# Why have several B list superheroes gotten movies, but Wonder Woman is ignored? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234 "2010-10-06T11:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/41 "2010-10-06T18:05:25Z")
Don’t dis Cap! You know all the stuff we like to believe about ourselves? Truth, Liberty, Equality and that patriotic rah-rah, huddled masses yearning to breathe free? Captain America believes all that. He lives all that. He is deeply ashamed of himself and all his countrymen when we fall short of our ideals, and he inspires us all to try harder. I do not believe a Captain America movie can be made today, as we have become too cynical and distrustful of anyone who actually wants America to be an example for the world. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/42 "2010-10-06T18:06:08Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > What other female superheroines are there we could make a movie about? Arguable X-Men 3 could have been an ensemble dark horse for Jean Greay, if Wolverine’s crotch hadn’t obscured everyone’s view (and I do _not_ mean that in a complimentary way). _Runaways_ and _Exiles_ are two teams I can think of which have good female characters, but of those only _Runaways_ is really movie material. > [@Anaamika](#): > > You know what would be an awesome movie? Mass Effect, with Shephard as a woman. Now that is a tough woman who if you run her Paragon, can still be utterly feminine. Extrapolate that into a superheroine. I’d watch it. _Everyone_ prefers FemShep to… whatever people call guy Shepard. > [@Anaamika](#): > > And I don’t see how a Captain America wouldn’t bomb, to be honest. The very name “Captain America” sets my teeth on edge and I am American. We’re not exactly super popular in the world arena, and CA sounds like someone that would go around kicking brown ass because he can. He sounds, in point of fact, like a sanctimonious jerk. If he was a new superhero starting out in the 21st century, sure. But he’s literally a man from another time, when the USA was the reinforcements coming in to kick Hitler’s ass, not some loser dropping bombs on third world countries. Once he wakes up in the modern day, _then_ you can show that the USA of today isn’t the USA of 65-70 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/43 "2010-10-06T18:12:00Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Don’t dis Cap! > > You know all the stuff we like to believe about ourselves? Truth, Liberty, Equality and that patriotic rah-rah, huddled masses yearning to breathe free? > > Captain America believes all that. He lives all that. He is deeply ashamed of himself and all his countrymen when we fall short of our ideals, and he inspires us all to try harder. > > I do not believe a Captain America movie can be made today, as we have become too cynical and distrustful of anyone who actually wants America to be an example for the world. The problem is that all this was true and happened in the comic 40 years ago. Cap has spent four decades as a ridiculous relic of a past in which the government was all good guys who could never do wrong and all enemies were the ultimate in evil. Cap never recovered from Vietnam and Nixon. Nothing anybody could do today could make him relevant. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/44 "2010-10-06T18:32:40Z")
Agreed. As much as I hated his Nomad costume, he should never had pick up the uniform again after the way he was kicked in the teeth. He needed to keep reminding us that loving your country is not the same as supporting whoever happens to be sitting in the Oval Office. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/45 "2010-10-06T18:46:55Z")
He could always fight the government. The Tea Partiers would drive it to previously unknown heights of box office success. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/46 "2010-10-06T19:01:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The problem is that all this was true and happened in the comic 40 years ago. Cap has spent four decades as a ridiculous relic of a past in which the government was all good guys who could never do wrong and all enemies were the ultimate in evil. Cap never recovered from Vietnam and Nixon. Nothing anybody could do today could make him relevant. What about casting Peter Fonda? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/47 "2010-10-06T19:15:40Z")
She should be kicking ass in Iraq with invisible pants. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/48 "2010-10-06T19:15:55Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > It’s really the responsibility of those who want a strong female character to make one up. There’s nothing intrinsic in Marston’s Wonder Woman that makes her “the one.” > > Heck, of DC characters, I would argue that Nightshade, Vixen (well, unfortunate name), Katana, & (Joe Kelly’s) Faith have as much\* intrinsic\* value as Wondy for compelling stories. They lack the name recognition, &, well, the iconic name. I love Looker too, but she’s creepy & hard to do well. And Black Canary is a victim of long-form continuity snarls at this point–which one are we doing? Faith? **Looker??** Really? Good god. I hope your nightmarish vision of the future of superhero entertainment never comes to pass. “Mary-Sue Jean Grey-Lite and Disco Hooker Vampire : They Fight Crime.” Strong Marvel Female characters : Storm. Ms. Marvel. Invisible Woman. (As not portrayed by Jessica Alba) She-Hulk. Strong DC Female characters : Power Girl. Zatanna. Catwoman. (As not portrayed by Halle Berry) Supergirl. Wonder Woman is a good choice for this kind of thing because she was iconic and though she wasn’t quite the first female superhero, she’s the oldest one that endured. But every female comics character that’s been around more than ten or twenty years has some horrible un-feminist stuff in their past, because that’s how they got written back then. That hasn’t stopped characters like Black Canary from being remolded to a more modern sensibility. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/49 "2010-10-06T19:17:00Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > These days, for a film to be a big sucess it has to appeal to a world market, not just the US; and selling a character who wears a costume derived from the American flag is a hurdle. (The Captain America movie bombed). In fact, WW’s costume is so dated that I could only see it working if they had Diana choose it to be deliberately outré. > > The lack of a standard rogue’s gallery is a big problem. I spent several minutes trying to think of who could even be a good antagonist for a WW movie, and the only one I could think of was one that they would never dare touch with a twenty-foot pole: the repressively anti-female [del]muslim[/del] traditional societies of the Third World. Wondy has a few solid rogues. Ares. Circe. Cheetah. Giganta. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/50 "2010-10-06T19:48:28Z")
There’s a ready-made [successor to Wonder Woman,](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Empowered) waiting in the wings. Well, Marston’s Wonder Woman, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/51 "2010-10-06T20:32:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So in addition to believing that female characters are not as marketable as male characters, there’s also a belief that actresses are not as marketable as actors. Angelina Jolie and Scarlett Johansenn are :dubious: at this remark. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/52 "2010-10-06T20:33:11Z")
So is my penis. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/53 "2010-10-06T20:34:16Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > > [@foolsguinea](#): > > > > …of DC characters, I would argue that Nightshade, Vixen (well, unfortunate name), Katana, & (Joe Kelly’s) Faith have as much\* intrinsic\* value as Wondy for compelling stories. They lack the name recognition, &, well, the iconic name. I love Looker too, but she’s creepy & hard to do well… > > Faith? **Looker??** Really? > > Good god. I hope your nightmarish vision of the future of superhero entertainment never comes to pass. “Mary-Sue Jean Grey-Lite and Disco Hooker Vampire : They Fight Crime.” > > Strong Marvel Female characters : Storm. Ms. Marvel. Invisible Woman. She-Hulk. > > Strong DC Female characters : Power Girl. Zatanna. Catwoman. Supergirl. I like the choices you mention. All good characters too. If Power Girl & Supergirl can get out from under Superman’s shadow, & Catwoman out from under Batman’s shadow in the marketing, they could have a shot. Zatanna’s name is too much like Satana. She won’t work commercially. The Marvel ladies you mentioned are workable. Note that I didn’t just go for the big names, I mentioned concepts I like. Who knew\* Men in Black\* was a comic book? And I named some that I think have as much potential as Wonder Woman (low threshold there). So you can take it as bad I think Wondy really is conceptually. And I \*said \*Looker was creepy & hard to do well. She is. Hard does not mean impossible; it would just take a very specific enthusiasm for & approach to the work. Further, she wasn’t always a vampire & she was never a hooker. As for dissing Faith, whatever. Having as little source material as she does can be an advantage–less baggage. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/54 "2010-10-06T20:35:35Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > > [@Lumpy](#): > > > > These days, for a film to be a big sucess it has to appeal to a world market, not just the US; and selling a character who wears a costume derived from the American flag is a hurdle. (The Captain America movie bombed). In fact, WW’s costume is so dated that I could only see it working if they had Diana choose it to be deliberately outré. > > > > The lack of a standard rogue’s gallery is a big problem. I spent several minutes trying to think of who could even be a good antagonist for a WW movie, and the only one I could think of was one that they would never dare touch with a twenty-foot pole: the repressively anti-female [del]muslim[/del] traditional societies of the Third World. > > Wondy has a few solid rogues. Ares. Circe. Cheetah. Giganta. Ares! Of course! What better adversary than the anthropomorphic manifestation of War itself? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/55 "2010-10-06T20:36:56Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > There’s a ready-made [successor to Wonder Woman,](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Empowered) waiting in the wings. Well, Marston’s Wonder Woman, anyway. No. Marston’s Wondy was hyper-competent. She got tied up a lot because Marston didn’t want her foes maiming her, & she got herself out it. Emp just gets tied up a lot. Her \*clothes \*are more competent than she is. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/56 "2010-10-06T20:42:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So is my penis. :: snort :: ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/57 "2010-10-06T20:59:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Here’s how much of a problem Wonder Woman is. The article about her that the OP linked to didn’t even bother to picture her in her current costume. > > Superman is always Superman. Batman is always Batman. Wonder Woman is… What does that even mean? Superman and Batman have both also had multiple costume changes over the years, and multiple origin retellings as well. Wonder Woman is not some special case. That would be like complaining about an article about Superman that didn’t picture him in his “energy Superman” phase and showing his more iconic outfit instead. And anyway, the new costume is specific to a story arc and not a permanent thing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/58 "2010-10-06T21:02:03Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > So in addition to believing that female characters are not as marketable as male characters, there’s also a belief that actresses are not as marketable as actors. > > Angelina Jolie and Scarlett Johansenn are :dubious: at this remark. Jolie and Johansenn know exactly what I’m talking about. _Salt_’s ticket sales were down around _Clash of the Titans_ and _The Expendables_. And that’s typical of Jolie’s movies: her hits have been in the $100,000,000 to 130,000,000 range - good returns but you’re not going to build an action franchise on those numbers. Johansenn was in _Iron Man 2_ but that was not her movie (she was sixth in the credits). Take _Iron Man 2_ off the table and Johansenn has never hit a hundred million in ticket sales. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/59 "2010-10-06T21:02:42Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Note that I didn’t just go for the big names, I mentioned concepts I like. Who knew\* Men in Black\* was a comic book? In real life, like many other writers, I’m an extreme introvert. At a big science fiction convention one night I went up to the SFWA suite, where the writers were hanging out. It was loud and I didn’t know anybody so I found a chair off to the side, next to another guy with the same issues. We had a great hour-long chat. He turned out to be Lowell Cunningham. And yes, this was in 1997, just after Men in Black appeared on screen. And we talked about everything but that. We writers am weird. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/60 "2010-10-06T21:22:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > _Salt_’s ticket sales were down around _Clash of the Titans_ and _The Expendables_. And that’s typical of Jolie’s movies: her hits have been in the $100,000,000 to 130,000,000 range - good returns but you’re not going to build an action franchise on those numbers. > > Johansenn was in _Iron Man 2_ but that was not her movie (she was sixth in the credits). Take _Iron Man 2_ off the table and Johansenn has never hit a hundred million in ticket sales. You’re comparing apples to really big apples, which just isn’t fair. Salt only cost $110 million, about 1/3 to 1/2 of your typical blockbuster. The fact it _only_ pulled in $120 million is what makes it a hit. As for Scarlett, she hasn’t been in movies that make a lot of money because she normally doesn’t take those roles. But she is extremely marketable (which is the argument I was replying to) as a SERIOUS ACTRESS. The argument that women can’t compete in Hollywood only works if you ignore all the movies where they prove they can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234.md?page=4)