# Why have TV shows become so STUPID **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628 "2005-12-01T22:00:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/41 "2005-12-03T01:16:08Z")
I recall a whimsical scene where our antagonist, Mr. Roper, stumbles into the living room and upon our humble protagonists, Jack and Chrissy, in the course of an innocent dialog in the bedroom as they try to locate a lost object. However, by the time Mr. Roper enters, the conversation has already begun. Unable to see the pair, and unaware of the reason for and innocence of the conversation, Mr. Roper overhears only part of the conversation, which is apparently laden with sexual innuendo. Mr. Roper continues to eavesdrop on our unsuspecting duo only to find the conversation becoming increasingly provocative and sexually suggestive in Mr. Roper’s mind, which obviously angers him greatly. Infuriated, Mr. Roper charges into the bedroom, only to find Jack and Chrissy searching the room. Hilarity ensues! Genius. ---
**Author:** ![Tio\_Gringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@Tio\_Gringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tio_Gringo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/42 "2005-12-03T01:21:50Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > The best show on TV right now is “Veronica Mars.” Considering only three of us on the planet watch it, it won’t be for long. I keep hearing about “Veronica Mars,” but I don’t know anything about it. What is the general gist of the story? What day/channel is it on? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/43 "2005-12-03T01:37:37Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > hey Hey HEY NOW!! Don’t be dissin’ my Green Acres! The writing on that show was top notch, and it still is a lot funnier than most of the FDHW\* clones today. Actually I agree. Green Acres is a great, silly, surrealistic show. But you have to admit they do the same gags over and over every episode. But I still like it after all these years. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/44 "2005-12-03T03:30:04Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’m old enough to remember TV in the '50s, and I don’t think our appetite for stupidity has changed since then. At the risk of sounding like an elitist, I don’t think most people have ever looked for much intellectual stimulation on the tube, then or now. The only difference is that there are more channels now. > > The one thing that has changed, though, is what passes for “news,” especially local news. It’s embarrassing to watch. Sing it. In 1958 there were _31_ prime time westerns. They ranged from classics like **Gunsmoke** and **Maverick** to cow fodder like **Buckskin.** If I wanted sophisticated humor in 1964, I watched **Dick Van Dyke** or **That Was the Week That Was** – but most of us were watching **The Beverly Hillbillies** and **Flipper.** Were Steve Allen and Jack Paar “better” than Leno and Letterman? Sometimes, but sometimes their shtick was trite and tired even by '50s standards. The only thing I disagree with **panache45** about – local news could be pretty bad, back then, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/45 "2005-12-03T03:34:49Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > I’m sick of the “old shows don’t have quality or aren’t as intellegent at today” arguments. It’s the other side of the “OMG, everything was better in the old days!!!” coin that _I_ get so sick of. People aren’t happy unless they’re bitching about something. And yes, for anyone quoting this to point it out, I realize the irony inherent in my post. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/46 "2005-12-03T05:13:49Z")
> [@EvilAsh](#): > > I keep hearing about “Veronica Mars,” but I don’t know anything about it. What is the general gist of the story? What day/channel is it on? We’ll start with the easy part. It’s scheduled in most markets for 9:00 EST on Wednesdays on UPN. So, it’s opposite Lost. It struggles in the ratings. It’s about a girl whose father used to be sheriff of a town called Neptune, CA. A murder happened. It was Veronica’s best friend. Her father accused the best friend’s father and ended up losing his job over it. Her father became a private detective and Veronica hung around him, getting into sticky situations and attempting to solve her best friend’s murder. That’s essentially the plot of the first season. It’s a hard show to describe without it sounding dumb. It’s not dumb, I promise. And the creator of Buffy/Angel/Firefly, Joss Whedon, says: > [@Joss Whedon](#): > > [I can no longer restrain myself. Best. Show. Ever.](http://tv.zap2it.com/tveditorial/tve_main/1,1002,271%7C97564%7C1%7C,00.html) . ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/47 "2005-12-03T17:27:45Z")
I’ve thought about watching **Veronica Mars,** but **Mallard Fillmore** spent most of a week shilling for the show, and that put me off. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/48 "2005-12-04T14:41:26Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > But mostly, I think that 20 years from now, people will look back at the late 90’s and early 00’s as a golden age of tv. Really? I know that _I_ will look back on that time period as the Great Reality Wasteland in television history. Five days in a row of _Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?_, and you think it’s the “golden age of tv”?! ---
**Author:** ![Squee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@Squee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squee)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/49 "2005-12-04T14:50:40Z")
I’ve caught one episode of Veronica Mars while channel surfing. It’s rare you hear of anything “great” coming out of the UPN network. It was pretty good, but not great. No disrespect to loyal fans… I didn’t like Firefly either, but love Arrested Development. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I’ll try to give VM another go this week… thanks for posting the date and time. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/50 "2005-12-04T16:59:39Z")
I doubt that TV thirty, forty or fifty years ago was more or less intelligent than it is today. But it was certainly much less coarse and vulgar. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/51 "2005-12-04T21:28:05Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Five days in a row of _Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?_, and you think it’s the “golden age of tv”?! Let’s see, the past ten years have given us (in no particular order of preference): Buffy Angel Firefly Deadwood Six Feet Under Band of Brothers The West Wing Lost Desperate Housewives Veronica Mars Oz Sopranos Curb your enthusiam Monk Rome Dead Like Me C.S.I. Las Vegas Scrubs 24 Family Guy Friends E.R. (technically from '94) Taken B5 (technically '94) The Practice 3rd shift Spin City Ally Mcbeal The Shield Joan of Arcadia NCIS The O.C. The 4400 South Park Futurama Gilmore Girls Roswell Smallville That 70’s show For those who care to look outside that barren wasteland that is American tv, there’s of course equally awful products from the UK, Canada, Australia. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/52 "2005-12-06T15:51:59Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > \*But the biggest debt is to B5, which showed that tv can be so much better than movies and on par with literature, if only the showrunner gets a chance to tell the story without (too much) interference from the network. VM ows a great deal to Buffy, but all good contemporary tv ows everything to B5. I can only assume that when they showed B5 in Sweden, they dubbed over all the excruciating original dialogue with dialogue that made sense. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/53 "2005-12-06T19:53:25Z")
> [@SuaSponte](#): > > I can only assume that when they showed B5 in Sweden, they dubbed over all the excruciating original dialogue with dialogue that made sense. > > Sua Ha ha. If you don’t know what I’m refering to, why don’t you ask? ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/54 "2005-12-06T22:23:25Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Occam’s Razor. I would’t want to be shaving with his razor. After all these years it must be pretty dull. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/55 "2005-12-07T14:45:18Z")
> [@The Gaspode](#): > > Ha ha. > If you don’t know what I’m refering to, why don’t you ask? I know exactly what you are referring to. I have had the displeasure of watching every single episode of B5. There were periods in the second and third season where the story was compelling, but even then the show was marred by atrocious writing and dialogue, wooden acting, characters acting wildly, well, out of character in order to advance a plot point, and plot holes one could drive a tank through. IMO, in the sci-fi television world, B5 ranks slightly below Star Trek: Voyager. In the rest of the television universe, B5 simply doesn’t rank, and it sure isn’t influential. And before you say it, let me address the supposed Holy Grail that B5 fanatics always raise - the story arc. Sure, B5 had a well-defined and rigid story arc. But it was by no means the first show to have such - see, for example, “Wiseguy”. Nor is a story arc such a plus if the story being arced isn’t all that good. Finally, a story arc in general isn’t a plus if it means that the show ignores plots or subplots that have worked better than expected, or pushes forward with plots and subplots that just aren’t working. _Good_ shows recognize that a recurring character that is really working should be continued to be integrated in the story line, even if the original plan was to have him/her around for only three episodes. Bad shows (like B5) keep plugging away with a character who is just irritating as hell, because that is what the pre-planned story arc demands. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628/56 "2005-12-07T15:33:48Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > There is so much wrong with that…I don’t think my mind can grasp the enormity of the error. > > Besides, Buffy blew Spike. And probably Riley. And maybe Angel, later, when he was in L.A. But not Chunks. Parker. But only once. For twenty min… er, never mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-have-tv-shows-become-so-stupid/333628.md?page=2)