# Why have they stopped making Audio CD-RW's **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885 "2015-10-27T17:54:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![1224rattusrattus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ec9cab/32.png) [@1224rattusrattus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1224rattusrattus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/1 "2015-10-27T17:54:16Z")
Most blank CD’s are designed for computers which can read virtually every format, and the same goes for blank DVD’s too. If like me you are making music CD’s it can be wise to record them on AUDIO CDRs as that’s the only way you can guarantee it will work on virtually every Hi-Fi. These can still be easily found on the internet, but are less common in the real world. But what I really want are AUDIO CD-RW’s, which you can record on over and over again. They are particularly useful as it’s easy to make mistakes when recording albums, and ordinary CDR’s can’t be corrected. Unfortunately it seems that no company is manufacturing the re-recordable blank CD’s anymore. I understand they are a relatively niche product, but it surprises me that other supposedly obsolete formats such as Audio tapes, answerphone cassettes, Videotapes, spare parts for '80’s video consoles, limited run vinyl singles, even Reel to Reels can still be found- if there’s a market for that then why not audio CDRW’s? It’s a big world after all So does anyone here have any inside info ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/2 "2015-10-27T18:02:13Z")
CD-RWs don’t play on all CD players, though. And CD-Rs are super cheap. If you make a mistake, burn a fresh disc. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/3 "2015-10-27T18:02:21Z")
[You must not have looked very hard.](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0016025UG?keywords=cd-rw&qid=1445968955&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1) ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/4 "2015-10-27T18:08:01Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > [You must not have looked very hard.](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0016025UG?keywords=cd-rw&qid=1445968955&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1) I believe he looking for _Audio_ CD-RWs, not just CD-RWs. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/5 "2015-10-27T18:08:54Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > I believe he looking for _Audio_ CD-RWs, not just CD-RWs. The only difference is the price. ---
**Author:** ![1224rattusrattus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ec9cab/32.png) [@1224rattusrattus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1224rattusrattus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/6 "2015-10-27T18:32:40Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > The only difference is the price. What do you mean? Hi-Fi equipment can be fussy eaters when it comes to blank CD’s, especially if they are ten years old. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/7 "2015-10-27T18:33:38Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > The only difference is the price. Partly because of[taxation differences](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy). If media is marked for music recording, it’s silently taxed by 3% to pay a copyright royalty, as authorized by law (all over the place, actually, but the following is about US law) > [@Wikipedia](#): > > 17 U.S.C. § 1008 bars copyright infringement action and 17 U.S.C. § 1003 provides for a royalty of 2% of the initial transfer price for devices and **3% for media**. The royalty rate in 17 U.S.C. § 1004 was established by the Fairness in Music Licensing Act of 1998. **This only applies to CDs which are labeled and sold for music use;** they do not apply to blank computer CDs, even though they can be (and often are) used to record or “burn” music from the computer to CD. There is a possibility of a technical difference, depending on the equipment used: > [@MusicEdMagic](#): > > If you are using a PC to do all of your burning, then it doesn’t matter. PCs do not differentiate between music CD-Rs and data CD-Rs. They simply see a blank media and duplicate information on to it pertaining to the settings you have outlined in the software you are using to burn the CD. > > However, if you are using a separate home CD burner, it may or may not allow you to burn data/music onto a generic blank data/music CDR. Proprietors are funny like that. They really only want you to use blank media with brand names that they have approved of. From [https://www.musicedmagic.com/music-technology/music-cd-r-vs-data-cd-r-is-there-a-difference.html](https://www.musicedmagic.com/music-technology/music-cd-r-vs-data-cd-r-is-there-a-difference.html) In other words, if you went full-audiophile\* and bought a CD-R burner as a piece of your sound system, you may have voluntarily submitted yourself to proprietary lock-in. \*“full-audiophile” is not, by the way, a compliment. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/8 "2015-10-27T18:35:00Z")
When burning a disk, if you choose to make the disk an audio rather than data CD then you’ll get what you want. There is no physical difference between an audio or data CD, it has to do with the way the disk is formatted. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/9 "2015-10-27T18:39:08Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > The only difference is the price. Not all the time. Audio-CD’s R/Rw include [SCMS (Serial Copy Management System)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Copy_Management_System) which makes them more compatible with more devices and lets you easier copy Audio CD’s with DRM. [Cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc#ReWritable_CD) [Cite](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/advice/9967533/Why-do-I-have-to-use-Digital-Audio-CD-Rs-to-transfer-casette-tapes-to-CD.html) However, I would still recommend CD-R over Rewritables - due to cheaper price and better compatibility with standard CD players, like your car. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/10 "2015-10-27T18:42:38Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Not all the time. > > Audio-CD’s R/Rw include [SCMS (Serial Copy Management System)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Copy_Management_System) which makes them more compatible with more devices and lets you easier copy Audio CD’s with DRM. > > [Cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc#ReWritable_CD) > > [Cite](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/advice/9967533/Why-do-I-have-to-use-Digital-Audio-CD-Rs-to-transfer-casette-tapes-to-CD.html) > > However, I would still recommend CD-R over Rewritables - due to cheaper price and better compatibility with standard CD players, like your car. Editorial: if you chose to purchase a playback device that enforces SCMS, you deserve everything that happens to you. No one can trade away your rights but you. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/11 "2015-10-27T18:43:26Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > The only difference is the price. Audio CD-R/RW discs are 74 minutes like the original Red Book standard CD. Older CD mechanisms can’t read 80 minute discs because those have a slightly tighter track pitch than specified in the Red Book. given an 80 minute disc, they’ll either attempt to find the track, reset, retry into infinity, or give up after a short time and throw an error. **edit:** at least they used to be; now I see a lot of 80 min. “Audio CD-Rs.” ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/12 "2015-10-27T18:45:44Z")
I believe that audio-CD’s have a maximum or standard size of data per disk that limits the length of music that can fit on a audio CD - something like 74 minutes. Data CD’s can and sometimes do exceed that capacity per disk, the term ‘overburning’ comes to mind for this for when they first exceded the capacity of a audio CD. CD audio players are not standardized to read CD’s that were overburned, some will some won’t, so safer to use a audio CD. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/13 "2015-10-27T18:49:36Z")
So then you can’t find old audio CD formats for the same reason 5 1/4" floppies and Betamax tapes are scarce. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/14 "2015-10-27T18:56:17Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Audio CD-R/RW discs are 74 minutes like the original Red Book standard CD. Older CD mechanisms can’t read 80 minute discs because those have a slightly tighter track pitch than specified in the Red Book. given an 80 minute disc, they’ll either attempt to find the track, reset, retry into infinity, or give up after a short time and throw an error. > > **edit:** at least they used to be; now I see a lot of 80 min. “Audio CD-Rs.” So, can’t you just define the parameters of the burn to be 74 minutes? Or, am I wrong in thinking that a blank CDR is blank with no actual hard-coded tracks on the disc? Also, I think SCMS is automatically engaged when you burn a CD for audio use regardless if it’s a data or audio CDR. I remember running into this way back when, my brother gave me a mixed CD and when I tried to copy it I got the SCMS error. The way to check it, burn an audio CD, and try to make a copy of a copy. SCMS allows for one copy to be made. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/15 "2015-10-27T19:20:01Z")
> [@electronbee](#): > > So, can’t you just define the parameters of the burn to be 74 minutes? Or, am I wrong in thinking that a blank CDR is blank with no actual hard-coded tracks on the disc? CD-Rs have a [pre-groove](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_Time_in_Pregroove) which the write laser follows. so no a CD writer cannot put down an arbitrary track pitch. ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/16 "2015-10-28T00:22:08Z")
I’ve found that audio CDs sound ‘warmer’. ---
**Author:** ![1224rattusrattus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ec9cab/32.png) [@1224rattusrattus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1224rattusrattus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/17 "2015-10-28T16:31:43Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Editorial: if you chose to purchase a playback device that enforces SCMS, you deserve everything that happens to you. No one can trade away your rights but you. I would suspect that most if not all hi-fi CD recorders enforce SCMS (I have a DVD/ VHS recorder that also doesn’t accept numerous types of blank disc), so there’s little choice in the matter. It’s interesting though because I always assumed the reason why it didn’t work was because PC oriented blank discs were at fault because they didn’t bother to make them backwards compatible with older black goods- whereas if I am reading you correctly the black goods manufacturers have built in the inability to read a wider range of discs. Other random musings- you can buy 80 minute audio discs. It is true that no-one is still making betamax tapes but when you consider an audio CDRW is made in exactly the same way as any other blank disc, it is very easy for at least one of these factories to produce a limited amount of the discs I want. If I remember rightly there’s even somewhere producing new NES cartridges. ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/18 "2015-10-28T16:47:25Z")
> [@JerrySTL](#): > > I’ve found that audio CDs sound ‘warmer’. They do as long as you paint the edge of the disc with a black magic marker so that the bits aren’t flung out of the side of the disc when it’s spinning. It’s the “warm” bits that get flung first. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/19 "2015-10-28T20:11:39Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Not all the time. > > Audio-CD’s R/Rw include [SCMS (Serial Copy Management System)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Copy_Management_System) which makes them more compatible with more devices and lets you easier copy Audio CD’s with DRM. > > [Cite](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc#ReWritable_CD) > > [Cite](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/advice/9967533/Why-do-I-have-to-use-Digital-Audio-CD-Rs-to-transfer-casette-tapes-to-CD.html) > > However, I would still recommend CD-R over Rewritables - due to cheaper price and better compatibility with standard CD players, like your car. The official Red Book CD audio standard made absolutely no provisions for copy protection (home CD burning was flying-car futuristic stuff back then). Consequently if an audio CD is released with any kind of copy protection it cannot carry [the official CD Digital Audio logo.](https://pure-music.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/CD-AUDIO-LOGO11.png) Several attempts were still made in the early 2000s by record companies to copy protect their discs, most being easily defeatable (search Google) and some actually acting like malware (Sony’s infamous rootkit scheme). As others have said the so-called ‘Audio CD-R/RW’ discs cost more simply because the RIAA imposed a small tax on their sales. As long as your prerecorded, store-bought CD has the official CD logo on it and you use a computer CD/DVD-ROM drive and not a component stereo CD player/burner unit to, ahem, _‘back it up’_ you don’t need any special ‘Audio’ labeled CD-R/RWs. And there really is no reason to use CD-RWs anymore. I’ve been burning CD-Rs since the late 90s and I have never, not even once bought a single CD-RW disc because even back then blank CD-R discs got so cheap so quickly. Even though I do still occasionally buy an actual music CD (they’re often cheaper to buy in the store than online) they are nothing more than a long-term library storage medium for me now. I rip them onto my smartphone and then put the disc in the rack to gather dust. > [@MindsEye\_Watering](#): > > They do as long as you paint the edge of the disc with a black magic marker so that the bits aren’t flung out of the side of the disc when it’s spinning. It’s the “warm” bits that get flung first. Doing this to ‘fix’ CDs that skipped etc. was indeed just an urban legend (I think it was supposed to be a green pen\*!\*) But it was a method of defeating one particular copy protection scheme. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885/20 "2015-10-28T20:16:52Z")
> [@JerrySTL](#): > > I’ve found that audio CDs sound ‘warmer’. They do, but only if you play them with a stylus on a proper turntable connected to a vacuum-tube amplifier with monster cables that cost at least $600 apiece. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-they-stopped-making-audio-cd-rws/735885.md?page=2)