ‘basic impulses of decency’ because their Christianity is informed by their conservatism and those impulses are rejected as being ‘’‘woke’‘’? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/325 "2025-04-22T14:31:33Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Possible. What do you think could have caused these ‘basic impulses of decency’ to disappear, if not the decline in religious belief? Not a decline, Trump is their God now. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/326 "2025-04-22T14:49:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You are in reality defending the things that got us here, the denial of justice for minorities, women and others was here first, not what in reality does and will benefit all. Penny-wise but pound foolish. yes, exactly. And very good links, thanks for sharing them. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/327 "2025-04-22T15:05:12Z")
I have a ‘canned’ answer for this one at the ready: The RW ethos is that might makes right. Trump mocking disabled NYT reporter, Serge Kovaleski, epitomized this. Punching down is now done both for fun AND for profit. The RWNJs have made it cool to spit on orphans and homeless people, go sport hunting for illegal aliens and minorities, to subjugate women, and to root for Vladimir Putin (Fer Chrissakes) in his unprovoked war of aggression against Ukraine. As a lifetime Independent, I was pretty okay with the Republicans being against everything that Democrats stood for. I’m less okay with them now being against everything that, historically, the United States of America stood for. I am FAR less okay with their totally indecent pursuit of what they cynically call ‘decency.’ [Also …] _“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”_ –John Kenneth Galbraith Trump – like other RW demagogues – has tremendous appeal to the mouth-breathers, because he tells them that they shouldn’t have to care about less fortunate people, the planet, the environment, or minorities. He doesn’t ask them to be ‘better people’ in any way, shape or form, the way that most past Presidents have. He encourages them to be proud of their baser instincts and worst qualities. In short, he applauds them for their “religiosity” while simultaneously absolving them from any need to actually be decent human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/328 "2025-04-22T15:10:46Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > What do you think could have caused these ‘basic impulses of decency’ to disappear, if not the decline in religious belief? The _increase_ in religious belief. As the Right has become more and more religious, it has become more and more psychopathic, greedy, bigoted, irrational and sadistic. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/329 "2025-04-22T15:22:29Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > From everything I’ve been seeing, the US has been following in the footsteps of European countries with declining religiosity. Like maybe they aren’t actual atheists, but I heard regular attendance at churches and other places of worship has fallen dramatically in the last few decades. So I’m surprised to see someone bring up atheism as an issue now. American church attendance is declining, but they are still quick to judge atheists. Quitting church is fairly easy; people do it out of a change in location, or laziness, or a change in a particular church. It doesn’t mean the person has decided God doesn’t exist. That’s a lot harder. I’ve done both of those things, but I’ve still not done the final, most difficult step: openly identifying as an atheist. The risk of backlash is too great. So I’m quiet about it, and if pressed I’m an agnostic, i.e. “who knows, it’s unknowable”. Skipping church but judging atheists is a very American thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/330 "2025-04-22T15:33:03Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Skipping church but judging atheists is a very American thing to do. To be fair, a lot of people have moved past the old “going to church is more important than living by the tenets of one’s faith”. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/331 "2025-04-22T15:38:24Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > The RW ethos is that might makes right. I strongly disagree. The right wing would have gone absolutely berserk if Obama or Biden had abused their power to stomp on conservatives. They would NOT have said, “Well, Obama/Biden have power, so since might makes right, it’s okay for them to trample us.” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/332 "2025-04-22T15:43:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The _increase_ in religious belief. As the Right has become more and more religious, it has become more and more psychopathic, greedy, bigoted, irrational and sadistic. I think it’s more of the fundamentalist group than general religion or even Christianity. The fundamentalists are extremely authoritarian, they are obsessed with people being indoctrinated into what are essentially cults that practically worship some pastor that runs a massive organization, taking people’s money and brainwashing them into slavish obedience. It’s terrifying to watch one documentary after another of the abuse coming from these groups. Trump is basically the secular equivalent of that, and despite the fact that he’s about as Christian as Richard Dawkins, they adore him anyway because he embodies what their movement is really about. Grift, hatred, fear, and authoritarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/333 "2025-04-22T16:01:35Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I think it’s more of the fundamentalist group than general religion or even Christianity. But it’s the dominant form of Christianity in the US; often even called “American Christianity”. The other factions are barely even acknowledged to exist. You seen it in debates here, for example. People start talking about an issue like same sex marriage and bring up the “opinions of religious people”, but the opinion of fundamentalist right version of Christianity is the only one acknowledge. Even when people from other sects or religions speak up they are just talked over; if they aren’t a far right Christian fundamentalist, they aren’t considered “religious”. Or even acknowledged. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/334 "2025-04-22T16:13:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But it’s the dominant form of Christianity in the US; often even called “American Christianity”. The other factions are barely even acknowledged to exist. It’s slightly under 25% of all Christians in the US. Which in my opinion is still far too high (I’d be good with 0%) but it’s hardly “dominant”. **Politically** , yes, because most other Christians are good with the separation of church and state, at least to the extent that they aren’t trying to force it into the government. And if that’s what you meant by “dominant” then I agree with you. Christian Nationalism is a damn plague. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/335 "2025-04-22T16:18:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Christian Nationalism is a damn plague. Not all Christian Nationalists are fundamentalist Protestants. There’s plenty of Catholics and Orthodox in addition to regular ol’ Protestants. Christian Nationalism is a Christian plague. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/336 "2025-04-22T16:23:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > **Politically** , yes, because most other Christians are good with the separation of church and state, at least to the extent that they aren’t trying to force it into the government. And if that’s what you meant by “dominant” then I agree with you. Basically yes. They have the political power, and they control the Christian “brand” in the US to such an extent that regardless of membership number, when people _say_ “Christianity”, _that_ is what people think of. Other factions are just not treated as existing, or as Christian if they are acknowledged to exist. Which is how people like self-described devout Christian Barack Obama & former Sunday School teacher Hillary Clinton get branded as enemies of Christianity, and Trump the walking embodiment of the Seven Deadly Sins gets hailed as the literal champion of Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/337 "2025-04-22T16:42:37Z")
Almost all the Christian Nationalists I know are Catholic. Literally all but one. They have issues with the late Pope Francis, but still identify as Catholic. Most of them are Brown (South Asian) but are extremely hostile to the other Brown people (Hispanics and Haitians) “taking over” their parishes. They had no problem when these parishes were 95% white 40 years ago. Now that they are 50% Hispanic it’s freak-out time. First generation immigrants who mostly came here (or at least stayed here) illegally in the 1980s are now all about “law-and-order”. Well except for labor laws, environmental laws, tax laws… ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/338 "2025-04-22T16:53:44Z")
It’s either 1. They’re tired of their facts and sound reasoning being countered with insults and lies, or 2. They’re unable to counter facts and sound reasoning with anything but insults and lies. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/339 "2025-04-22T18:35:28Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Saying atheist or agnostic was like ~~declaring the world was flat, or that the governor of Arkansa’s wife was a lizard person~~ saying some kind of total nonsense that could not possibly be believed.. Dubious about the agnostic claim. I’ve encountered zero problems being an open agnostic. That’s not definitive evidence, but I can’t recall _reading_ about self-identified agnostics who have encountered problems in the US. I mean I trust they have, but methinks it’s not common on average. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Correlation/causation uncertainty. It’s not shown that the influence of religious belief is actually what caused many mainstream conservatives back in the day to show some decency about helping the poor and suffering. It may well be that it was the other way around: their basic impulses of decency were what led them to self-identify with religious belief that advocated helping the poor and suffering. Agreed in full, though I lean towards the view that Christianity has injected decency into American conservatism, somewhat. Ross Douthat: “If you dislike the religious right, wait till you meet the post-religious right.” To be more specific, here’s a Noah Smith post: > **[Republicans and the Great Replacement](https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/republicans-and-the-great-replacement)** > > The idea that they're being "replaced" is now part of the core GOP ideology > With nothing else left to hold onto — no economic program, no religion, [no flag](https://twitter.com/csilverandgold/status/1382153506883264512) — is it any wonder that conservatives are looking for something new to unite around? And here comes the Great Replacement theory, offering one unified explanation of why conservatives are declining in cultural and political power. It’s all about Them. The newcomers. Resist the inflow of aliens, and perhaps the center-right nation you remember can be restored. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2025, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/340 "2025-04-22T22:50:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I strongly disagree. The right wing would have gone absolutely berserk if Obama or Biden had abused their power to stomp on conservatives. They would NOT have said, “Well, Obama/Biden have power, so since might makes right, it’s okay for them to trample us.” Lol. 💯 * * * > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’ve still not done the final, most difficult step: openly identifying as an atheist. I guess atheism must still be a bigger deal than I thought. I’ve never had any fear of telling people I’m an atheist, but I actually feel similarly about some of the more conservative things I’ve come to believe. We must have very different social surroundings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016.md?page=18)