# Why have conservatives left this message board? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 14, 2025, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016 "2025-04-14T01:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Surfing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5fc32e/32.png) [@Surfing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surfing)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/541 "2025-05-09T18:33:27Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > But that just underlines the way that conservatives lack self awareness Not really much of a conservative but it strikes me as funny that this was in the first reply. Maybe conservatives leave because the first reply to a post asking the question insults them? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/542 "2025-05-09T18:37:15Z")
> [@SSgt.Melton](#): > > If you were around in the 50’s the 80’s you know what it was like to be proud of our country. We were taught History, Civics-Government, Reading, Writing - (language arts), Mathematics, and we had Physical Education / Health classes. If you really are who you say you are, and truly are a veteran that loves this country, and truly were born in the 40s, then a couple of questions for you: Did you support the Civil Rights movement? Did you march alongside Black Americans fighting for their rights against white supremacists? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/543 "2025-05-09T18:44:36Z")
> [@Surfing](#): > > Maybe conservatives leave because the first reply to a post asking the question insults them? Umm, how can a poster that says this, > [@SSgt.Melton](#): > > Unsure if this is a liberal board, I just signed up today. possibly answer the question in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/544 "2025-05-09T19:06:00Z")
> [@SSgt.Melton](#): > > If you were around in the 50’s the 80’s you know what it was like to be proud of our country. We were taught History, Civics-Government, Reading, Writing - (language arts), Mathematics, and we had Physical Education / Health classes. We didn’t pass students just to pass them, they had to earn it. Evidently, Sarge, you aren’t too well informed on the history of educational policy in the US, despite what you think you know from some mix of your personal experience and right-wing propaganda. Contrary to what you claimed, “social promotion” policies (to pass students through school grades with their age cohorts even if they hadn’t met some academic pass-level criterion, as opposed to “grade retention” outcomes where lower-achieving students were “held back” to repeat a grade), [were very much a thing](https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ895689.pdf) in “the 50’s the 80’s”. > [@](#): > > Debates concerning social promotion began almost as soon as the first graded schools were established. In the early nineteenth century, it was not uncommon for students of all ages to be taught by one teacher in one large, common room. […] > > Yet even as the graded school was becoming the norm, communities became concerned about the large numbers of students being retained […]. Through the early twentieth century, decisions to promote students from one grade to the next were based largely on how well students performed on a series of standard tests. […] By the turn of the twentieth century, retention rates had reached nearly 50 percent, and 20 percent of all students left school before finishing eighth grade […] > > A low-cost solution to both problems was social promotion, or simply promoting students along with their age groups—whether they had adequately mastered required skills or not. By the 1930s, and to the end of the twentieth century, social promotion was the norm in schools across the country […] What happened around the '80s and '90s was not, as you mistakenly believe, the introduction of social promotion to a previously more rigorous system. Quite the contrary. What happened then was the large-scale adoption by educational reform movements (especially influenced by the US National Commission on Excellence in Education’s 1983 study A Nation At Risk) of policies opposing social promotion. There, Sarge, wasn’t that interesting? Isn’t it more satisfying to read about more detailed research and more complicated realities in the actual development of societal changes than to just parrot propaganda slogans about how things in general were “better in the old days”? That fundamental position, that finding out the messy realities of knowledge is more fun than just repeating the errors and oversimplifications of ignorance, is the founding principle of the Straight Dope Message Board. If you can learn to appreciate it, you may find your experience here very rewarding. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/545 "2025-05-09T19:25:40Z")
A few simple questions: 1. Do you believe that black, Asian, and Hispanic people are treated with equality in this country, both under the law and in opportunity? 2. If no, do you believe that the government (ostensibly of, for, and by the people), has a responsibility to take measures to increase the participation and equalize the opportunity of the minority citizens it represents? If not, why not? 3. If yes, what in the world would possibly make you believe that? Please provide citations. Barring overt racism I can’t fathom why anyone could possibly be against diversity, equality, and inclusion. And man, that’s just the tip of this particular iceberg. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/546 "2025-05-09T21:15:51Z")
I would rather hear more conservative voices at this point. I’m tired of the line that all of Trump’s voters are stupid and racist. Even if Trump does the most terrible things of any leader ever, I would still want to understand why, what people see in him. I do think he has the ability to talk to people in a straight talk sense, I think he trounced Hillary and Harris in that regard. Appeal to common, perhaps less sophisticated people. The Dems lost the poor vote for the first time in probably ever, I do think their appeal has gone more towards the college educated, perhaps people more concerned with social issues, and away from the economically disadvantaged. I do consider that they lost the poor vote something of a disgrace on the Dems part. I think the Dems are increasingly having a hard time communicating with those less educated. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/547 "2025-05-09T21:19:12Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > I’m tired of the line that all of Trump’s voters are stupid and racist. > [@Jay\_Z](#): > > I think the Dems are increasingly having a hard time communicating with those less educated. You’re kind of saying it yourself though. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/548 "2025-05-09T21:24:13Z")
The main reason is that most Democratic leaders are - well, rich. And rich people, regardless of political affiliation, tend to be, by their very nature, pretty isolated and out of touch with the plight of the poor. The average Democratic senator, mayor, governor, etc. is pretty well off financially. Stories about grocery prices jumping by 70% in six years may fall on deaf ears if they don’t even need to do their own shopping or make their own meals. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/549 "2025-05-09T21:25:42Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The main reason is that most Democratic leaders are - well, rich. And rich people, regardless of political affiliation, tend to be, by their very nature, pretty isolated and out of touch with the plight of the poor. As opposed to the salt of the earth figures the Right loves, like… (Checks notes) Donald Trump and Elon Musk. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/550 "2025-05-09T21:30:37Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > As opposed to the salt of the earth figures the Right loves, like… (Checks notes) Donald Trump and Elon Musk. It’s better to say that “leaders are rich”, period. And it has always been this way. This country wasn’t founded by poor people. Sure, there are exceptions, but they are notable because of that. Generally, you need to have money to open the doors to getting such a position. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/551 "2025-05-09T21:59:39Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You’re kind of saying it yourself though. Less educated \<\> stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/552 "2025-05-09T22:03:40Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Less educated \<\> stupid. But less educated _does_ generally mean “ignorant”, and that’s far more often used as an accusation for Trump voters than “stupid”. There is overwhelming evidence that Trump’s rhetoric is full of two things… Lies and hatred. Lies are things that people fall for when they are ignorant (willful or otherwise). Hatred appeals to bigots. It sucks when reality insults a group of people but there you go. You choose to be dissatisfied with people who observe the phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/553 "2025-05-09T22:11:18Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > I’m tired of the line that all of Trump’s voters are stupid and racist. So, having read SSgt.Melton’s first post exactly how more tired are you? Ya know, the epitome of the ignorance and bigotry that we’ve all come to expect from Trump voters. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/554 "2025-05-09T22:28:21Z")
It’s pretty easy to find conservative message boards if someone is that interested in hearing that viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/555 "2025-05-09T22:49:12Z")
Voters are customers, like it or not. It’s a popularity contest. These people that voted for Trump, their vote counts as much as yours. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/556 "2025-05-09T22:53:16Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > It’s a popularity contest. These people that voted for Trump, their vote counts as much as yours. And we’re free to judge them on their choices. The huge numbers of such voters are the reason I have lost faith in this country that I used to hold in very high regard. > [@Atamasama](#): > > There is overwhelming evidence that Trump’s rhetoric is full of two things… Lies and hatred. Yep. And it worked. That tells us something. Not something good, but something. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/557 "2025-05-09T22:53:42Z")
Of course, and most polls are reporting that a good chunk of the ones that voted would not vote for him, knowing what they know now. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/558 "2025-05-09T22:58:29Z")
Customers often buy in error. Buyer beware. Do you really think Trumpchevski and his lot care about the poor/disenfranchised? Thats a little nutty. Trump is sociopathic. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/559 "2025-05-09T23:03:22Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > I would rather hear more conservative voices at this point. But it seems to be getting harder and harder to find ones that maintain any principled opposition to ignorance. I would be perfectly happy to see more posters on the SDMB arguing in favor of conservative positions from a well-informed, factually-based, and intelligently reasoned viewpoint. But as US “conservatism” continues to decay into outright lies and irrationality, it’s getting harder and harder for it to attract such viewpoints. Look at the recently arrived SSgt.Melton and his “beliefs” that Biden’s election was illegitimate, that “social promotion” wasn’t a thing in midcentury American schools, that DOGE is accomplishing constructive things, that “Trump is an angel” compared to Democrats, that Obama had significant “ties” to 1970s Weather Underground leader Bill Ayers. How are you going to find anti-ignorance common ground with someone starting from there? I think it would be possible in theory to have constructive conversations with somebody who shares SSgt.Melton’s poorly-informed distrust of standard conservative “boogeyman” concepts like DEI, gender identity, “woke”, Obamacare, etc. But not if that person is impervious to factual reality. Most conservatives nowadays seem to be so marinated in right-wing media party lines that they automatically reject anything that contradicts those lines, or arguments that require learning some additional background knowledge to understand them. What’s the point of arguing with somebody with whom you can’t even agree on what counts as adequate justification for an assertion of fact? I served my time having those arguments with posters like Starving Artist, and it was pretty much always the same. He’d launch some diatribe based on suppositions that he pulled out of his ass, and I’d patiently go through his assumptions and inferences with cites and quotes showing why they were wrong, and he’d motte-and-bailey the argument or deflect into some tangential topic, and on it would go. And then the next time the topic came up, he’d make the same ill-supported diatribe all over again. Dopers who say that they miss the diversity of viewpoints that a greater number of conservative posters used to bring to the SDMB may be misremembering just how intractably irrational and ill-informed some of those viewpoints used to be. Yeah sure, it would be nice to have more intelligent, rational and well-informed opposing viewpoints to discuss with. But modern “conservatism” is becoming ever more hostile to intelligence, rationality and information. I don’t think that there’s a magical island of those intelligent, rational and well-informed conservative unicorns somewhere out there in the depths of the internet, who would come and play with us if only we would be more welcoming to them. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2025, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016/560 "2025-05-09T23:16:16Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Of course, and most polls are reporting that a good chunk of the ones that voted would not vote for him, knowing what they know now. Most of the polls I have seen have shown most would still vote for Trump. Once a racist piece of shit, always a racist piece of shit. > **[The Myth of the Regretful Trump Voter](https://www.wakeuptopolitics.com/p/the-myth-of-the-regretful-trump-voter)** > > Don’t fall for the “anecdata.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-conservatives-left-this-message-board/1017016.md?page=29)