# Why have so many White House aides been ousted? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 27, 2017, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823 "2017-08-27T07:39:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/21 "2017-08-28T16:35:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Remember, a president’s power to pardon is virtually unlimited. Could we seriously not see him saying “It’s okay to kill alt-left protesters who become unruly and riot - I will pardon them”? We’re getting closer and closer to a Reichstag fire moment. Things aren’t quite that dire, the President can only pardon federal crimes. Murder of protestors would be a state crime. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/22 "2017-08-28T16:45:51Z")
On the other hand, if he were to say that, it would surely encourage murders committed by folks who don’t know about the federal-state distinction. And even if you can still prosecute the murderers afterwards, it’s much better if they don’t murder in the first place. How does the turnover in Trump’s administration compare to previous Presidents? I’m pretty sure he’s the record, but who was the second-most, and with how many changes of personnel? And for that matter, exactly how many changes has Trump’s administration had? ---
**Author:** ![Bobdavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bobdavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobdavis)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/23 "2017-08-28T17:27:29Z")
Democracy is messy. Why expect total agreement and compliance? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/24 "2017-08-28T17:34:26Z")
I think it’s part of his plan to shield himself from prosecution. And most of these people were hired to be fired. A revolving door of personnel increases chaos and makes pinning anything on anyone much harder, in my opinion. Everything will be way too messy to unravel I would think. I say he knows exactly what he’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/25 "2017-08-28T18:10:53Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > Trump has fired people ranging from moderate centrists to literal white supremacists and conspiracy theorists like Steve Bannon. They’re not always being fired for the same reason (and newly-empowered General Kelly did the actual firing of a few of them). Many of the people left of their own volition due to clashes, not always even clashes with Trump. > > While I’m happy to see a horrible person like Bannon go, I’m pretty sure Kelly fired him because he wouldn’t and couldn’t follow orders like “play nice with others” rather than his beliefs; if Kelly couldn’t work with a supremacist, why is he working for Trump? Although it’s nice to see a Bannon supporter, Seb Gorka, leave too. He’s trying to minimize the damage to the country. That involves “get rid of all white supremacists you can.” Kelly has it within his means to get rid of Bannon and Gorka. He does not have it within his means to get rid of Trump. No contradiction. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/26 "2017-08-28T18:18:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > On the other hand, if he were to say that, it would surely encourage murders committed by folks who don’t know about the federal-state distinction. And even if you can still prosecute the murderers afterwards, it’s much better if they don’t murder in the first place. > > How does the turnover in Trump’s administration compare to previous Presidents? I’m pretty sure he’s the record, but who was the second-most, and with how many changes of personnel? And for that matter, exactly how many changes has Trump’s administration had? Trump has the record of turnover for the first year of a presidency. [http://www.9news.com/news/local/verify/verify-is-trumps-staff-turnover-unusual/461137333](http://www.9news.com/news/local/verify/verify-is-trumps-staff-turnover-unusual/461137333) > [@](#): > > The Verify team also talked to University of Minnesota political professor Eric Ostermeier. He studies presidential cabinets and even built a database going back to the early 1900s. > > Here’s what we found: > > Seven people either resigned or were fired by the Trump administration so far. > > 1. National Security Advisor Michael Flynn served 24 days > 2. Acting Attorney General Sally Yates served 10 days > 3. Communications Director Mike Dubke served 88 days > 4. FBI Director James Comey served 109 days > 5. Press Secretary Sean Spicer served 182 days > 6. Chief of Staff Reince Priebus served 189 days > 7. Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci served 10 days > > When you compare that list to the first years of the previous six presidents, Trump is an outlier. > > Only Presidents Barack Obama and Ronald Reagan lost anyone – one communications director apiece – in their first full years in office. > > But what about other years of their presidencies? > > There are a couple of situations where you see as much turnover as the Trump administration. The first is after a president wins re-election. Presidents George W Bush, Bill Clinton and Obama saw greater turnover than Trump in the years after they won a second term. > > The other two situations where presidents experienced a cluster of high level turnovers were administrative scandals or turmoil. So, extraordinary for the first year (that is not over yet!), but close to normal for the last years of an administration or when there are scandals. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/27 "2017-08-28T18:40:52Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Eh, they both built houses. Carter builds houses. Trump convinces an investor to front the money to build a house, hires a contractor to build the house, stiffs the contractor when the invoice comes in, and pockets the investor’s money. But yeah, in both cases there’s a house built. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/28 "2017-08-28T21:38:14Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Things aren’t quite that dire, the President can only pardon federal crimes. Murder of protestors would be a state crime. True, if we’re talking about local police forces. But suppose he just ignored the posse comitatus statute and started sending in federal troops to deal with police matters? He pushed the idea of sending in a federal presence in Chicago but pulled back, kind of in the “Ah shit, I was just joking” vein. But that’s what he does again and again. Float an idea, then pull it back. He telegraphs his moves to see the reaction, then figures people will get pissed but they’ll get over it and nobody has the balls to stand up to him. He fired Bannon and Gorka, then said he’d pardon Arpaio - and did just that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/29 "2017-08-28T22:22:40Z")
> [@Bobdavis](#): > > Democracy is messy. Why expect total agreement and compliance? Nobody expects total agreement and compliance. But this is Trump vs his own administration. You’re expected to be able to work with your own staff. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/30 "2017-08-28T22:48:58Z")
The problem is, Trump does expect total agreement and compliance. Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, and all the rest have had disagreements with their cabinets. But they stayed on despite those disagreements. > [@](#): > > Quoth **elbows** : > > I think it’s part of his plan to shield himself from prosecution. And most of these people were hired to be fired. A revolving door of personnel increases chaos and makes pinning anything on anyone much harder, in my opinion. Everything will be way too messy to unravel I would think. That might be his plan, but I can’t see how it would work. When everyone else is going through the revolving door, but the same garbage keeps on going on, the only person left to blame is the one who’s not going through the revolving door. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/31 "2017-08-28T23:35:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > But suppose he just ignored the posse comitatus statute and started sending in federal troops to deal with police matters? SECDEF is in the chain of command to pass along those illegal orders; CJCS can be if SECDEF chooses to use them in a role with command authority. Even if he Saturday night massacres it to get an Acting SECDEF who will pass along the order there’s still all the officers in the chain down to the commander of the force assigned the mission. They would all have to ignore their oath and pass along a plainly illegal order. It would also require the enlisted troops to execute that plainly illegal order. (In case you think unthinking compliance is the order of the day for senior enlisted let me quote the First Sergeant who was my Acting CSM when he merely wanted to open a discussion about clearly legal orders - “You gotta be fucking kidding me , Sir!” ) There would also be the Governor and State AG to go postal about the overreach and push it immediately into court. Remember, aside from specific legally defined exceptions for insurrection, federal troops work for civilian authorities in the state when deployed in support of civil operations like law enforcement. That means another possible avenue of legal challenge for the Governor even if the posse commitatus piece is at all legally vague. If all rule of law breaks down and state level governments, the judicial branch, and the military all roll over to allow something that is blatantly illegal …then we’re screwed. It takes quite a bit more than Trump just ordering it. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/32 "2017-08-29T00:00:00Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Guys guys - has nobody seen The Apprentice, or Celebrity Apprentice? That’s all he knows. > > So, every week, he just has to say “Your fired!” to somebody. > > He really can’t help himself. “What? And leave show business?” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/33 "2017-08-29T01:48:04Z")
Not exactly a ‘White House aide’, but… [Trump Punishes Longtime Aide After Angry Phoenix Speech, Sources Say](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-28/trump-is-said-to-punish-longtime-aide-after-angry-phoenix-speech). > [@](#): > > But it was too late for a longtime Trump aide, George Gigicos, the former White House director of advance who had organized the event as a contractor to the Republican National Committee. Trump later had his top security aide, Keith Schiller, inform Gigicos that he’d never manage a Trump rally again, according to three people familiar with the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/34 "2017-08-29T03:14:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The problem is, Trump does expect total agreement and compliance. Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, and all the rest have had disagreements with their cabinets. But they stayed on despite those disagreements. Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, and the rest all had more sense than Trump. None of them would have tried to do any of a number of the dumb things that Trump has done. So their staffers wouldn’t have needed to disagree with those Presidents over doing dumb things. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/35 "2017-08-29T04:00:13Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Trump convinces an investor to front the money to build a house, hires a contractor to build the house, stiffs the contractor when the invoice comes in, and pockets the investor’s money. It didn’t work out quite that way when he tried it with his golf course in Scotland. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/36 "2017-08-29T21:27:23Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Carter builds houses. > > Trump convinces an investor to front the money to build a house, hires a contractor to build the house, stiffs the contractor when the invoice comes in, and pockets the investor’s money. > > But yeah, in both cases there’s a house built. You left out the part where Trump somehow ends up with title to the house free and clear, then sells it and pockets the money a second time. Or mortgages it for 10x what it’s worth, pockets that money, then has the entity that signed the mortgage declare BK and walk on the mortgage. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/37 "2017-09-04T19:46:44Z")
Reagan had to let several of his team go in his first term. I think Clinton’s cabinet had a few scandals over the first few years too. When you bring in an amateur, an outsider, a neophyte, a naïf, to run the White House, many of the people who tag along are going to be less qualified, and some much less trustworthy, and you’ll have to fix these personnel mistakes. And the guy at the top, without any Washington experience, is going to make a lot of personnel mistakes. And Trump is, well, he’s an amateur, an outsider, a neophyte, a naïf, and a crook. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/38 "2017-09-04T19:51:59Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Eh, they both built houses. What proportion of Carter’s houses are still standing, and what proportion of Trump’s are homes for owls now? I expect there’s a better average on Carter’s. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/39 "2017-09-06T02:46:46Z")
And another one bites the dust: “President Trump ‘Crushed’ That Longtime Personal Bodyguard Is Leaving the White House: Report” [http://people.com/politics/president-trump-bodyguard-keith-schiller-leaving-white-house/amp/?xid=amprecirc1](http://people.com/politics/president-trump-bodyguard-keith-schiller-leaving-white-house/amp/?xid=amprecirc1) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823/40 "2017-09-06T02:51:56Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And another one bites the dust: > > “President Trump ‘Crushed’ That Longtime Personal Bodyguard Is Leaving the White House: Report” > > [http://people.com/politics/president-trump-bodyguard-keith-schiller-leaving-white-house/amp/?xid=amprecirc1](http://people.com/politics/president-trump-bodyguard-keith-schiller-leaving-white-house/amp/?xid=amprecirc1) > [@](#): > > But now, White House aides reportedly fear that Schiller’s exit will “leave the president and the West Wing off-balance” and lead to clashes between Trump and Kelly. > > \*\*Schiller also reportedly believes that Kelly doesn’t like the president personally \*\*— something sources say has been “deeply demoralizing” for Schiller, who is used to Trump being surrounded by devoted employees. No shit, Sherlock. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-so-many-white-house-aides-been-ousted/794823.md?page=3)