# Why have Republicans shifted so far to the right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040 "2010-03-27T19:12:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/61 "2010-03-29T00:43:52Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > My, if you think that your head would probably explode if actual liberals got into power. Can you give me some examples of what ‘actual liberals’ would do that Obama hasn’t said he wanted to do? So far, he’s advocating a vast expansion of union power, cap and trade, he wants to ‘re-regulate’ industry, he just got a national healthcare plan passed, he’s giving 5 billion dollars to ‘community organizers’, he’s trying to close down Gitmo and move terrorists into the civilian courts, he supports an expansion of power for various federal regulatory agencies, and he wants to make the tax system more progressive. So what else would a ‘real liberal’ want to do? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/62 "2010-03-29T01:02:36Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > You know, they are the ones who helped pass the UHC bill. Yes there are some radical nuts who are dissatisfied because he’s not withdrawing from Afghanistan, humiliate America even more by apologizing to everyone in the world, does not federally fund abortions nor utterly socialize the health care system like Britain but they’re what they are: nuts. There is no UHC bill. As to the rest, you really need to stop getting your information from Glenn Beck. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/63 "2010-03-29T01:04:22Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > You know, they are the ones who helped pass the UHC bill. Yes there are some radical nuts who are dissatisfied because he’s not withdrawing from Afghanistan, humiliate America even more by apologizing to everyone in the world, does not federally fund abortions nor utterly socialize the health care system like Britain but they’re what they are: nuts. So the British are nuts now? And yes a real liberal would federally fund abortions instead of caving in to the woman haters. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Can you give me some examples of what ‘actual liberals’ would do that Obama hasn’t said he wanted to do? > > So far, he’s advocating a vast expansion of union power, cap and trade, he wants to ‘re-regulate’ industry, he just got a national healthcare plan passed, he’s giving 5 billion dollars to ‘community organizers’, he’s trying to close down Gitmo and move terrorists into the civilian courts, he supports an expansion of power for various federal regulatory agencies, and he wants to make the tax system more progressive. > > So what else would a ‘real liberal’ want to do? Those are all exaggerations at best. For that matter, How is, say, cap and trade even liberal? How about actually holding Bush and his friends responsible for the torture they have committed and the lies they told? The Republicans sure didn’t hesitate to impeach Clinton over far less. How about cracking down on the behavior of the wealthy scum who are responsible for the present economic mess? How about repealing DOMA and don’t-ask-don’t-tell, instead of inviting a gay basher to his own inauguration? How about having the violence and threats of the thuggish aspects of the Right cracked down on the way it would be if brown skinned or non-Christian or left wing people were acting that way? How about not pushing for a health care “reform” that is basically an old Republican proposal? How about standing up to the demands of the Republicans in general instead of rolling over and waving his paws at them like a puppy most of the time? He’s no liberal; he’s a moderate corporatist and a spineless coward, just like almost all of the Democrats. The liberals barely exist in this country. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/64 "2010-03-29T01:05:19Z")
> [@Milossarian](#): > > Ah, I forgot Rule 1: > > In the face of uncomfortable facts, attack the source. If the source is questionable, why not?? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/65 "2010-03-29T01:07:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no UHC bill. > > As to the rest, you really need to stop getting your information from Glenn Beck. I’m not a Tea Partiers. I’m a moderate conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/66 "2010-03-29T01:11:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Can you give me some examples of what ‘actual liberals’ would do that Obama hasn’t said he wanted to do? Leave Iraq immediately, push for single payer health care, support gay marriage, support legalization of marijuana, push for a reversal of DADT much faster. > [@](#): > > So far, he’s advocating a vast expansion of union power What the fuck is “union power?” Powrer to do what? > [@](#): > > cap and trade Cap and trade is a Republican idea. > [@](#): > > he wants to ‘re-regulate’ industry What does this mean, and how is it liberal? > [@](#): > > he just got a national healthcare plan passed A Republican version without the most important things liberals wanted. > [@](#): > > he’s giving 5 billion dollars to ‘community organizers’ What does this refer to, and how is it liberal? , > [@](#): > > he’s trying to close down Gitmo A philosophivcally conservative thing to do. > [@](#): > > and move terrorists into the civilian courts Cite that they’re “terrorists,” and how is following the Constitution liberal? > [@](#): > > he supports an expansion of power for various federal regulatory agencies Cite? > [@](#): > > and he wants to make the tax system more progressive. False. > [@](#): > > So what else would a ‘real liberal’ want to do? Already listed. Obama is opertating pretty well center-right. There is no major liberalparty in the US. We have a right wing conservative party and a moderate conservative party. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/67 "2010-03-29T01:12:38Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > humiliate America even more by apologizing to everyone in the world Please provide specific examples of Obama apologies which were inappropriate and/or inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/68 "2010-03-29T01:24:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Leave Iraq immediately, push for single payer health care, support gay marriage, support legalization of marijuana, push for a reversal of DADT much faster. Prosecute the last Admin’s war crimes, hang a few banksters and leave their corpses out for the crows, tax the people who wanted to conquer Iraq until the war is payed for, and then tax em some more so they never reattain the power needed to do something that stupid and destructive to _my_ country again. Pretty centrist stuff really, based on real American values. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/69 "2010-03-29T02:04:56Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I’m not a Tea Partiers. I’m a moderate conservative. No, you’re not, **Curtis.** ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/70 "2010-03-29T02:09:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, you’re not, **Curtis.** Actually, given the Republican Party’s shift to the right over the last 40 years, he might be. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/71 "2010-03-29T02:52:36Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I’m not a Tea Partiers. I’m a moderate conservative. This, I think, sums up how the Republican Party shifted so far to the right. Very few people in the GOP feel that they are anything but a moderate even as the “middle ground” is farther and farther from them. Instead they all continue to feel that they are the average American. Part of it is Fox News’s fault. Not all their viewers are dumb enough to fall for all of their rhetoric, but instead they fall into the middle ground fallacy. Since they assume both Obama and Beck are exagerating when they talk they believe the truth is in the middle, not noticing that Beck is insane. They point to those who swallow Beck’s crap hook, line, and sinker as the fringe. It doesn’t matter that their own position is far to the right of the rest of the country, there is someone crazier then them out there so they must be moderate. In comparison the Left is well aware of who their fringe is and the people on the fringe know it too. If I may use an example from this board, while you see **Der Trihs** lament about Obama that: > [@](#): > > He’s no liberal; he’s a moderate corporatist and a spineless coward, just like almost all of the Democrats. The liberals barely exist in this country. You _won’t_ see\*\* Der Trihs\*\* claim to be a moderate in regard to United States politics. But you will _never_ see a conservative claim to be far right. Ever. So the Republicans end up drifting farther and farther from center since they don’t have to actually be anything close to moderate to believe themselves the average American. They just have to be not as crazy as the next guy. Of course the next guy is busy sobbing as he finds hidden meanings in a painting proving that Rockafeller was really a communist, but that doesn’t matter to them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/72 "2010-03-29T03:12:03Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > humiliate America even more by apologizing to everyone in the world, If your country’s reputation abroad is so important to you, what are you complaining about? People like Obama quite a lot. If your country’s reputation abroad is so important to you, why do you support Republican policies that make everyone hate you? We generally think it’s great that you have a grownup in charge instead of President Flightsuit and his Grand Vizier, Dick “torturing scumbag” Cheney. The policies and demeanor that humiliate you (not “America”, you) are exactly the ones that have improved the reputation of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/73 "2010-03-29T03:15:56Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > This seems to have gone down the memory hole, but the new health care law’s individual mandate used to be a [Republican idea](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_overhaul_requiring_insurance), the free market alternative to the Democratic “single payer” proposals. > > If Richard Nixon, the anti-communist crusader, showed up at a modern day Republican gathering proposing the same thing today that he did in the 1970s, he would be booed off the stage and called a socialist! > > What’s happened to the Republican party in recent years that has caused it to shift so notably to the right? It’s 2010, we learned from experience that wage and price controls were a massive failure. The idea that a Republican suggested it in the 70’s does not make it a good idea today. The economic climate of the 70’s that drove the concept of HMO’s (versus catastrophic insurance) was one of big industry with little world competition. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/74 "2010-03-29T04:08:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s 2010, we learned from experience that wage and price controls were a massive failure. The idea that a Republican suggested it in the 70’s does not make it a good idea today… So we’ll be seeing hard support from the pubbies for tough regulation of the out of control banking industry? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/75 "2010-03-29T04:21:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > … the John Birchers, whom even Goldwater regarded as kooks. … > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > … A measure of how much the conservative movement has changed, at CPAC (conservative convention) this year … it ([CPAC | 2010](http://www.cpac.org/sponsors.html)) was cosponsored by kooks, [The John Birch Society](http://www.jbs.org/press-room/5768-the-john-birch-society-announces-cpac-2010-cosponsorship). But I’m sure that’s evidence that the John Birch Society has moved to the left, not something else. :dubious: CMC fnord! Damn, now I got the [talkin’ John Birch paranoid blues](http://www.bobdylan.com/#/songs/talkin-john-birch-paranoid-blues) again. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/76 "2010-03-29T04:57:48Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s 2010, we learned from experience that wage and price controls were a massive failure. The idea that a Republican suggested it in the 70’s does not make it a good idea today. Does the fact that the Republican Party suggested it in the 90s as their alternative to Hilarycare make it a good idea? > [@](#): > > So far, he’s advocating a vast expansion of union power, cap and trade, he wants to ‘re-regulate’ industry, he just got a national healthcare plan passed, he’s giving 5 billion dollars to ‘community organizers’, he’s trying to close down Gitmo and move terrorists into the civilian courts, he supports an expansion of power for various federal regulatory agencies, and he wants to make the tax system more progressive. He did indeed pass a national healthcare plan, just like [the Republicans offered](http://gopleader.gov/UploadedFiles/Summary_of_Republican_Alternative_Health_Care_plan_Updated_11-04-09.pdf) (minus a few specifics, of course). Republicans gave [a hell of a lot more](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Office_of_Faith-Based_and_Community_Initiatives) than $5 billion to ‘community organizers’ quite recently. He’s trying to close down a federal facility and allow the states to house some prisoners - sounds like a conservative move, if anything. What various federal regulatory agencies is he trying to empower that McCain did not also promise to empower? My God, Obama is not _only_ a true liberal, he’s also a Republican! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/77 "2010-03-29T06:20:35Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > So we’ll be seeing hard support from the pubbies for tough regulation of the out of control banking industry? 😉 You expect much from a Secretary of the Treasury who has personal tax issues and makes secret stock purchases (of Goldman Sachs) against the policy of the Federal Reserve. But hey, it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/78 "2010-03-29T08:11:12Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > The solution for today’s wingnuts is to lie to the masses in whatever way will keep them scared and divided, preferably while making them _think_ they’re defending traditional social structures. This. It seems to me some Dopers here are putting the cart before the horse. The Tea Party or Religious Right don’t have some magical control over the fate of the Republican Party. The GOP could marginalize them and still win elections. It doesn’t because doing so would force it to moderate the goal of dismantling the New Deal. Why have the Republicans shifted so far to the right? Because they can. Back in the 60s and 70s there were plenty of voters who still remembered what life was like under limited government before FDR. Apparently it wasn’t the libertarian fantasy wonderland because in order to remain politically viable the GOP had to lurch to the left in the wake of the Great Depression. As time passes it tries to return to the “Good Old Days”. Since this goal is unpopular they can’t win on policy and are tied to the Know Nothing phenomenon to broaden their appeal. It’s easy to predict where the Republicans will come down on any issue which promotes the wealth and power of the elite. They will support it as strongly as they can get away with and still win elections. Liberals like to believe that Republicans are doomed in the long run because demographics are against them. But the GOP is merely exploiting the current political paradigm. When times change they change with them… publicly at least. The goal will remain the same. And given all the damage they have managed to inflict upon the economy, things could take a radical turn. There are no comfortable inevitabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/79 "2010-03-29T09:35:14Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > It seems to me some Dopers here are putting the cart before the horse. The Tea Party or Religious Right don’t have some magical control over the fate of the Republican Party. The GOP could marginalize them and still win elections. I don’t think so, they’ve alienated too many other people; such as all the socially conservative minorities who aren’t interesting in voting for what amounts to the White Racist Party. Even more importantly, the "magical power " the extremists have over the party is that to a large degree, they ARE the party. I think you are describing how the party used to be; not how it is now. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040/80 "2010-03-29T11:22:12Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You’re confusing me, because that poll doesn’t contradict a single thing I said. > > In terms of Demographics, the Tea Party is only slightly more religious than the population average, is only 68% protestant, and 9% of them admit to being non-religious. Again according to that poll, the average Tea Partier is more educated than the public at large, and the percentage that come from the south is _less_ than the demographic average for the population at large. 57% of the tea party members are from the midwest or the west, while only 45% of the overall population is located there. > > The average age in the Tea Parties is also lower than the average age for the entire population, whereas the Christian Right movement was always part of an older demographic. > > Again: This is not a picture of the old southern bible-belt populist conservative party of George Bush, Trent Lott, Mike Huckabee, and the other old warhorses in bed with the Christian Right. It’s just not. > > Let me guess - you didn’t actually bother to read the poll itself, did you? Wasn’t Sarah Palin (a staunch member of the religious right) the key note speaker at their recent rally in Nevada? Didn’t McCain pick her for VP because she would attract the RR? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-republicans-shifted-so-far-to-the-right/534040.md?page=5)