# Why have Republicans forgotten the "unitary executive theory"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266 "2014-11-21T16:47:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/21 "2014-11-21T19:01:39Z")
**Bricker** , have you considered running for office on a platform of decrying liberal hypocrisy? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/22 "2014-11-21T19:03:55Z")
Robert Bork was without precedent. After Nixon’s Attorney General and the next guy in line both resigned rather than fire Archibald Cox, Bork became acting Attorney General and fired Cox, as a good lapdog is supposed to do. For this, Nixon promised him the next Supreme Court seat. The firing was later found to be illegal. Bork supported the ability of southern states to impose a poll tax and argued against antitrust laws on the grounds that they hurt consumers. If Ted Kennedy had no other legacy than to block Bork, his place as a great and good man in history is assured. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/23 "2014-11-21T19:09:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Robert Bork was without precedent. After Nixon’s Attorney General and the next guy in line both resigned rather than fire Archibald Cox, Bork became acting Attorney General and fired Cox, as a good lapdog is supposed to do. For this, Nixon promised him the next Supreme Court seat. The firing was later found to be illegal. Bork supported the ability of southern states to impose a poll tax and argued against antitrust laws on the grounds that they hurt consumers. If Ted Kennedy had no other legacy than to block Bork, his place as a great and good man in history is assured. Bingo. Bork was a nasty piece of work. The refusal to confirm him in the 1980s was not justification for the policy of setting filibuster records 20 years later. Neither was Hayensworth. Some nominees for various levels of the federal bench are simply not qualified. That doesn’t mean that all aren’t. Personally I think that the Republican level of cooperation in our government with their counterparts speaks for itself. ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/24 "2014-11-21T19:14:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > On the contrary, the Democrats have been responsible for the onset of each of those tactics, and are then subsequently outraged when the tactics are used against them. Robert Bork’s nomination was sidelined by threats of filibusters, an action essentially without precedent. > > But let me guess – Bork was a dangerous nominee, and it was RIGHT to do that to him. Wrong to do it to Obama’s good and decent servants of the public, though. > > Is that close? Robert Bork was ONE nominee and his nomination was TWENTY-SEVEN years ago. Pubs, as a matter of routine, have filibustered EVERY Obama nominee to the point where the senate had to change the rules just to get routine posts filled. The fact that pubs bring up Bork after so long shows just how incredibly petty, emotional, and child-like you guys view the world. And this is why Obama has to move without you. You’re too busy crying over times you didn’t get your way to focus on what’s needed NOW. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/25 "2014-11-21T19:17:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Fascinating. > > I direct your attention again to Obama’s words from 2008: > > I have emphasized the portion of Obama’s speech which I believe undercuts your claim about Obama being right. No, it proves that he’s a politician who makes promises on the campaign trail that he can’t keep. Find me a politician who **doesn’t** do that, and we’ll have something to discuss. It has no bearing on my point. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/26 "2014-11-21T19:19:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Because there’s a black guy in the White House. To be fair, they’ll be equally freaked out by a white woman. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > The ones in Congress know that if they were to cooperate with a black president they’d never win another nomination for their job. They may not be racists personally, but if they break the code of shunning the black guy they’d be out in the street after the next primary. Since we’re in GD and Tuba stated yesterday: > [@](#): > > Debate is a time-honored thing. I mean real debate, not slapping other people with half-truths or outright lies or stuff you pull out of your a–. I mean your assumptions. I’d like to think we hold people to a higher standard, that you go into the forum ready to discuss and even argue ideas and beliefs with a sincere desire to really tackle these issues and not just jerk other people around with low-rate junk. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17916767&postcount=27](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17916767&postcount=27) I’d like to see some cites for these posts. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/27 "2014-11-21T19:27:49Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I’d like to see some cites for these posts. It would probably derail the thread to get too deep in the weeds about the racial component of Republican obstructionism, but in a nutshell: There has been exactly one black president. There has been exactly one time in history that the opposition party met on Inauguration Day to vow to obstruct an incoming president on every single thing he tried to accomplish. That opposition party has as its base the white racist vote. If you think racism has no part in Republican obstructionism, I think you’re fooling yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/28 "2014-11-21T19:42:39Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > No, it proves that he’s a politician who makes promises on the campaign trail that he can’t keep. Find me a politician who **doesn’t** do that, and we’ll have something to discuss. It has no bearing on my point. You said, “However, it’s quite possible to believe that Bush was wrong and Obama right without hypocrisy.” When you said Obama was right, I showed you a specific statement on the specific issue that turned out to be wrong. What did you mean, then, when you said “Obama was right?” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/29 "2014-11-21T19:44:13Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It would probably derail the thread to get too deep in the weeds about the racial component of Republican obstructionism, but in a nutshell: There has been exactly one black president. There has been exactly one time in history that the opposition party met on Inauguration Day to vow to obstruct an incoming president on every single thing he tried to accomplish. That opposition party has as its base the white racist vote. If you think racism has no part in Republican obstructionism, I think you’re fooling yourself. That’s not a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/30 "2014-11-21T19:48:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You said, “However, it’s quite possible to believe that Bush was wrong and Obama right without hypocrisy.” > > When you said Obama was right, I showed you a specific statement on the specific issue that turned out to be wrong. > > What did you mean, then, when you said “Obama was right?” Sorry for the unclear language. I meant “morally and/or ethically right.” I probably would have been better off saying “justified.” And I was referring to his executive actions in office, not to his decrying of executive actions on the campaign trail. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/31 "2014-11-21T20:22:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How did you feel about Bush’s actions? > > I agree that Obama has the legitimate power, absent Congressional limiting legislation, to do what he’s doing. And I agreed that Bush did, too. > > So I have a sense of consistency. > > How about you? For the record I disliked Bush’s use of the unitary executive since it seemed as though Bush was basically taking laws negotiated through a relatively bipartisan Congress and unilaterally changing it. I am also very uneasy about what Obama is doing, although in this case I am perhaps a little more understanding. The Republicans of the current congress have basically decided that they are unwilling to consider any legislation that might pass, for fear that the successful passage of any significant legislation will give Obama a “victory” which given their zeros sum game view of governance would mean a loss for them. Therefor they refuse to fulfill the role assigned to them by the constitution. If they are unable to perform their roll than the Executive needs to pick up the slack. Note: that this wasn’t his first choice for resolving this situation. It was only after months of trying to get any form of immigration bill onto the floor that he resorted to this. Heck even the[Boehner admitted](http://www.politicususa.com/2014/07/31/republicans-destruct-boehner-forced-pull-border-bill-pass.html)that they can’t get their act together and Obama needed to take unitary action along the Border. If Congress put up a Bill (even one I didn’t agree with) and Obama took these actions then I would be very upset at him. So in a nutshell: I am wary of an executive that attempts to supersede actions actions of Congress that they don’t like. However I recognize that if Congress abdicates its role then it may be necessary for the executive to reluctantly step in to fill the power vacuum. Finally if your claim was the Democratic politicians are likely to be equally short sighted and hypocritical when it comes to advocating positions that support them politically then you have no argument from me. One look at Maryland’s districting is enough to convince me that both parties will seek an advantage when it becomes available. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/32 "2014-11-21T21:31:44Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Sorry for the unclear language. > > I meant “morally and/or ethically right.” I probably would have been better off saying “justified.” > > And I was referring to his executive actions in office, not to his decrying of executive actions on the campaign trail. Sure…but then this boils down to saying that you support the _ends_ of Obama’s actions and were not in favor of the ends sought by Bush. No shit. The question framed in the OP, in contrast, seems to focus on the means being used. If you approve of the President’s use of such power only when he’s a Democrat, or only when he’s doing something you like, you don’t really create a workable rule. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/33 "2014-11-21T21:39:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure…but then this boils down to saying that you support the _ends_ of Obama’s actions and were not in favor of the ends sought by Bush. No, it doesn’t. I will restate simply: _Setting a questionable or harmful precedent is more morally and ethically suspect than following such precedent once set by ones opposition._ Under that principle, it is reasonable _on the surface_ to criticize Bush for his claim to Unitary Executive power while still holding Obama essentially blameless. Any given Obama supporter/Bush critic may be operating more on partisanship than on principle, but the position they argue pays at least lip service to rationality. Can you think of any guiding principle (other than “Conservative principles are better than Liberal ones” or “black people suck”) that could on even the most shallow analysis justify criticizing Obama and praising Bush for fundamentally the same exercise of power? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/34 "2014-11-21T21:56:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It would probably derail the thread to get too deep in the weeds about the racial component of Republican obstructionism, but in a nutshell: There has been exactly one black president. There has been exactly one time in history that the opposition party met on Inauguration Day to vow to obstruct an incoming president on every single thing he tried to accomplish. That opposition party has as its base the white racist vote. If you think racism has no part in Republican obstructionism, I think you’re fooling yourself. This is not a cite. This post is just your biased opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/35 "2014-11-21T22:08:15Z")
Why have Republicans forgotten the “unitary executive theory”? For the same reason the Democrats will forget if/when a Republican is in the white house: it’s being used by the other team. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/36 "2014-11-21T22:59:09Z")
> [@SDarbo](#): > > . . . Whenever anyone wants more powers you should remember that its likely someone you find to be evil, incompetent, or demented will eventually be President and the powers held by more benign presidents will be precedents. Absolutely this! This is, for instance, why I don’t want to eliminate the Filibuster: I want my side to be able to use it! ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/37 "2014-11-21T23:11:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It would probably derail the thread… Then maybe you should stop posting the exact same garbage in every thread about Obama or the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/38 "2014-11-21T23:15:16Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It would probably derail the thread to get too deep in the weeds about the racial component of Republican obstructionism, but in a nutshell: There has been exactly one black president. There has been exactly one time in history that the opposition party met on Inauguration Day to vow to obstruct an incoming president on every single thing he tried to accomplish. That opposition party has as its base the white racist vote. If you think racism has no part in Republican obstructionism, I think you’re fooling yourself. post hoc ergo propter hoc ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/39 "2014-11-22T00:30:15Z")
In it’s strongest form, the unitary executive theory simply states that the president has sole authority over the executive branch. (Given the advise and consent clause, this fails on the face of it.) But, in what sense does “immigration policy” rate as something that that is solely an executive branch function? In short, not seeing how the UET applies here. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266/40 "2014-11-22T00:47:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Remember the W years? Not all that long ago? When Republicans were arguing for maximum scope of presidential autonomy from Congress, maximum powers, maximum freedom of action, even to the point of attaching an unprecedented number of “signing statements” to bills, all based on the strong version of the [unitary executive theory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_executive_theory)? > > Shouldn’t Pubs now be arguing that Obama has that same scope of autonomy/powers/freedom? Instead of, say, calling him a dictator and a tyrant for issuing the exact same kind of executive order limiting deportation of immigrations that Reagan and GHWB issued? Yes, the Republicans should be championing an endless power-grab by Obama. They allowed Bush to do it and are now hypocrites for pretending that Obama is any worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-forgotten-the-unitary-executive-theory/705266.md?page=3)