# Why haven't E-readers advanced like other tech? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 23, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842 "2020-01-23T13:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/61 "2020-01-25T13:50:14Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I think there is another important factor: the E Ink Corporation owns the patent for the e-Ink displays, and effectively has a monopoly on this type of display. Here are [three](https://www.pervasivedisplays.com/) [more](https://www.clearinkdisplays.com/) [manufacturers](https://plasticlogic.com/). [A good compilation of news articles on the tech](https://goodereader.com/blog/category/e-paper). [This](https://globalsources.com/gsol/I/E-paper-display-suppliers/s/2000000003844/3000000214391/35138.htm) is interesting–see how bigly the price jumps as display size increases? 2 or 3 inch display? Around 5 to 10 bucks. 8 inch display? Around 80 to 100. 13.3 inch? 350. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/62 "2020-01-25T14:26:46Z")
The biggest e-book manufacturers in the US (Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble) all sell e-books as well. The e-books sell for less than a physical book, and they’re probably trying to recoup their costs by selling e-readers at a high price. All require you to set up an account with the manufacturer to use the device. All try to get you to buy only from them as well. Without sideloading through Adobe or Calibre, I don’t know how I could read an e-book from another website and put that on an Amazon Kindle, Kobo, or B&N Nook device. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/63 "2020-01-25T14:37:38Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Here are [three](https://www.pervasivedisplays.com/) [more](https://www.clearinkdisplays.com/) [manufacturers](https://plasticlogic.com/). Pervasive Displays manufactures displays under a [partnership](https://www.pervasivedisplays.com/e-ink-corp-and-chilin-technology-corporation-announce-joint-partnership/) with E Ink. As far as I know, the other two are still not used on any commercially available consumer devices. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/64 "2020-01-25T14:40:41Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [This](https://globalsources.com/gsol/I/E-paper-display-suppliers/s/2000000003844/3000000214391/35138.htm) is interesting–see how bigly the price jumps as display size increases? 2 or 3 inch display? Around 5 to 10 bucks. 8 inch display? Around 80 to 100. 13.3 inch? 350. My takeaway from that data is that these displays are ~$2 per square inch regardless of size. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/65 "2020-01-25T15:13:21Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > … > All require you to set up an account with the manufacturer to use the device. … I don’t know about Kindle but I have had a Nook and now use a Kobo and have never set up an account on either – you can, but you don’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/66 "2020-01-25T17:05:59Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > The biggest e-book manufacturers in the US (Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble) all sell e-books as well. The e-books sell for less than a physical book, and they’re probably trying to recoup their costs by selling e-readers at a high price. > > All require you to set up an account with the manufacturer to use the device. All try to get you to buy only from them as well. Without sideloading through Adobe or Calibre, I don’t know how I could read an e-book from another website and put that on an Amazon Kindle, Kobo, or B&N Nook device. Actually, the opposite price-wise often happens in the media devices world. They sell a lot of their low end products for below cost. The famous Amazon 7" Fire tablet is list price $50. It routinely sells for $40 and on special days even [less](https://camelcamelcamel.com/Fire-Tablet-display-16-GB/product/B07FKR6KXF). At the low range Amazon is losing money on these. It’s like the old razor-and-blade model. Sell the device cheap and hope to make it back on selling content. As for registering. In the last few days I “registered” two Nooks (Simple Touch and Color) that I got in an auction lot of tablets. Used fake name and email address. I have not once downloaded anything from Barnes & Noble on my old Simple Touch or Color HD. (In fact both of those were rooted and had Cyanogenmod OS installed on them.) **Mrs. FtG** ’s Kindle has never been used to get books from Amazon. All library and such. That’s right, we borrow books from the library to read on a Kindle. It’s easy to do but for the clueless folks our library has a guide on how to do this on the leading brands. This is not magic. (BTW, you can install the Kindle Reader app on Nooks if you are so inclined.) There is no lock in. I repeat. _No_ lock in. As to “few sales”. Come on. Yeah, not as many as smart phones but still in _far_ enough numbers that prices should decline more while capabilities go up. The TI calculator thing is an effective monopoly. Schools have standardized on it, students have to use it, TI charges what it can get away with. While Amazon has the lion’s share of the E-reader market, it’s not so absolutely dominant. ---
**Author:** ![tastysandwiches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@tastysandwiches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tastysandwiches)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/67 "2020-01-26T17:54:50Z")
The answer is simple economics. What drives prices down over time? Competition. For the majority of eReader purchases today, there is no meaningful competition. Most people in the market for a dedicated eReader already own a library of ebooks tied to one platform or another, either from their precious eReader or from phone/tablet apps. Switching to a competitor means losing that library. Say my Kindle dies and I see that the Kobo costs $50 less than the feature equivalent Kindle. That’s irrelevant, because I’d lose access to my $500 worth of ebooks. No competition means no drive to improve. Now, there are ways to strip the DRM from ebooks and transfer them to another eReader. I’ve done this, and probably won’t buy another Kindle, but I can’t imagine there are a lot of us in that little chunk of the Venn diagram where technical aptitude, philosophical opposition to DRM, philosophical opposition to copyright infringement/piracy, and willingness to be inconvenienced overlap. ---
**Author:** ![tastysandwiches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@tastysandwiches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tastysandwiches)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/68 "2020-01-26T18:03:00Z")
And no, you can’t install the Kindle app on a Nook _eReader_. You can install the Kindle app on a Nook branded _tablet_, because it’s an android tablet with more ebook oriented marketing. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/69 "2020-01-27T18:17:19Z")
My Nook Simple Touch E-reader is an Android tablet. Runs 2.2 or some such. (Yeah, it’s that old.) From [here](https://goodereader.com/blog/reviews/barnes-and-noble-nook-glowlight-plus-7-8-review) regarding B&N’s newest E-reader: “Barnes and Noble is using Google Android for the OS and this is the way it has been since the very first Nook.” B&N used to have it’s own app store but gave that up since people were just installing stuff from Google anyway. And the Kindle reader app was and still is [available](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.amazon.kindle&hl=en_US) on the Google store. (The amount of misinformation that keeps getting posted here about these devices is amazing.) Yeah, there are _other_ things that sell in larger quantity, but that doesn’t mean a lot. Clearly _these_ things sell in significant numbers that costs should have come down (and features gone up). It just seems to be a “this is what the consumers accept” thing. Anyway, I’ve ordered a “refurbished” Kindle Oasis 8th Gen from a person online who apparently sells a lot of these. I’m not too concerned about the age of it as you can tell by my current E-reader being quite old. I usually keep these things going. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![tastysandwiches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@tastysandwiches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tastysandwiches)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/70 "2020-01-27T19:11:20Z")
Ok, I’ll confess I don’t have a Nook. I’m only going by what I’ve read online. Are you saying that I can buy an e-ink Nook and just start installing Play store apps? No hacking, rooting, modding or sideloading? And the Kindle app will be properly optimized for e-ink, not give the tablet UI that’s expecting a quick, responsive LCD? If so, I may be in the market for a new eReader after all… ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/71 "2020-01-27T22:18:23Z")
The Nook Simple Touch E-reader is an Android device but it is **not** a tablet. You can not install apps on it. You can install the Kindle reader app on a tablet. ---
**Author:** ![GMANCANADA](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gmancanada/32/2837_2.png) [@GMANCANADA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GMANCANADA)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/72 "2020-01-28T03:55:28Z")
fog > [@](#): > > Yeah, there are other things that sell in larger quantity, but that doesn’t mean a lot… Wrong - That means **everything**. Please read my previous post. That is basic capitalist economics. > [@](#): > > Clearly these things sell in significant numbers that costs should have come down (and features gone up) No, they clearly don’t. What may seem like “significant” to you is obviously not significant to the tech companies that manufacture (or could manufacture) these products. If it were, they would offer new innovative features and the price would come down. That is basic capitalist ecomonics. You asked for the economic reason previously, That’s it, plain and simple. You don’t seem to want accept that. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/73 "2020-01-28T08:12:52Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > The Nook Simple Touch E-reader is an Android device but it is **not** a tablet. You can not install apps on it. [Not so, Daddyo](http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1829426). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/74 "2020-01-28T09:26:38Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It’s like graphing calculators. The TI-84 is still [$100](https://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-TI-84-Graphics-Calculator/dp/B0001EMM0G/ref=sxin_7_osp59-874887a7_cov?ascsubtag=874887a7-fa93-422a-9c49-a754187f2447&creativeASIN=B0001EMM0G&cv_ct_cx=ti-89&cv_ct_id=amzn1.osp.874887a7-fa93-422a-9c49-a754187f2447&cv_ct_pg=search&cv_ct_wn=osp-search&keywords=ti-89&linkCode=oas&pd_rd_i=B0001EMM0G&pd_rd_r=989a86e6-0eaf-4160-9449-1401fdda2f02&pd_rd_w=u9sBr&pd_rd_wg=NjRIT&pf_rd_p=eb3e5cda-5ec9-4d94-919d-310a5d641b8b&pf_rd_r=REPY39CJ92HA7GB3BSRV&qid=1579954828&sr=1-1-32a32192-7547-4d9b-b4f8-fe31bfe05040&tag=tbonsite-20). It was $100 thirty years ago. It hasn’t changed much at all. It’s a small market, the current product pretty much does everything the market wants, there isn’t much competition. So they keep churning them out and selling them at the same price. > > ETA: Technically, the TI-84 has only been out for twenty years. But it’s not a huge leap in functionality from the TIs we used in the 90s, and they were around $100 too. While they do have lower demand, the bigger reason for TI’s lack of innovation is their successful vendor lock in with their target market: schools. They aren’t just used in classrooms like other calculators. The textbooks are built around TI calculators. Teachers were trained on TI calculators. Standardized testing only allows TI calculators (or basic calculators). Competitors have tried and failed to innovate in that space–I remember a cheap HP graphing calculator I got but couldn’t use well in school back in the early 2000s. TI has only recently added color (with the TI-84 Plus CE), and I think that was just to get schools to have a reason to buy new instead of continuing to use their old stock. And I could have chosen a color calculator back when I got my HP! Amazon also has a lock-in of sorts, but in a different way. They have a lock-in on the standard e-book format. In particular, they control the DRM. If they don’t want you to have the ability to handle Kindle format books, they can lock you out. Sure, they’ll let people read books on their PC, Android, or Apple device, but they don’t have any reason to allow a competing e-reader to use it. Now, sure, both Google and Apple have their own book stores with their own format of books. But they never got into the e-reader space. They added e-books on top of their existing businesses. Amazon, on the other hand, started as a book-selling company, and got in on e-readers when they were new. They had the built-in audience for it–people who might like a single-purpose device for reading books. And, unlike calculators, e-readers don’t just use parts used in everything else. The big difference is that e-ink screen. So it makes sense that a company that doesn’t already use them doesn’t want to bother, given the low demand. The devices linked all seem to be even more niche than e-readers, and thus can get away with higher prices. I could see Amazon not seeing those as competing with Kindle, and allowing them to open the Kindle format. I also know of a few devices that run Android with an e-ink screen, which gives them access to the Kindle Android app. But none really compete with the Kindle itself at its level–they’re always more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/75 "2020-01-28T14:43:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Amazon also has a lock-in of sorts, but in a different way. They have a lock-in on the standard e-book format. Actually, they ignore the standard e-book format. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/76 "2020-01-28T19:18:46Z")
Not sure Amazon can lock people out… You can download Calibre which not only converts between (unlocked) ebook formats, but also functions as a reader for a number of formats. You can find a number of books available in non-DRM format. I have studiously avoided paying for books that don’t give me complete control over what I’ve bought. (Another use for Calibre is to convert PDF books to mobi or other ebook formats.) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/77 "2020-01-28T22:01:57Z")
> [@tastysandwiches](#): > > Ok, I’ll confess I don’t have a Nook. I’m only going by what I’ve read online. Are you saying that I can buy an e-ink Nook and just start installing Play store apps? No hacking, rooting, modding or sideloading? And the Kindle app will be properly optimized for e-ink, not give the tablet UI that’s expecting a quick, responsive LCD? > > If so, I may be in the market for a new eReader after all… Apps on an E-ink device (regardless of brand) are a mixed bag. That they are black and white and slow handicaps things quite a bit. Examples: I like to install Open Sudoku on my tablets. On a Nook Simple Touch the “coloring” is shades of gray which makes it hard to distinguish given cells from filled in ones, for example. But it is playable. I have tried out Opera mini on my Simple Touch. It works on some sites, for example the SDMB. But is really, really slow. If the app is B&W oriented, doesn’t demand a lot of resources, etc. and runs on the tablet’s version of Android, it just might work. Like I said, newer versions of Nooks are setup to connect to Google Play Store out of the box. So that works just like any other tablet. And yes, that really, really, really means you can install other reading software on a Nook. JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TABLET. (Come one folks, this is the Dope here. STOP repeating blatantly false information. Got that, **Turble**?) For example, I have FBReader installed on my Simple Touch. And that’s an ooooold device. Which means that a lot of junk being posted here has been provably false for about 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![tastysandwiches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@tastysandwiches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tastysandwiches)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/78 "2020-01-29T13:43:38Z")
Can you provide any evidence for the claim that new Nook eReaders support the Play store out of the box? Because I can’t find anything to corroborate that, and it just doesn’t make sense to include an app store where most of the apps will be somewhere between non-optimized and unusable, and will directly reduce the device’s profitability by making it easy to buy books from other stores. Again, I mean e-ink devices, _not_ tablets - yes, nook tablets support the Play store. It would really help cut down on confusion here if you stopped conflating the two. The Nook Glowlight, with its B&W e-ink display, is an eReader. I still don’t believe it supports the Play store without tomfoolery. The Nook HD, with its colour LCD display, is a tablet. I stipulate that it supports the Play store. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/79 "2020-01-30T08:31:43Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > … > One of the restrictions is access to books. Kindle, for example, locked me into their store. I could send other .MOBI files to my library, but it was on their store. … There is a trend (from some publishers anyway) to sell ebooks without DRM. Then you import it into Calibre and convert it to whatever format (MOBI, EPUB etc.). Calibre also does a nice job of managing your library and sideloading the books onto your device. For books with DRM, well, do some googling. 'nuff said. Me, I strongly prefer my Paperwhite to my phone for reading. It’s about the size of a hardback book. Yes, it doesn’t fit in my pocket the same way the phone does, but neither would a regular book - and i’ve literally got thousands of books on hand at any time. I misplaced it about 2 months ago - no clue WHERE it’s gotten to, though I know it’s in the house - and I miss it every day. The phone works - but it is not as good. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842/80 "2020-01-30T12:28:39Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > My Nook Simple Touch E-reader is an Android tablet. Runs 2.2 or some such. (Yeah, it’s that old.) > > From [here](https://goodereader.com/blog/reviews/barnes-and-noble-nook-glowlight-plus-7-8-review) regarding B&N’s newest E-reader: > > “Barnes and Noble is using Google Android for the OS and this is the way it has been since the very first Nook.” > > B&N used to have it’s own app store but gave that up since people were just installing stuff from Google anyway. Yes it’s true that the Nook e-reader software is based on Android. And if you use one of several [rooting](https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2040351) [kits](https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1343143) available, you can hack the device to make it run a standard version of Android. I can’t find any confirmation that later Nook e-Ink devices have standard Android, or have access to the Google Play Store, straight out of the box. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-e-readers-advanced-like-other-tech/846842.md?page=5)