# Why have drugs not destroyed society? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 6, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767 "2010-09-06T05:12:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/1 "2010-09-06T05:12:18Z")
If you took a reasonably intelligent layperson who had no knowledge of the existence of narcotics and told them that there was a substance that was chemically designed to target the evolutionarily built in pleasure centers of the brain and that ingesting this substance would cause a strong dependency and that repeated use of this substance would significantly impair mental & physical function and what’s more, these substances are relatively easy to manufacture, I bet they would predict the total downfall of society within a couple of months. Why is it that you think drugs have not destroyed society? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/2 "2010-09-06T05:28:58Z")
Alcohol, narcotics, and other mind altering substances have been available to human beings since before civilization, and, as a consequence, have made social adaptations to avoid such a thing happening. The Aztecs, as an example, only allowed certain classes of people to consume alcohol and made it a capital offense for certain other classes to be drunk. In western societies we have tried to limit how much people drink and where it is acceptable to be drunk for thousands of years. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/3 "2010-09-06T05:35:53Z")
Most people are reasonably rational. They’re aware of the risks of certain drugs (cocaine, heroin, etc.) and don’t try them. Most people stick to drugs that are not actually all that risky. Of course, some people get addicted more easily than others, so even on the light stuff some percentage will get hooked and (potentially) seek stronger stuff, but they are the outliers. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/4 "2010-09-06T06:10:05Z")
They did, we are just too buzzed to notice. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/5 "2010-09-06T06:24:19Z")
Consider all the things people do to each other that could be considered barbaric and horrible and which don’t involve drugs in any significant way. If those things don’t destroy society I don’t see how drugs would have a chance. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/6 "2010-09-06T06:34:29Z")
I’m not at all sure that lolcatz doesn’t involve drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/7 "2010-09-06T06:42:41Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Why is it that you think drugs have not destroyed society? Because it’s logical and beneficial to avoid harmful behavior. Just say no to heroin, sticking one’s tongue in a blender, sitting on pointy sticks. It’s a long list but there’s a theme in it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/8 "2010-09-06T06:42:56Z")
Because most people have been convinced that drugs are BAD, and God hates druggies, and that work is GOOD, and God loves productive workers. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/9 "2010-09-06T06:47:31Z")
I imagine the answer is that human society evolved hand in hand with the various intoxicants available during our history, so using them is more the norm than not using them. I remember reading somewhere that British soldiers during the Napoleonic Wars joined up partly just to get their rum allotments. And, of course, most of the intoxicants don’t exactly inhibit procreation, so from that perspective it’s not exactly going to doom society or the human race either. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/10 "2010-09-06T06:50:36Z")
You can rest assured that while drugs may not have completely destroyed society, they have destroyed or ruined millions of lives in this country and have been and are responsible for a great deal of the crime that exists today. The negative social and economic impact that drugs have had upon this country is immeasurable, and the damage would undoubtedly be much greater if not for the fact that these people’s ruined lives, and the depths to which drugs can compel people to sink, serve as horrific examples of the dangers of drugs and how important it is to avoid them. Watch the t.v. show _Intervention_ sometime and observe how deeply addicted these people can be, the lifestyles they lead and the impact their lives have had upon their family and loved ones. Then multiply that by millions, especially over the last forty years or so, and you can begin to get an idea of the consequences of drugs upon this country. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/11 "2010-09-06T11:06:02Z")
I’m pleasantly surprised nobody has yet claimed that the only reason society isn’t destroyed yet is because of the “War On Drugs”. There may be hope for us. Most people are reasonably aware of the risks of narcotics and alcohol. Dependency and incapacitating effects of drugs also vary wildly, so while some drugs (heroin, for example) are really quite dangerous, others can be enjoyed (and in fact _are_ being enjoyed) occasionally by many people without any long-term effects. For example, AFAIK the number of heroin addicts has been dropping for decades over here in the Netherlands, mostly because people are now much more aware of the effects and they just don’t start. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/12 "2010-09-06T11:14:15Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > I’m pleasantly surprised nobody has yet claimed that the only reason society isn’t destroyed yet is because of the “War On Drugs”. There may be hope for us. That’s funny. The War On Drugs has done more harm to society than the drugs themselves ever did… ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/13 "2010-09-06T11:19:43Z")
> [@SmartAlecCat](#): > > > [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > > > I’m pleasantly surprised nobody has yet claimed that the only reason society isn’t destroyed yet is because of the “War On Drugs”. There may be hope for us. > > That’s funny. The War On Drugs has done more harm to society than the drugs themselves ever did… I’m not disagreeing. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/14 "2010-09-06T12:39:46Z")
Most of the harm of drug abuse results from the illegal status of drugs, not from the drugs themselves. In particular, consider the billions of dollars that end up in the hands of Mexican drug cartels, enabling them to fight an open war with the Mexican government. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/15 "2010-09-06T15:05:47Z")
In a world where bills must be paid and children fed, people who do drugs have certain pressures to behave. Not even the biggest pot head, who’s otherwise got his act together, would typically sit on the couch all day and smoke. Because at the very least, drugs cost money. You have to work to get that money, be a mooch, or become a criminal. Most people would choose the first because we’ve been engrained to believe that’s the most respectable route. If you’re got some sense about you, you will not go down to the depths where you drop all care about societal conventions. There are places in this country where drug/alcohol abuse has torn the community apart. But I’d argue those places were writhe with poverty to begin with, and poverty begets all sorts of desperate behaviors. Adding drugs to the mix just worsens pre-existing problems. Also, the number of people with addictive personalities are small. Put a randomly selected group of naive people and put them in a casino. Most of them will play the slots and the tables after an hour or so, if that, and then get bored and leave. A few will stick around and play for a few hours, realize they have no more money, and then leave. And then there’s the small few who won’t leave, even when staying means pulling out money from ATMs or using credit cards. If most of us were like that last group, then yeah, society would break down. But fortunately most of us aren’t like that. People like that usually have some type of brain disturbance–a malfunction of their dopaminergic systems. **Starving Artist** mentioned that show _Intervention_ as evidence of people who destroy themselves from drug abuse. But those people are usually enabled by loved ones who AREN’T junkies. On an individual level, those people are probably doing more harm than good. However, on a societal level, they are doing the rest of us a favor. Because a junkie who has a bed to sleep in, food to eat, and money to spend on his habit will be one less junkie out there to mug you or break into your car. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/16 "2010-09-06T17:09:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > In a world where bills must be paid and children fed, people who do drugs have certain pressures to behave. Not even the biggest pot head, who’s otherwise got his act together, would typically sit on the couch all day and smoke. Because at the very least, drugs cost money. You have to work to get that money, be a mooch, or become a criminal. Most people would choose the first because we’ve been engrained to believe that’s the most respectable route. If you’re got some sense about you, you will not go down to the depths where you drop all care about societal conventions. > > There are places in this country where drug/alcohol abuse has torn the community apart. But I’d argue those places were writhe with poverty to begin with, and poverty begets all sorts of desperate behaviors. Adding drugs to the mix just worsens pre-existing problems. > > Also, the number of people with addictive personalities are small. Put a randomly selected group of naive people and put them in a casino. Most of them will play the slots and the tables after an hour or so, if that, and then get bored and leave. A few will stick around and play for a few hours, realize they have no more money, and then leave. And then there’s the small few who won’t leave, even when staying means pulling out money from ATMs or using credit cards. If most of us were like that last group, then yeah, society would break down. But fortunately most of us aren’t like that. People like that usually have some type of brain disturbance–a malfunction of their dopaminergic systems. > > **Starving Artist** mentioned that show _Intervention_ as evidence of people who destroy themselves from drug abuse. But those people are usually enabled by loved ones who AREN’T junkies. On an individual level, those people are probably doing more harm than good. However, on a societal level, they are doing the rest of us a favor. Because a junkie who has a bed to sleep in, food to eat, and money to spend on his habit will be one less junkie out there to mug you or break into your car. My response to this would be, why did society ever get to be like it is given that we discovered psychoactive drugs and learned how to produce alcohol thousands of years ago? We could have developed into a bunch of mushroom and hops growers – though I suppose we would have eventually got eaten by wolves or somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/17 "2010-09-06T17:24:49Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > If you took a reasonably intelligent layperson who had no knowledge of the existence of narcotics and told them that there was a substance that was chemically designed to target the evolutionarily built in pleasure centers of the brain and that ingesting this substance would cause a strong dependency and that repeated use of this substance would significantly impair mental & physical function and what’s more, these substances are relatively easy to manufacture, I bet they would predict the total downfall of society within a couple of months. > > Why is it that you think drugs have not destroyed society? I must not be the only one who decided that impaired mental & physical function was not worth the risk of trying it. I’ve been proud of my mental function since I was in first grade. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/18 "2010-09-06T19:49:48Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > > [@Shalmanese](#): > > > > If you took a reasonably intelligent layperson who had no knowledge of the existence of narcotics and told them that there was a substance that was chemically designed to target the evolutionarily built in pleasure centers of the brain and that ingesting this substance would cause a strong dependency and that repeated use of this substance would significantly impair mental & physical function and what’s more, these substances are relatively easy to manufacture, I bet they would predict the total downfall of society within a couple of months. > > > > Why is it that you think drugs have not destroyed society? > > I must not be the only one who decided that impaired mental & physical function was not worth the risk of trying it. I’ve been proud of my mental function since I was in first grade. I can tell you from experience that you and they would be wrong. 😛 You don’t drink any alcohol even? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/19 "2010-09-06T20:20:36Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > My response to this would be, why did society ever get to be like it is given that we discovered psychoactive drugs and learned how to produce alcohol thousands of years ago? We could have developed into a bunch of mushroom and hops growers – though I suppose we would have eventually got eaten by wolves or somesuch. I think you’ve answered your own question, in a way. If we all became lushes, then the commercial machinary that would push out shrooms and hops would cease to operate and we would stop being lushes. For long-term, widsespread drug use to take hold in a society, you only have to have a sizable segment of the population that can do so while still being able to function. I think most of us can partake in addictive substances moderately, because we are self-aware enough to know our limits. Our bodies help us by making us feel sick when we go over the edge. Some people are able to override natural defenses and then become seriously addicted. But those people are not “most of us”. Just think about food. Some people eat too much, based on their waist lines, but they are clearly functional. Most of them are probably just as healthy as the “skinny” people. It’s only a very small portion of the population who go to the extreme and essentially become non-productive half-ton people. These people have mental illnesses, glandular problems, or whathaveyou…most of us simply aren’t this way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767/20 "2010-09-06T20:36:52Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Most of the harm of drug abuse results from the illegal status of drugs, not from the drugs themselves. In particular, consider the billions of dollars that end up in the hands of Mexican drug cartels, enabling them to fight an open war with the Mexican government. Better there than in the US, right. As usual, the US arranges for others to pay the price covering the human costs of their consumption. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-drugs-not-destroyed-society/552767.md?page=2)