# Why have Democrats and Republicans refused to vote on H.R 40 for 25 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653 "2014-05-30T18:04:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/241 "2014-06-04T20:34:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ve addressed all of this. There are multiple other ways that these things might be confirmed, including other records, eyewitness reports, and government documents. You keep saying this, but you never get around to identifying these “other records” and “government documents.” I don’t think they exist. You apply for a loan, the bank declines the loan, the bank destroys the loan application. _Finis_. The bank never told the IRS, or the local human rights commission, or the Treasury, or any other governmental body that you applied. For that matter, the biggest problem was banks that refused to accept the loan application in redlined areas in the first place–no document was EVER generated by ANYBODY that you ever even thought about applying. After 50 years, the notion that eyewitnesses are going to be available is likewise extremely unrealistic. Who are these people who had detailed knowledge of a black family’s intentions, finances, and so forth? The bank and the real estate company, assuming they even had somebody still around, are not going to be providing the statements. What you are suggesting, in the real world, amounts to, “Tell me you were discriminated against and I’ll give you lots of money.” > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > We could look at tax records, property records, utility records, debt records, eyewitness testimony, personal letters and records, school records, etc. There is more than one way to skin this cat. Utility records and debt records basically don’t exist anymore for that time period, so forget those. Eyewitnesses who were adults in the 1960s are elderly now (assuming they are even still alive), and trying to get detailed recollections of events a half-century ago is extremely difficult. Have you ever seriously looked at school and tax records to see what kinds of information can be obtained therefrom? I don’t think it’s anywhere near as much as you seem to think. You are not talking about a “difficult” undertaking. You are talking about a herculean undertaking that would in the end result in a haphazard, arbitrary, and incomplete listing, because most of the information you need was destroyed long ago. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Just like Japanese-American internee reparations, by the way. They weren’t perfect either. The bulk of Japanese American internee reparations consisted of flat payments: if your name was on the lists kept during the war, you got $20,000. For African-American victims of discrimination, we don’t have the list, and we don’t have any realistic way of preparing the list. That’s a pretty major distinction. I don’t think you are talking about a process that would result in “some people missing out”–you are talking about a process in which the overwhelming majority of those affected would have no documentation whatsoever to prove any claim. How would a process like that hope to achieve any measure of fairness at all? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/242 "2014-06-04T20:52:18Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > For African-American victims of discrimination, we don’t have the list, and we don’t have any realistic way of preparing the list. Yeah we do – black people who lived in those areas. That’s not hard to find. Considering the extent of housing discrimination, and considering how just living in the redlining areas contributed to higher risk of crime, lower access to services, on top of the reduced ability to compete fairly in the economy, that’s likely to be a mostly accurate list. For other types of discrimination (Jim Crow, segregation, etc.) a reasonably complete list would be “black people born before year X”. Far from perfect, but considering the extent and power that white supremacy had until quite recently, it would be a reasonable place to start. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/243 "2014-06-04T20:55:35Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Giving grist to the stereotype mill is rarely good policy. Okay, so this might count as a slight negative. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/244 "2014-06-04T21:03:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yeah we do – black people who lived in those areas. That’s not hard to find. As long as they are still alive, have great memories and haven’t moved away. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/245 "2014-06-04T21:06:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, so this might count as a slight negative. It wouldn’t take too many people getting money erroneously based on not much more than personal testimony for that “slight negative” to turn into a very ugly scandal. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/246 "2014-06-04T21:13:39Z")
\*\*Why have Democrats and Republicans refused to vote on H.R 40 for 25 years? \*\* > [@Honesty](#): > > It’s called closure. > > - Honesty I think the biggest reason it’s being held back is the fear that there will be no closure. I’d guess there’s a fear that once the can of worms is opened no report, no conclusion, and no reparation plan will ever be acceptable to anyone. That a lot of bad feelings will be aroused that will prevent even a prayer of concensus. That the best result will be a compromise, not a concensus, leaving nobody satisfied, but everybody craving satisfaction. If you think that a study on such a hot-button topic will just be accepted and acted on, try looking up climate change. There will be denial and there will be ugliness. Also, everyone associated with the study, including anyone voting for or against it and anyone making a public stance on the subject, will be dragged through fire. Practically speaking, it would be voting to pin a target to the back of every legislator, researcher, and committee member involved. Most legislators don’t want to do that. There’s a parallel to NIMBY (not in my back yard) called NIMTOO (not in my turn of office). America may have a boil that needs to be lanced, and this study may be a tool that can help do it. But that’s not assured. The pain from starting to cut - that’s assured. So they’re ducking and hoping that the swelling will go down on its own. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/247 "2014-06-04T21:46:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yeah we do – black people who lived in those areas. That’s not hard to find. Okay, so where do we find this list? Here’s an experiment: point us to a list of all the blacks who lived in redlined areas of Kansas City, Kansas, between 1960 and 1970. The city doesn’t have it. The county doesn’t have it. The state of Kansas doesn’t have it. The federal government doesn’t have it. The school system doesn’t have it. The utility company doesn’t have it. The banks don’t have it. All of these institutions put together don’t have such a list or any means of compiling such a list. So where is it? Have you ever looked for it? A list or map of the redlined areas probably would not be that difficult to locate: the National Archives would be the first place to start. The problem comes in figuring out who lived there and when. In the U.S. we don’t have residency permits or the like–people move in and out of cities all the time. Even the records that do exist won’t tell you as much as you apparently think: tax records, e.g., don’t list race. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/248 "2014-06-04T22:09:01Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Okay, so where do we find this list? > > Here’s an experiment: point us to a list of all the blacks who lived in redlined areas of Kansas City, Kansas, between 1960 and 1970. > > The city doesn’t have it. The county doesn’t have it. The state of Kansas doesn’t have it. The federal government doesn’t have it. The school system doesn’t have it. The utility company doesn’t have it. The banks don’t have it. All of these institutions put together don’t have such a list or any means of compiling such a list. > > So where is it? Have you ever looked for it? > > A list or map of the redlined areas probably would not be that difficult to locate: the National Archives would be the first place to start. > > The problem comes in figuring out who lived there and when. In the U.S. we don’t have residency permits or the like–people move in and out of cities all the time. Even the records that do exist won’t tell you as much as you apparently think: tax records, e.g., don’t list race. It’s not a list that exists, but it’s a list that shouldn’t be too hard to put together. My father has found residency (including address) records for some ancestors back to the 18th century. Even if there are no physical records in existence for these areas (and, of course, there are lots – including town hall records, old phone books, utility records, property records, church records, etc.), it still would be achievable. First step could be to just ask “who lived in this area?” For everyone who comes forward, we try to corroborate the info with each other… ask people who their neighbors are, what store was down the street, what church they went to, etc. This would be a big undertaking, but since we’re dealing with living people, this is very achievable. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/249 "2014-06-04T22:58:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not a list that exists, but it’s a list that shouldn’t be too hard to put together. My father has found residency (including address) records for some ancestors back to the 18th century. > > Even if there are no physical records in existence for these areas (and, of course, there are lots – including town hall records, old phone books, utility records, property records, church records, etc.), it still would be achievable. First step could be to just ask “who lived in this area?” For everyone who comes forward, we try to corroborate the info with each other… ask people who their neighbors are, what store was down the street, what church they went to, etc. This would be a big undertaking, but since we’re dealing with living people, this is very achievable. Finding a residency record for somebody whose name you know is an entirely different task than determining everyone who lived in an area. “town hall records”–what are those? Cities keep distinct record series–taxes, permits, complaints, etc., not some generic ‘town hall records.’ What record series do you think they will have that would be relevant or helpful? old phone books–won’t tell you race, won’t tell you about anyone other than the head of household, and won’t tell you about anybody who didn’t have a phone at all (still a significant problem in the 1960s–in some states, half of households did not have a telephone available). utility records–are not going to exist for the time period property records–will give you the name (but not the race) of the property owner, but will tell you nothing at all about who actually lived there church records–possible but unlikely, because many denominations don’t keep detailed records in the first place, and the preservation and accessibility of the extant records varies remarkably. “First step could be to just ask “who lived in this area?”” Who are you going to ask? Nearly half of the Americans alive in the early 1960s are dead now; many of the remainder either were too young then or are too memory-challenged now to be able to answer your questions. “Very achievable” is not a description I would apply to your project. “Massively complex,” “incredibly laborious,” and “error-riddled” I’ll give you, but not “very achievable.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/250 "2014-06-05T00:13:24Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Finding a residency record for somebody whose name you know is an entirely different task than determining everyone who lived in an area. > > “town hall records”–what are those? Cities keep distinct record series–taxes, permits, complaints, etc., not some generic ‘town hall records.’ What record series do you think they will have that would be relevant or helpful? > > old phone books–won’t tell you race, won’t tell you about anyone other than the head of household, and won’t tell you about anybody who didn’t have a phone at all (still a significant problem in the 1960s–in some states, half of households did not have a telephone available). > > utility records–are not going to exist for the time period > > property records–will give you the name (but not the race) of the property owner, but will tell you nothing at all about who actually lived there > > church records–possible but unlikely, because many denominations don’t keep detailed records in the first place, and the preservation and accessibility of the extant records varies remarkably. > > “First step could be to just ask “who lived in this area?”” Who are you going to ask? Nearly half of the Americans alive in the early 1960s are dead now; many of the remainder either were too young then or are too memory-challenged now to be able to answer your questions. “Very achievable” is not a description I would apply to your project. “Massively complex,” “incredibly laborious,” and “error-riddled” I’ll give you, but not “very achievable.” It’d be tough. You seem to think it would be harder than I do. My experiencing with genealogical research tells me that it would be possible to find most of this stuff for most people, given time and effort. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/251 "2014-06-05T00:46:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’d be tough. You seem to think it would be harder than I do. My experiencing with genealogical research tells me that it would be possible to find most of this stuff for most people, given time and effort. My experience dealing specifically with inner-city research (including genealogical) tells me it would not. The processes of genealogical research are very different from what you are proposing, and I don’t think you grasp the differences. As a genealogist, you start with a name and a location and work backwards; here, you’d be starting with merely a location and trying to work forwards. Just take a single address: who lived there in 1965? If the property was a rental (low home ownership rates, remember?), then tax and property records will tell you nothing about the resident. Most other forms of records are going to be arranged by name, but you don’t have the name. You could get somebody to input the entire phone directory into a searchable database, so if the resident had a phone, you might find him or her, but they might not have had a phone. (Nationwide, 20% of households lacked access to a phone in 1960. That’s not “lacked one in their own dwelling and name”; that is “lacked one on which people who live in the household can be called.” In minority neighborhoods, the percentage went up.) City directories, particularly for minority neighborhoods in big cities, tend to be quite incomplete; multi-family units such as apartments are often a total washout. School records are organized by name; the abstracted records, which are likely all that is left after this many years, may or may not have a single address attached, but they probably don’t have an address history (“Susie lived here in 1st and 2nd grades, but then moved there for 3rd and half of 4th…”) Utility records are not available. Church records are not arranged by and may not include an address. Where would YOU start with a question like “who lived at 123 Fourth St in 196x?” or even “who lived on Fourth St in the 1960s”? In which set of records or documents would you begin? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/252 "2014-06-05T04:36:30Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Can we request a name change for **Honesty**? I swear to God there must be must be some mandatory clause you (and others) have with your ISP to make a crack about my screenname every month. I am curious: what is the deal ya’ll get from your ISP? $10 off your cable bill? A free month of Xfinity on-demand? 3-months free of HBO and Showtime? I replied to your post in #26 and #28 and you stepped right over that and decided to post this. Then, on top of that, you excised a portion of my post without the use of ellipses. So here’s what I am going to do: I’ve put you on ignore. If my honesty is questioned in this regard, the administrators and moderators have my full permission to confirm this action to you. You (or anyone else) won’t [Arafat](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=705025) me in this thread. Sorry. If you (or anyone else) has an issue with my screen name then I encourage you to send me a PM so I can put you on ignore, too. It’s no problem. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Mississippi has not](http://www.ncsl.org/Portals/1/documents/magazine/articles/2008/08SLJune08_StateStats.pdf); Alabama, Maryland, North Carolina, New Jersey, and Virginia have. > > Mississippi ratified the 13th Amendment last year in a purely symbolic gesture, so an apology could be in the near future. This is an interesting map and should be placed in every high school textbook in the U.S. It’s a shame that the same States that advocated slavery and Jim Crow don’t have the confidence and honesty within themselves to apologize. > [@spifflog](#): > > \ > Money is central to the reparations solution. Trying to somehow claim it isn’t, well, I’ll just say doesn’t help your argument and leave it at that. Money is not central to the reparation solution. > [@spifflog](#): > > How about this then. If Congress voted unanimously with the President in full concurrence that Slavery was without question the worst abomination in the history of this nation (and I’d say unequivocally that it was), but there were no financial reparations with it, would that be OK with you? If you can honestly answer yes, than you can argue that this isn’t about the money. > > Can you answer yes? Yes. See final paragraph. > [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, really? Well, you might want to reread your own thread. You know what, **magellan01**. If you think this thread is about getting money from the U.S government. Well, you keep on thinking that. > [@magellan01](#): > > \ > I’d say the bigger influence is Welfare. It is the one thing most responsible for the break-up of the Black family and that I’d say is the primary reason Blacks, writ large, have done so poorly. I love when white people come and try to tell black people what’s wrong with them. Good grief. What about your lack of self-acceptance, self-love, and contrived moral system? Your children run around shooting up each other Columbine-style, get together to consume semen-covered oreos, and have a propensity to act the fool in public. We know damn well when that half-Asian dude shot up those sorority girls there was no discussion of the failings of the “White Family” or the influence of white male privilege on sexism. I am sure, for you all, it boiled down to some inane talking point like “mental illness” or “lone wolf” that allows your conscience to remain oblivious to your own cultural problems. So, please. Black people can succeed just fine as long as white people aren’t obstructing them at every roadbend. We don’t need you, in fact, my friend, you need us more than we need you. As for welfare, that lunch ended in 1996. I don’t know what you’re talking about because eligibility requirements have been tightened to \>100% of the poverty line. Welfare as we know it, is dead. There’s no more government cheese, no more free butter, no more cash payments, and definitely no more rainbow-colored food stamps. Whenever you’re ready, feel free to jump in that time machine, turn the ignition key, and come back to 2014. It’s shinier here. > [@magellan01](#): > > Why don’t you tell them? Who do you think has the best chance of controlling this part of the dialogue, the majority, which is about 16% Black? Or the Black community itself? I have a Black friend who is outlandishly successful, his dream is to bar all Black kids from participating in sports for a couple of generations. Of course it can’t be done, but it does get one thinking about where the problem lies and what would fix it. ``` ......... ``` > [@magellan01](#): > > Complete nonsense. Claiming the problem is lack of money is the oversimplification. Money is not the problem. Oh, but it is. Indexed to inflation, you’ve strangled your education system to the point it has to be privatized. Would you like me to provide the cites? Just say the word, **magellan01**. It’s not a problem. > [@magellan01](#): > > \The problem is millions of kids going to school without getting the most basic education at home. The problem is that many of the worst school districts have an incidence of single-family households of over 95%. The problem is that many Black kids grow up in an environment where there is no love or respect for learning. The problem is that so many young Black kids do not know people who get up to go to a job from \* - 5, five days a week. Education dollars are not the problem. I wish it were that easy. Go read about the Kansas City Experiment. Read _No Excuses, Closing the Racial Gap in Learning_, by Abigail and Stephen Thernstrom. I was just thinking: this paragraph could be said by Donald Sterling, easy. I find it funny that in one hand you claim blacks don’t have “respect for learning” but on the other you claim that blacks advocate sending their children to charter schools. So which is it, Donald? Do blacks have respect for learning or do they prefer to send their children to charter schools for shits and giggles? I hope you realize that both cannot be true though feel free to contort the logic to fit your jigsaw narrative. > [@Yllaria](#): > > I think the biggest reason it’s being held back is the fear that there will be no closure. I’d guess there’s a fear that once the can of worms is opened no report, no conclusion, and no reparation plan will ever be acceptable to anyone. That a lot of bad feelings will be aroused that will prevent even a prayer of concensus. That the best result will be a compromise, not a concensus, leaving nobody satisfied, but everybody craving satisfaction. There would be closure. Surprisingly, white people had the right reparation formula in 1960’s - Affirmative Action, the Voting Rights Act, Equal Pay Act. These were imperfect but suitable reparations for 400 years of mistreatment. Unfortunately, white people decided to renege on these “reparations” immediately after MLK died. He wasn’t in the ground for more than a decade before the Courts start striking them down one-by-one (See _[Bakke](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regents_of_the_University_of_California_v._Bakke)_). Indeed, the [Michigan case that was decided by the Supreme Court](http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-682_j4ek.pdf) was brought on the ballot through [voter fraud](http://www.mied.uscourts.gov/Opinions/tarnowpdf/06cv12773AJT.pdf) and the U.S government did nothing. Moreover, the [striking down Section IV of the Voting Rights Act](http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-96_6k47.pdf) shows that white people are not serious at all in combating and even recognizing there is still systemic racism in this country which was ostensibly borne from the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/253 "2014-06-05T05:08:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry, but when Coates saidwithout specifying the details of said reparations, he _was_ saying the equivalent of “Alakazam!” > The devil is in the details, dude…and I doubt very much _any_ plan could possibly do all that he claims. False. Coates gave Germany as an example. In the face of popular opposition in both Germany and Israel (for different reasons) the Germans paid substantial reparations for the Holocaust. Today Germany and Israel have pretty solid diplomatic relations. More to the point, the rest of Europe has decent relations with Germany as well. So again: wrong. Coates provided a _specific_ model for what he was trying to do. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > This writer is nucking futs. Really? You sure? Because I can vouch with Yglassias’ grasp of economics. The Federal Reserve could run monetary policy by purchasing (used) bonds or by purchasing used cars. They could also do it by cutting checks, if it were permitted. It’s what Bernanke referred to as a [helicopter drop](http://www.federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/Speeches/2002/20021121/default.htm). Last year, the Fed purchased $85 billion per month of securities as part of QE-III; they started tapering that off in September 2013. The idea of spreading out the checks over a 24 month period was to permit some flexibility in the execution of the plan, to address possible overheating. At the moment, conventional monetary policy is maxed out. So there’s a lot of economic scope for this sort of plan, though of course the politics are another matter. > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > **spifflog** : Read the article. The writer is talking about QEII style monetary injections. In theory, that should lead to inflation, all else being equal, which everyone would pay for. Not when the economy is in a liquidity trap, as it is today. After that, there would be scope for substituting in some combination of higher inflation, higher interest rates or lower payouts. All 3 variables are basically at rock bottom at the moment. It’s an economically workable plan. I can think of others. Now obviously the concept is a political non-starter. But Coates’ point is that reparations isn’t as nutty as it sounds. Again: it’s been done before. The way I see it, Germans committed a terrible horror during the 1930s and 1940s but have _credibly_ moved beyond that. At the other side of the spectrum, the Turks claim that they never visited genocide on the Armenians and that there are no dark chapters in Turkish history - not even a page! So what’s it gonna be dopers? All those slaving, rapes, lynchings, terrorism and asshole empowering laws are in the past. Is the country going to acknowledge the past with a fair reckoning? Or are we just going to blather about the founding fathers? Do we want to emulate the post-war Germans or the post-war Turks? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/254 "2014-06-05T11:14:22Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > My experience dealing specifically with inner-city research (including genealogical) tells me it would not. My experience is different then yours, but it still tells me it would be difficult. Difficult is far from impossible. We don’t need to continue this “how difficult would it be” – we both think it would be… and obviously I think it would be worth it, and you don’t seem to. > [@](#): > > Where would YOU start with a question like “who lived at 123 Fourth St in 196x?” or even “who lived on Fourth St in the 1960s”? In which set of records or documents would you begin? I wouldn’t do it that way – I’d go the other way. I would put out the maps and say “who lived in this area”? People would come forward. Then I’d say “where exactly did you live”? People would give me addresses. Then I’d say “do you have any paperwork or other witness testimony that supports this claim that you lived there?”. Then I’d check this paperwork and witness testimony. And I’d check people’s claims against other people’s claims. For cases with little or no evidence, I’d go into city records, old phone books, church records, etc., as well as asking their confirmed neighbors “who lived here” to corroborate. Many of these folks would have records and witnesses and would be easy to corroborate. Once we have neighborhoods starting to fill out a bit, the information will build on itself – we might know for sure who lived in house 3, 4, and 6, but not house 5, so we ask the folks in 3, 4, and 6 “who lived in house 5?” and compare their answer to the person who said they lived in house 5 but didn’t have solid evidence. Sure, lots of work, and it wouldn’t be perfect. But that’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/255 "2014-06-05T12:03:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I wouldn’t do it that way – I’d go the other way. I would put out the maps and say “who lived in this area”? People would come forward. _What_ people? The ones that moved away? The ones that are dead? The people that moved into the neighborhood within the last five years? The ones that don’t get involved with their neighborhood at all? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/256 "2014-06-05T12:12:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _What_ people? The ones that moved away? The ones that are dead? The people that moved into the neighborhood within the last five years? The ones that don’t get involved with their neighborhood at all? Huh? We’re talking about living people who lived in redlining areas while they were redlined. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/257 "2014-06-05T12:38:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Huh? We’re talking about living people who lived in redlining areas while they were redlined. Unless you’re hopping into your time machine and interviewing them when it happened, then what you are talking about is interviewing people _that aren’t there any more._ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/258 "2014-06-05T12:44:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unless you’re hopping into your time machine and interviewing them when it happened, then what you are talking about is interviewing people _that aren’t there any more._ Right, which is why I’d ask them to come to me (if I were administering this fictional program in which we’ve put approxmately 20 minutes of preliminary thought into). So some ads, some news stories, etc., asking those who lived under redlining to contact the program’s staff. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/259 "2014-06-05T12:46:51Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Any discussion of reparations now will, I’m afraid, only reinforce the views of contemporary racists that blacks are just looking for a government handout. [/QUOTE] Apart from the word “just”, in what way is this inaccurate? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/260 "2014-06-05T12:48:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right, which is why I’d ask them to come to me (if I were administering this fictional program in which we’ve put approxmately 20 minutes of preliminary thought into). So some ads, some news stories, etc., asking those who lived under redlining to contact me. The percentage of American that know what “redlining” even means is probably very small, and the percentage of those that know they were victims of it…? I swear, if I were looking for a way to pay out to as few a number of African Americans as possible, I would hire you in a heartbeat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653.md?page=14)