# Why have several B list superheroes gotten movies, but Wonder Woman is ignored? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234 "2010-10-06T11:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/61 "2010-10-06T22:01:54Z")
WW has had her magazine cancelled, several times. Neither Superman nor Batman ever had that happen. She is a second-rater. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/62 "2010-10-07T01:11:49Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > > > There’s a ready-made [successor to Wonder Woman,](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Empowered) waiting in the wings. Well, Marston’s Wonder Woman, anyway. > > No. Marston’s Wondy was hyper-competent. She got tied up a lot because Marston didn’t want her foes maiming her, & she got herself out it. > > Emp just gets tied up a lot. Her \*clothes \*are more competent than she is. I didn’t say a clone of Wonder Woman. I said a successor. Empowered parodies and deconstructs the superhero mythos, in a very funny way. I suspect that would go over a lot better with modern audiences than a straight up superhero story. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/63 "2010-10-07T03:22:11Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You’re comparing apples to really big apples, which just isn’t fair. Salt only cost $110 million, about 1/3 to 1/2 of your typical blockbuster. The fact it _only_ pulled in $120 million is what makes it a hit. > > As for Scarlett, she hasn’t been in movies that make a lot of money because she normally doesn’t take those roles. But she is extremely marketable (which is the argument I was replying to) as a SERIOUS ACTRESS. > > The argument that women can’t compete in Hollywood only works if you ignore all the movies where they prove they can. Hollywood studios are very conservative. They stick with what has worked in the past. You can sell a Green Lantern or Thor movie by pointing to the success of Batman, Spiderman, Iron Man, etc. But a superhero movie based on a female character? The studios are going to look at Elektra and Catwoman and take a pass. That may not be logical - you could point out that nobody refused to make Iron Man because Daredevil and Punisher bombed. But studios want to be able to look at a past success and imagine their new movie will be as successfuly as that - so you have to be able to point to at least one existing hit that you can claim a plausible simularity to. Same thing with the actors and actresses. Most studios are going to follow the “logic” that no actress will be hired to anchor a major superhero franchise until some other actress does it successfully first. And certainly there is a market for Jolie and Johanssen movies - neither is having any problem finding work. But we’re not talking about movies in general. This thread’s about super-hero movies - a $120,000,000 budget is considered low end in this genre. Super-hero movies have to make two or three hundred million to be successful. And the studio head is going to say “Show me an Angeline Jolie movie that’s made two hundred million.” ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/64 "2010-10-07T05:56:35Z")
If one wants to make a really good DC universe film with a female lead, Gaiman’s [Death](http://cdn2.ioffer.com/img/item/157/486/367/PrR3TkvR5zBuTgU.jpg) is the way to go. Otherwise, let’s just get shitfaced and howl for the NC17 Power Girl [titstravaganza](http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/14121_4_008.jpg) . ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/65 "2010-10-07T12:08:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Same thing with the actors and actresses. Most studios are going to follow the “logic” that no actress will be hired to anchor a major superhero franchise until some other actress does it successfully first. > > And certainly there is a market for Jolie and Johanssen movies - neither is having any problem finding work. But we’re not talking about movies in general. This thread’s about super-hero movies - a $120,000,000 budget is considered low end in this genre. Super-hero movies have to make two or three hundred million to be successful. And the studio head is going to say “Show me an Angeline Jolie movie that’s made two hundred million.” But again, that’s a comparison you can’t really make. Amgelina Jolie doesn’t star in the types of movies that make $200 million. But the movies she does star in make considerably more money than similar films. But she has done one comic biook movie, Wanted, which was made for $75 million and grossed $135 million. It was so successful, the original sequel plan was… …to figure out some way to resurrect her character. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/66 "2010-10-07T13:33:17Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I like the choices you mention. All good characters too. If Power Girl & Supergirl can get out from under Superman’s shadow, & Catwoman out from under Batman’s shadow in the marketing, they could have a shot. Zatanna’s name is too much like Satana. She won’t work commercially. The Marvel ladies you mentioned are workable. > > Note that I didn’t just go for the big names, I mentioned concepts I like. Who knew\* Men in Black\* was a comic book? > > And I named some that I think have as much potential as Wonder Woman (low threshold there). So you can take it as bad I think Wondy really is conceptually. > > And I \*said \*Looker was creepy & hard to do well. She is. Hard does not mean impossible; it would just take a very specific enthusiasm for & approach to the work. Further, she wasn’t always a vampire & she was never a hooker. > > As for dissing Faith, whatever. Having as little source material as she does can be an advantage–less baggage. So your chief argument against Zatanna’s viability is her name is somewhat similar to a D-list character than 99% of the American public has never heard of? That’s… interesting.. [Looker](http://www.armagideon-time.com/?p=2036) and [Faith](http://www.armagideon-time.com/?p=4441) are the dregs of comic book characters. I suppose the fact that they’re ill-defined, poorly known, and generally reviled would make it easier for a director to just use their names to make up whatever kind of superheroine he or she wanted to, but to me, that wouldn’t be a movie about the character from the comics, just a similarly named character. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/67 "2010-10-07T13:53:34Z")
Did you guys hear they are rebooting Superman AGAIN? I thought about this thread when I read it. I am so damn tired of Superman. Now apparently he is going to wander around as Clark Kent and decide whether he wants to be Superman or not. Here is a plaintive cry for some more interesting superheroes, please! ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/68 "2010-10-07T14:01:46Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > So your chief argument against Zatanna’s viability is her name is somewhat similar to a D-list character than 99% of the American public has never heard of? That’s… interesting.. I think the reference there was to [this character](http://www.morethings.com/images/satan/south-park-SatanSad4_couch_revised_big.jpg), whom considerably more people have heard of. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/69 "2010-10-07T14:35:05Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Did you guys hear they are rebooting Superman AGAIN? I thought about this thread when I read it. I am so damn tired of Superman. Now apparently he is going to wander around as Clark Kent and decide whether he wants to be Superman or not. Technically speaking, the last one wasn’t a reboot. It was supposed to be a semi-boot. It was supposed to follow on from Superman II, but ignored Supermans III and IV. If you ask me, the film deserved to fail just for that. When a studio decides to reboot a franchise, they are effectively saying, “sorry, the last few movies we’ve made were terrible, so we are going to ignore them”, in which case, they should be forced to refund everyone who paid money to see those films. With regard to decent female superheroes for the big screen, I think there could be mileage in a Silver Sable movie. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/70 "2010-10-07T15:08:18Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > > [@CandidGamera](#): > > > > So your chief argument against Zatanna’s viability is her name is somewhat similar to a D-list character than 99% of the American public has never heard of? That’s… interesting.. > > I think the reference there was to [this character](http://www.morethings.com/images/satan/south-park-SatanSad4_couch_revised_big.jpg), whom considerably more people have heard of. So, the problem is that Zatanna sounds like Satan, because they both have ‘tan’ in them? Quick, someone go cancel the Captain America movie.. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/71 "2010-10-07T15:15:35Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Did you guys hear they are rebooting Superman AGAIN? I thought about this thread when I read it. I am so damn tired of Superman. Now apparently he is going to wander around as Clark Kent and decide whether he wants to be Superman or not. > > Here is a plaintive cry for some more interesting superheroes, please! I read about an out-of-continuity limited series about “young Clark Kent in the Big City” but did not see it as a reboot. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/72 "2010-10-07T16:12:12Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > So, the problem is that Zatanna sounds like Satan, because they both have ‘tan’ in them? Quick, someone go cancel the Captain America movie.. You are being deliberately obtuse. Even if you don’t feel it is relevant, you should be able to recognise that Satan -\> Zatan -\> Zatanna is closer than Satan -\> Tan -\> Captain America. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/73 "2010-10-07T17:17:51Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > > [@CandidGamera](#): > > > > So, the problem is that Zatanna sounds like Satan, because they both have ‘tan’ in them? Quick, someone go cancel the Captain America movie.. > > You are being deliberately obtuse. Even if you don’t feel it is relevant, you should be able to recognise that Satan -\> Zatan -\> Zatanna is closer than Satan -\> Tan -\> Captain America. Do you really think there’d be some kind of outcry over a character who’s name sounds kind of like Satan, if you tilt your head just right? You know [Miorslav _ **Satan** _](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_%C5%A0atan) had one of the NHL’s bestselling jerseys ever right? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/74 "2010-10-07T17:22:54Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > > [@Grumman](#): > > > > You are being deliberately obtuse. Even if you don’t feel it is relevant, you should be able to recognise that Satan -\> Zatan -\> Zatanna is closer than Satan -\> Tan -\> Captain America. > > Do you really think there’d be some kind of outcry over a character who’s name sounds kind of like Satan, if you tilt your head just right? > > You know [Miorslav _ **Satan** _](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_%C5%A0atan) had one of the NHL’s bestselling jerseys ever right? I hve no doubt that there would be some sort of outcry, which wil be rightly ignored by the entire movie-going public and become the target of a short joke on the Daily Show mocking Fundamentalists. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/75 "2010-10-07T17:26:03Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > So your chief argument against Zatanna’s viability is her name is somewhat similar to a D-list character than 99% of the American public has never heard of? That’s… interesting. No, because her name sounds Satanic. Who’s your target audience? Blackmetalheads? Also, she’s a stinking magic-hat character, who can do anything by speaking backwards. Weirdly, I like Z, though I can’t justify to myself why. Probably due to her characterization in a couple of stories, but that’s really liking those stories.. Honestly, she sucks conceptually. > [@](#): > > [Looker](http://www.armagideon-time.com/?p=2036) and [Faith](http://www.armagideon-time.com/?p=4441) are the dregs of comic book characters. Wow, that blog. I disagree with that guy immensely. > [@](#): > > I suppose the fact that they’re ill-defined, poorly known, and generally reviled would make it easier for a director to just use their names to make up whatever kind of superheroine he or she wanted to, but to me, that wouldn’t be a movie about the character from the comics, just a similarly named character. How can they be generally reviled if no one knows who they are? No, it could be a movie about the character from the comix, it just wouldn’t be a “Tim Burton’s Batman”-style tentpole “comic book movie.” Here’s the thing: I’d rather watch “About a Boy” than Schumacher’s “Batman and Robin.” Comix have weird little smart superhero stories alongside “Red Hulk beats everybody up;” I’d like movies to have that range as well. Looker ain’t Iron Man. She’s a creepy, sort of body horror character who was mutated into what she thought she wanted to look like; & her movie would scare people. But it could work as a sort of milder cousin of something by Cronenberg. I always thought Faith had potential. And I think writing future stories should be about potential, not just aping what has gone before. Of course the big-budget movies won’t pick her up, because there’s no established trademark & fanbase. But those movies usually suck anyway. Oh, well, no one knows what to do with Faith solo since Joe Kelly just used her as “second lady in the JLA.” So, point to you. There’s literally no reason to buy the rights to her except to use in a JLA movie. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/76 "2010-10-07T18:34:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > No, because her name sounds Satanic. The only syllable that Zatanna and Satan share is the ‘-tan’. And even then, those syllables are only identical in certain dialects. Zuh =/= Say. It’s a huge reach to think that people are going to be turned off by the name. Hollywood apparently has no problems producing a movie called ‘Devil’, for that matter. To answer your question, I didn’t say nobody knows who they are. I said they’re poorly known. You might be able to take Looker’s premise, discard its comic execution, and come up with something interesting. But Faith? She’s the epitome of the Mary-Sue concept. We’re supposed to like her because Batman does. And she’s a generic version of Jean Grey, who was already a bit of a Mary-Sue. I’d argue that even Joe Kelly didn’t know what the hell to do with her. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/77 "2010-10-07T19:15:59Z")
I’m a huge fan of Wonder Woman, only because I grew up in the 70s watching the TV series. Yes, her superpowers are kind of dumb. But until I read this thread, I had never heard of most of the other female superheroes, aside from Supergirl, Batgirl, and Catwoman, the first two of which were peripheral to other male superheroes. As a little girl, Wonder Woman, lame as she may have been, was still the only female superhero “role model” for me. So I’ve been waiting with great anticipation for some studio types to extract their heads from their asses and give me a good WW movie. I would like to nominate Rose McGowan as the perfect WW. She kicks ass, is gorgeous, and can fill out a slinky costume without making it all about her tits. She’s perfect for the role! (I love me some Rose McGowan.) To help promote this idea, I am going as WW for Halloween this year. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/78 "2010-10-07T20:13:39Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Ares! Of course! > > What better adversary than the anthropomorphic manifestation of War itself? Maybe we should just have a Xena film instead… ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/79 "2010-10-07T21:15:37Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Don’t dis Cap! > > You know all the stuff we like to believe about ourselves? Truth, Liberty, Equality and that patriotic rah-rah, huddled masses yearning to breathe free? > > Captain America believes all that. He lives all that. He is deeply ashamed of himself and all his countrymen when we fall short of our ideals, and he inspires us all to try harder. And he’s not real. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234/80 "2010-10-07T22:52:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@Lumpy](#): > > > > These days, for a film to be a big sucess it has to appeal to a world market, not just the US; and selling a character who wears a costume derived from the American flag is a hurdle. (The Captain America movie bombed). > > I didn’t even know there _was_ a Captain America movie. Then I realized I was only 8 when it came out. Actually, it didn’t come out. Like Dolph Lundgrin’s Punisher movie, something went wrong, they realized it sucked or something, so they sat on it until finally releasing it direct to video. Then there’s the first Fantastic Four movie that didn’t even get the direct to video part of it (outside of bootlegs anyway). Up until Blade finally broke through, things were pretty grim for movies based on Marvel Superheroes, so you can’t really say Captain America bombed. The whole damn Marvel Universe was bombing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-several-b-list-superheroes-gotten-movies-but-wonder-woman-is-ignored/556234.md?page=5)