# Why have so many simple, basic things never been tried in space? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849 "2007-11-09T23:38:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/1 "2007-11-09T23:38:47Z")
The recent spacewalks to repair the ISS made me realize that actual hands-on experience with repairing hardware in space is vanishingly rare. And that got me to thinking that there are so many really basic, fundamental things that will have to be mastered some day if people are ever going to live and work in space to any degree. Manned spaceflight is now DECADES old, yet so many surprisingly simple things have yet to be done. As far as I know, none of the following have ever even been attempted:[ul][_]simulate gravity with centrifugal force by the simple expedient of putting two modules on the end of a tether and spinning them.[_]pump storable fuel from one tank to another[_]weld two pieces of metal together in zero gravity and vacuum.[_]studied long term cosmic ray exposure by sending some lab mice beyond the Earth’s magnetosphere[_]keep even the simplest closed-cycle system (algae and animals) going in space.[_]Long-term storage of cryogenic propellantsSolar-thermal electrical generation[/ul]I would have added ion propulsion, but a lunar probe **finally** tried it out decades after the concept was first proposed. None of these things, and others I could come up with are that conceptually complicated- SF writers anticipated them before the space age. And it shouldn’t be that difficult or expensive to try them. The only thing I can come up with is that there seems to be no impetus to do anything not active-mission related. Nothing done just for the heck of trying it out, to gain experience even if it doesn’t work. Am I missing some reason why it isn’t as simple as it sounds? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/2 "2007-11-09T23:49:14Z")
The gravity simulation thing sounds recklessly dangerous at any reasonable ‘test’ size. You’re not talking some gigantic wheel turning majestically in space; you’re talking about two rocket-powered objects careening in some nigh-uncontrollable spiral, presumably in the near vicinity of a space shuttle or other manned craft/platform. The other examples I can’t make ready excuses for, but that one seems justifiably avoidable. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/3 "2007-11-10T00:11:07Z")
Doing **anything,** even eating breakfast, in space costs a fortune. No experiment will be approved unless you can make a reasonable case that the results will clear up some question of great interest that we’re not already fairly sure we know the answer to. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/4 "2007-11-10T00:23:40Z")
Why hasn’t an astronaut yet slammed down a bag of potato chips, a quart of ice cream anda bag of oreos? It’s about time we saw somebody PIIIIG OUUUUT IN SPAAAAAACE! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/5 "2007-11-10T00:43:19Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] The gravity simulation thing sounds recklessly dangerous at any reasonable ‘test’ size. You’re not talking some gigantic wheel turning majestically in space; you’re talking about two rocket-powered objects careening in some nigh-uncontrollable spiral, presumably in the near vicinity of a space shuttle or other manned craft/platform. [/QUOTE] There was a kind of unintentional gravity simulation on [Gemini 8.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_8)[Here’s another link.](http://www.spaceline.org/flightchron/gemini8.html) The combined Agena/Gemini docked craft started to roll. After they undocked, the Gemini 8 rolled until Armstrong violated the rules and manually disconnected the Orbiting Attitude Maneuvering System (OAMS) before they blacked out. I assume the issue was the force from the roll. So it is indeed a dangerous thing. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/6 "2007-11-10T01:01:20Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] There was a kind of unintentional gravity simulation on [Gemini 8.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_8)[Here’s another link.](http://www.spaceline.org/flightchron/gemini8.html) The combined Agena/Gemini docked craft started to roll. After they undocked, the Gemini 8 rolled until Armstrong violated the rules and manually disconnected the Orbiting Attitude Maneuvering System (OAMS) before they blacked out. I assume the issue was the force from the roll. So it is indeed a dangerous thing. [/QUOTE] :eek: Um, that’s about all I have to say about that. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/7 "2007-11-10T01:30:56Z")
Allow me to be the first one to suggest the mandatory trial of Sex in Space. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/8 "2007-11-10T01:42:30Z")
[Too late, amigo.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_214.html) ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/9 "2007-11-10T02:14:59Z")
There was an [experiment](http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/1995/95-9.txt) to generate electricity by dragging an object on the end of a 13 mile long tether. Not exactly the spinning pair mentioned, but at least a tethered object in space. [Welding](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welding) in space is also possible—it was first attempted in 1969 by Russian cosmonauts, when they performed experiments to test shielded metal arc welding, plasma arc welding, and electron beam welding in a depressurized environment. Further testing of these methods was done in the following decades, and today researchers continue to develop methods for using other welding processes in space, such as laser beam welding, resistance welding, and friction welding. The Space Station pumps liquid ammonia as a coolant. Not fuel, but worth mentioning. Also, remember Apollo 13 had a bit of trouble stirring a liquid oxygen tank, that’s a component of the fuel the Shuttle uses (I think the liquid oxygen was for breathing on A 13). ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/10 "2007-11-10T02:25:33Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] I would have added ion propulsion, but a lunar probe **finally** tried it out decades after the concept was first proposed. [/QUOTE] Dost thou refer to the ESA SMART-1? Deep Space 1 used ion propulsion 5 years earlier, and NRO had a Hall Effect thruster up a little before that. I suspect that the cost to do these things have to be matched against the publicity they’ll generate. Spending a million to send a 3rd grade frog hatching experiment gets news. Pumping liquid? I suspect that have that figured out. You can weld upside down, why would microgravity be a problem? You wouldn’t need an inert gas because there’s no oxygen. But I can’t think of a single reason to not have a long-term living doohickey experiment. One of those closed terrarium things you can get, but in space! They should have a pet guinea pig up there. Or a cat. An orange one, named Jonesy. on preview, kinda beat by the **Duke** ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/11 "2007-11-10T02:45:29Z")
Bong Hits? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/12 "2007-11-10T03:07:09Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] But I can’t think of a single reason to not have a long-term living doohickey experiment. One of those closed terrarium things you can get, but in space! They should have a pet guinea pig up there. Or a cat. An orange one, named Jonesy. [/QUOTE] Don’t experiments generally have some sort of objective or purpose? What the heck would a closed-cycle system test for? If it dies, does that prove that environments can’t exist in space? Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a cool idea and all. You could probably make back your expenditures just by selling the offspring of the brine shrimp, with a little judicious merchandising. “These are no ordinary Sea Monkeys… They’re SPACE MONKEYS!” ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/13 "2007-11-10T20:49:22Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] Allow me to be the first one to suggest the mandatory trial of Sex in Space. [/QUOTE] We need to reproduce. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/14 "2007-11-10T21:04:36Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Bong Hits? [/QUOTE] Covered. **Gotta** be. Remember those weird lights Glenn saw in '62? ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/15 "2007-11-10T21:18:52Z")
A space-bong would have to be freakishly complicated. They’d have to, like **Velcro** the water down, man. Guinea Piiiiigs… In… Spaaaaace. Someone call NASA. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/16 "2007-11-10T22:56:04Z")
Gemini 12 did try an artificial gravity experiment. The Gemini was attached to the Agena by a 100 foot tether and then spun around the center of mass providing a weak “artificial gravity” aboard the spacecraft. ---
**Author:** ![Carpe\_Ursa-Seize\_the\_Bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Carpe\_Ursa-Seize\_the\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carpe_Ursa-Seize_the_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/17 "2007-11-14T23:16:29Z")
The main reason is that space missions are not for scientific purpose, but military and to some extent private telecom. The rest of the mission is just a sop to the hoi polloi to keep the funding coming. And the hoi polloi doesn’t know science from creationism, apparently, and just wants to see a show. They support space like they support buying new stadiums for rich ball players. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/18 "2007-11-14T23:20:44Z")
[QUOTE=Carpe Ursa- Seize the Bear] The main reason is that space missions are not for scientific purpose, but military and to some extent private telecom. [/QUOTE] Got a cite to back that claim? ---
**Author:** ![ArmenE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ArmenE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArmenE)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/19 "2007-11-15T00:07:36Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] [li]studied long term cosmic ray exposure by sending some lab mice beyond the Earth’s magnetosphere[/QUOTE][/li]From a year old [press release](http://www.cshl.edu/public/releases/06_prozac_target.html) > [@](#): > > In collaboration with NASA researchers, experiments are also under way at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory to assess how neurogenesis in the adult brain might be influenced by long-term, Mission-to-Mars levels of exposure to a particular kind of damaging radiation that’s prevalent in space. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2007, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849/20 "2007-11-15T16:09:42Z")
I want to see a kung-fu fight, in space! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-simple-basic-things-never-been-tried-in-space/425849.md?page=2)