# Why have Democrats and Republicans refused to vote on H.R 40 for 25 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653 "2014-05-30T18:04:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/301 "2014-06-05T23:48:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If so, then it would be a lot cheaper. But considering we’re talking about people in their 50s and older, there would probably still be millions. No, we’re talking about people who were old enough and financially secure enough to have contemplated buying a house prior to 1974. That means people who are now, at the barest minimum, in their 60s, and most likely in their late 70s and up. There are about 1.5 million blacks in this country aged at least 75 (plus another two million or so aged 65 to 75). Not all of them lived in redlined neighborhoods; even in the 1960s, the rural south was home to a good percentage of blacks, and elsewhere neighborhood integration was starting to happen. Not all of those who did live in redlined neighborhoods would have been in any position to purchase a home even if redlining didn’t exist. Your target population is getting smaller and smaller. Sure, it’s getting cheaper. At what point, though, does it cease to be a meaningful gesture? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/302 "2014-06-06T00:27:10Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > No, we’re talking about people who were old enough and financially secure enough to have contemplated buying a house prior to 1974. > > That means people who are now, at the barest minimum, in their 60s, and most likely in their late 70s and up. > > There are about 1.5 million blacks in this country aged at least 75 (plus another two million or so aged 65 to 75). Not all of them lived in redlined neighborhoods; even in the 1960s, the rural south was home to a good percentage of blacks, and elsewhere neighborhood integration was starting to happen. Not all of those who did live in redlined neighborhoods would have been in any position to purchase a home even if redlining didn’t exist. > > Your target population is getting smaller and smaller. Sure, it’s getting cheaper. At what point, though, does it cease to be a meaningful gesture? Good questions. I’m glad we’ve been able to have this thoughtful conversation about compensation. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/303 "2014-06-06T06:58:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > As do I…but being the right thing to do is only part of it. It would be right for all past injustices throughout the history of our nation to be recompensed in some form or another, but to even attempt to do so would bankrupt our nation both monetarily and spiritually. Funding that was originally designed to move us into the future would instead be spent on figuring out how to assuage the guilt of the past, and taxpayer revolt would make today’s Tea Party fuss look like an actual tea party. > The question is not, and never has been, _Are reparations right?_ > The actual question is _How far are we prepared to go, what are we willing to pay, in time, money and effort, to right this particular wrong?_ But there’s a separate issue. Poverty is a problem shared by all races in America to one extent or another. But white supremacy (and remember we’re talking about lynchings and discrimination as a matter of law here) affects African Americans disproportionately. And the mathematics of compound interest puts the American enterprise in their debt. There’s a case to be made for giving them an extra fill-up. It’s not really about making things even-Steven. That won’t happen because it doesn’t happen. Life doesn’t work that way. The Germans knew that when they made their substantial payments following the Holocaust and the Americans knew that when they granted reparations to the Japanese imprisoned in US concentration camps. Personally the plan in my mind involves a sovereign wealth fund administered transparently and directing scholarships and home loan subsidies towards African Americans. Plus some funds for K-12 (though here I _am_ a little vague). Eligibility decided by a board of governors, culled from the African American Great and Good. But I think such details are beside the point, seeing as this is a political non-starter and that the objections at bottom have nothing to do with administrative plausibility. If they _were_ the chief concern, then HR40 would make a lot of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/304 "2014-06-06T12:53:51Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I swear to God there must be must be some mandatory clause you (and others) have with your ISP to make a crack about my screenname every month. I am curious: what is the deal ya’ll get from your ISP? $10 off your cable bill? A free month of Xfinity on-demand? 3-months free of HBO and Showtime? I replied to your post in #26 and #28 and you stepped right over that and decided to post this. Then, on top of that, you excised a portion of my post without the use of ellipses. So here’s what I am going to do: I’ve put you on ignore. If my honesty is questioned in this regard, the administrators and moderators have my full permission to confirm this action to you. You (or anyone else) won’t [Arafat](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=705025) me in this thread. Sorry. If you (or anyone else) has an issue with my screen name then I encourage you to send me a PM so I can put you on ignore, too. It’s no problem. Honesty, I’m giving you a warning for this. Not only is this entire rant off topic and personal, but it is specifically forbidden to tell other posters that they have been placed on your ignore list. Please don’t do so again. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/305 "2014-06-06T18:52:36Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Honesty, I’m giving you a warning for this. Not only is this entire rant off topic and personal, but it is specifically forbidden to tell other posters that they have been placed on your ignore list. > > Please don’t do so again. Not a problem, each warning is a badge of honor, Sir. I won’t tolerate the clowns hating on my screen name at every roadbend while, at the same time, adding nothing to the discussion. I’d do it again. If that gets me banned or more warnings, keep them coming. I _want_ to be banned. Thanks. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/306 "2014-06-06T18:54:18Z")
You’re not a martyr if you nail yourself to the cross. just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/307 "2014-06-06T18:56:21Z")
Nice knowing you. Well, not really. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/308 "2014-06-06T19:00:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You’re not a martyr if you nail yourself to the cross. > > just sayin’. Who says I am trying to be a martyr? I just have no tolerance for the navel gazers and ankle twisters who are fervent apologist for racism and sexism. I even have less tolerance for the clowns who add nothing to the discussion except making snipes about my screen name. If that gets me a warning, then so be it, keep them coming. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/309 "2014-06-06T19:01:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nice knowing you. Well, not really. Likewise. 🆒 - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/310 "2014-06-06T19:04:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Ah, yes-your “All Expenses Paid Trip To Candyland” proposal. > As has been pointed out to you over and over again, _Candyland doesn’t exist._ You’re right, Sir. _Candyland_ does not exist but Canada, Mexico, South America, and Europe sure do. Your reality may differ. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/311 "2014-06-06T19:08:24Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I even have less tolerance for the clowns who add nothing to the discussion except making snipes about my screen name. If that gets me a warning, then so be it, keep them coming. > > - Honesty Ok, I’ll oblige. Your screen name tastes like pineapples. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/312 "2014-06-06T19:13:51Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > My experience dealing specifically with inner-city research (including genealogical) tells me it would not. > > The processes of genealogical research are very different from what you are proposing, and I don’t think you grasp the differences. As a genealogist, you start with a name and a location and work backwards; here, you’d be starting with merely a location and trying to work forwards. > > Just take a single address: who lived there in 1965? If the property was a rental (low home ownership rates, remember?), then tax and property records will tell you nothing about the resident. Most other forms of records are going to be arranged by name, but you don’t have the name. You could get somebody to input the entire phone directory into a searchable database, so if the resident had a phone, you might find him or her, but they might not have had a phone. (Nationwide, 20% of households lacked access to a phone in 1960. That’s not “lacked one in their own dwelling and name”; that is “lacked one on which people who live in the household can be called.” In minority neighborhoods, the percentage went up.) City directories, particularly for minority neighborhoods in big cities, tend to be quite incomplete; multi-family units such as apartments are often a total washout. School records are organized by name; the abstracted records, which are likely all that is left after this many years, may or may not have a single address attached, but they probably don’t have an address history (“Susie lived here in 1st and 2nd grades, but then moved there for 3rd and half of 4th…”) Utility records are not available. Church records are not arranged by and may not include an address. > > Where would YOU start with a question like “who lived at 123 Fourth St in 196x?” or even “who lived on Fourth St in the 1960s”? In which set of records or documents would you begin? Before I tackle this, can I make a request? Could you detail your extensive experience with inner city research? Have you been published the _Journal of Genealogy_ or any other peer-reviewed journal regarding genealogy that could be accessible through the journal’s website, Pubmed, or the Library of Congress? Don’t worry, I still have access via my [alma mater](http://www.umich.edu/), so all I need is a reference. Lastly, could you tell us a bit about your didactic training as a genealogist researcher and tie that with any seminars, talks, or conferences you may have attended that may be pertinent to African-American genealogy. Thanks so much. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/313 "2014-06-06T19:14:07Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > You’re right, Sir. _Candyland_ does not exist but Canada, Mexico, South America, and Europe sure do. Your reality may differ. > > - Honesty You have already been shown the realities concerning emigration to each and every one of those places, _and_ been told repeatedly that South America and Europe are continents and not countries. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/314 "2014-06-06T19:16:27Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Ok, I’ll oblige. > > Your screen name tastes like pineapples. I like your screen name, too. 🙂 It’s creative. Now that I think about it, there should’ve been a drunk smurf on _The Smurfs_. Might have been the first to be gobbled up by Gargamel, though. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/315 "2014-06-06T19:17:54Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Before I tackle this, can I make a request? Could you detail your extensive experience with inner city research? Have you been published the _Journal of Genealogy_ or any other peer-reviewed journal regarding genealogy that could be accessible through the journal’s website, Pubmed, or the Library of Congress? Don’t worry, I still have access via my [alma mater](http://www.umich.edu/), so all I need is a reference. Lastly, could you tell us a bit about your didactic training as a genealogist researcher and tie that with any seminars, talks, or conferences you may have attended that may be pertinent to African-American genealogy. > > Thanks so much. > > - Honesty References? What kind of job are you offering him to make specific demands like that? How much personal information must we reveal of ourselves to qualify talking with you? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/316 "2014-06-06T19:20:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You have already been shown the realities concerning emigration to each and every one of those places, _and_ been told repeatedly that South America and Europe are continents and not countries. I know damn well that South America and Europe are continents. I didn’t feel like listing every damn country there. Don’t insult my intelligence; trust me, my education is just as impressive as yours, but more likely, it likely exceeds yours by a degree (or two). I am not going to rehash that thread here especially when I’ve tackled this before in that thread. But I’ll tell you what my friend: I’ll do you a favor and resurrect the thread and go over this once again, once I finish replying to the people here. Thanks. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/317 "2014-06-06T19:26:03Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I know damn well that South America and Europe are continents. I didn’t feel like listing every damn country there. Don’t insult my intelligence; trust me, my education is just as impressive as yours, but more likely, it likely exceeds yours by a degree (or two). I am not going to rehash that thread here especially when I’ve tackled this before in that thread. But I’ll tell you what my friend: I’ll do you a favor and resurrect the thread and go over this once again, once I finish replying to the people here. > > Thanks. > > - Honesty Oh boy. Leftovers again. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/318 "2014-06-06T19:28:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > References? What kind of job are you offering him to make specific demands like that? How much personal information must we reveal of ourselves to qualify talking with you? Sir, when I say a “reference” I am referring specifically the papers **slash2k’s** must’ve published during his extensive research in genealogy of (and on) African-Americans. I am NOT asking him, as you seem to imply, for personal or professional references as would be asked for a job. Here’s an example of a “reference”: [QUOTE=Example] Narala VR, Adapala RK, Suresh MV, Brock TG, Peters-Golden M, Reddy RC. Leukotriene B4 is a physiologically relevant endogenous peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-alpha agonist. J Biol Chem. 2010 Jul 16;285(29):22067-74. [/QUOTE] Take care, - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/319 "2014-06-06T19:29:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Oh boy. Leftovers again. Well, you were banging your fork and spoon on the table to eat those leftovers. Not a problem for me microwave it and serve it to you (again). Enjoy. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653/320 "2014-06-06T19:31:59Z")
That’s enough of the sniping from both - or all - of you. Any further not-on-topic sniping will earn warnings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-democrats-and-republicans-refused-to-vote-on-h-r-40-for-25-years/689653.md?page=17)