# Why haven't 24 hour diners taken off in Australia the way they have in the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2010, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735 "2010-01-05T09:47:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/81 "2010-01-07T09:04:21Z")
Just a thought. Is “filter” coffee the stuff I see in American movies where the waitress has a glass pot and refills peoples’ mugs right at the table? Do Americans consider filter coffee “coffee” and the other types such as lattes, cappuccinos, flat whites, expressos as “gourmet” or “foreign” or “special” coffee? If so, it may explain the Starbucks situation. I can’t think of anyone I know who drinks filter coffee… it’s either nothing, instant or lattes and caps. At any place I’ve worked it’s either been only instant or instant and a coffee machine that takes & grinds beans or satchels. The only place I’ve seen it frequently is in hotels… where coffee is notoriously burnt, too hot and generally shiat. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/82 "2010-01-07T09:11:24Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Please note that the Australians who are talking about the cost of coffee in Starbucks and other coffee shops are giving the prices in Australian dollars, so before you decide how high the prices are, consider the conversion rate. > \ Conversion rate isn’t that big of a deal though because even in Aussie dollars, $5-6 is far too much for great coffee, let alone the crap Starbucks sold. It’s not uncommon to get orgasmically great coffee for $3-4, and by “coffee” I mean anything from flat whites, lattes, caps to expresso. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/83 "2010-01-07T09:14:06Z")
Sorry, I was remembering a conversion rate from years ago in which Australian dollars were worth noticeably less than American dollars. If that had still been true, conversion rate would indeed be important. ---
**Author:** ![Leiko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leiko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leiko)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/84 "2010-01-07T09:24:23Z")
**mecaenas** , if you order “coffee” in most American restaurants, you get what you’ve seen in films. (Side note: you’re not going to see flat whites or long blacks on the menu. Latte, cappuccino, mocha, Americano, and espresso, drip coffee, along with iced versions thereof, chai, tea, and hot chocolate and maybe flavored steamed milk or a frappuchino/blended drink are the near standard coffeehouse drinks here.) In my experience you’re more likely to have drip/filter coffee at home. Even in western Washington it’s not common to have a home espresso machine unless you’re dedicated to making your own espresso. Instead we stop off at the nearly-ubiquitous drive-through coffee stands or dash in to the nearest Starbucks/Tully’s/whatever. Lattes are so common that even McDonald’s has them now, but they’re not what I think of when somebody says “standard coffee.” Additional side note: Gas stations and chain restaurants like Denny’s generally have their own “cappuccinos” which can be more accurately described as hot sweet slightly foamy coffee drinks. Great for a sugar rush, not so great for coffee flavor. One more side note: If you go for Thai or Vietnamese than there’s generally French press coffee and flavored/sweetened with condensed milk coffees instead of the glass pot drip coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Leiko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leiko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leiko)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/85 "2010-01-07T09:30:53Z")
Sorry for the double post; I realized I omitted macchiatos and red eyes/shot in the dark from the standard drinks list. So consider that more thorough now. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/86 "2010-01-07T15:27:08Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > Just a thought. > > Is “filter” coffee the stuff I see in American movies where the waitress has a glass pot and refills peoples’ mugs right at the table? > > Do Americans consider filter coffee “coffee” and the other types such as lattes, cappuccinos, flat whites, expressos as “gourmet” or “foreign” or “special” coffee? If so, it may explain the Starbucks situation. > . Yes, this is about the size of it. Until Starbucks became widespread, you could not get a cappuccino most places in America. Most people, unless they had been to Italy or were ethnically Italian or lived in Seattle or New York, had never heard of such a thing. Americans largely also consider instant coffee an abomination. There was a recent thread about that, comparing US & Australian coffee habits. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/87 "2010-01-07T15:48:44Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > The first time I ever heard of “Mickey D’s”, I asked if they served lobster. :smack: [Some McDonald’s serve lobster!](http://www.gunaxin.com/the-mclobster-sandwich-and-other-mcmenu-madness/14255) ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/88 "2010-01-07T22:17:03Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > It’s usually right at the very bottom of the menu in smaller print, IIRC. Perhaps in the hopes you won’t notice and will order the $5 Cappuccino instead. 😛 Absolutely right. It had some sort of logo in front of it where the text should have started, and I must have skipped right past it. ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/89 "2010-01-07T22:23:11Z")
> [@Leiko](#): > > But those aren’t “standard coffees”- those are espresso drinks. Standard coffee is drip, filter, or percolator. It was until about 25 years ago. I know that they still have machines like that at Macca’s, but they’re typically being phased out by the McCafe coffees that seem to be at all of them now. Other than that, I don’t think that I’ve seen one since I was in primary school in the early-to-mid-'80s I think that they stil use dripolators on aeroplanes. It’s considered the functional equivalent of instant coffee. So no, “standard coffees” are cappuccino or other espresso drinks and have been for some decades. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/90 "2010-01-07T22:28:35Z")
> [@Leiko](#): > > Washingtonian nitpick time: I think you mean Pike Place, not Pike’s Peak. Starbucks started as a tea, coffee, and spice shop at Pike Place Market, then shifted into a coffeehouse role, so one of their main roasts is the “Pike Place.” Sorry. I know it was Pike-something, and my memories of Colorado probably cross-wired my brain when I posted. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/91 "2010-01-07T22:45:29Z")
Well that is interesting. I never realized that our US cousins were talking about drip filtered coffee when they discussed it. I assumed that it was like here, you only have drip filter if it’s help yourself at a breakfast buffet or a tea break at a conference. I have never paid separately for drip filter coffee in my life although I’ve drunk plenty. ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/92 "2010-01-07T22:47:27Z")
Pending the new thread:[Why Do Americans Voluntarily Drink Dripolator Coffee?](http://not.really.but.it's.a.valid.question) ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/93 "2010-01-07T22:49:27Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > Do Americans consider filter coffee “coffee” and the other types such as lattes, cappuccinos, flat whites, expressos as “gourmet” or “foreign” or “special” coffee? If so, it may explain the Starbucks situation. I wouldn’t say “gourmet” (since that could include some uncommon but well-regarded bean varieties like kona, Yemenese and Ethiopian, or organic fair-trade free-range coffee hand-picked bean by bean by vegan Colombian beauty pageant winners) or “foreign” (since most coffee in the US is roasted in the country, but the beans are imported, excepting kona from Hawaii, and I think some other varieties from the US Virgin Islands). At a coffee house I frequent, there’s two categories on the menu: - Coffee, tea and hot chocolate. That includes … well, drip/filter coffee of any variety of bean, most teas, and hot chocolate. - Specialty coffee: cappuccino, lattes, mochas, etc. Basically, stuff dispensed by a loud machine and/or a complicated order. (Starbucks is infamous in the US for [customers that place very complicated orders](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=303919). Very complex orders comprise the infamous “$5 cup of coffee”.) ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/94 "2010-01-07T22:52:33Z")
One of the reasons that Americans have an international reputation for bad coffee is that they’ll tolerate _robusta_ beans, whereas anywhere else they’re considered only fit for instant coffee mixes. Needless to say, the _arabica_ variety that’s more common everywhere else are more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/95 "2010-01-08T01:32:46Z")
> [@mecaenas](#): > > Is “filter” coffee the stuff I see in American movies where the waitress has a glass pot and refills peoples’ mugs right at the table? As others have said. yes. IME, and especially very early in the morning, it’s not uncommon at some truck stop diners for the waitress to give you coffee before you even place your order. Clean mugs are already on the set table; if she’s making her refill rounds with the pot, she’ll pour you a mug without you even asking. Then she’ll return to take your order. > [@](#): > > I can’t think of anyone I know who drinks filter coffee.. it’s either nothing, instant or lattes and caps. At any place I’ve worked it’s either been only instant or instant and a coffee machine that takes & grinds beans or satchels. The only place I’ve seen it frequently is in hotels.. where coffee is notoriously burnt, too hot and generally shiat. Well, you know us North American Dopers, so you do know folks who drink filter coffee. 🙂 You may be interested in the back-and-forth between the Australians and the North Americans in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=545392). ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/96 "2010-01-08T01:45:28Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > [QUOTE=mecaenas] > I can’t think of anyone I know who drinks filter coffee.. Well, you know us North American Dopers, so you do know folks who drink filter coffee. 🙂 [/QUOTE] He means he’s not willing to admit that he knows anyone who drinks filter coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/97 "2010-01-08T04:13:36Z")
> [@BigNik](#): > > He means he’s not willing to admit that he knows anyone who drinks filter coffee. I think he’s saying it’s pretty difficult to get here anyway, too. I mean, you’ve pretty much got to make it yourself unless you live next door to a McDonalds or one of the few Starbucks still operating, after all. ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/98 "2010-01-08T04:18:49Z")
I know that people can get wooshed by low-fliers, but surely that one was taxiing, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/99 "2010-01-08T04:23:21Z")
> [@BigNik](#): > > I know that people can get wooshed by low-fliers, but surely that one was taxiing, wasn’t it? Or perhaps it’s one of those post-modern double-whooshes you may have heard so much about. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735/100 "2010-01-08T04:30:54Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I think he’s saying it’s pretty difficult to get here anyway, too… **Martini** , should you ever make it to my neck of the woods, I’d be happy to stand you to a classic filter-drip North American cuppa joe. In fact, I’ll make it myself. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-24-hour-diners-taken-off-in-australia-the-way-they-have-in-the-us/523735.md?page=6)