# Why haven't these liberal things been banned? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 2, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934 "2010-08-02T21:19:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/141 "2010-08-03T21:27:35Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > Conservatives on average are more likely to believe things that are factually incorrect, as various studies have shown. As the joke goes, reality has a liberal bias; conservatives are inevitably wrong about more things than non-conservatives because their worldview demands that they believe things that are wrong. > > :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: > > Yeah, yeah, we’ve heard your mantra before. It’s still as bigotted as anything Fred Phelps does, and equally annoying. Don’t be ridiculous, there’s no equivalence between hating a political position for what it stands for and hating people who happen to be born a certain way and aren’t hurting anyone. And stomping your feet and pouting won’t make conservatives any less ignorant or any less wrong. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/142 "2010-08-03T21:28:36Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > … For instance, I bet SA knew but chose to ignore that the mine owners often hired gun men (pinkertons and others) to KILL miners and local sheriffs who opposed them. … And it’s not like this is part of the “secret history” of America. You could just, say, watch John Sayles’ film about the [Matewan Massacre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Matewan), [_Matewan_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matewan) and at least have a clue about this horrific bit of US history. :smack: CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/143 "2010-08-03T21:55:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: > > > > Yeah, yeah, we’ve heard your mantra before. It’s still as bigotted as anything Fred Phelps does, and equally annoying. > > Don’t be ridiculous, there’s no equivalence between hating a political position for what it stands for and hating people who happen to be born a certain way and aren’t hurting anyone. > > And stomping your feet and pouting won’t make conservatives any less ignorant or any less wrong. Whatever you say, Fred. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/144 "2010-08-03T22:10:33Z")
> [@bullrun](#): > > Yes..I have a degree in Secondary Education-History, and a minor in Political Science. I wonder who the hell gave him _that_ - the University of Ellipses International? A lot of trolls seem to have gone there. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/145 "2010-08-03T22:31:11Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@SteveG1](#): > > > > … For instance, I bet SA knew but chose to ignore that the mine owners often hired gun men (pinkertons and others) to KILL miners and local sheriffs who opposed them. … > > And it’s not like this is part of the “secret history” of America. > > You could just, say, watch John Sayles’ film about the [Matewan Massacre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Matewan), [_Matewan_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matewan) and at least have a clue about this horrific bit of US history. :smack: > > CMC fnord! So this is your justification for all the beatings, intimidation and union fund raiding that has gone on nationwide ever since? Only someone predisposed toward unions in the first place would find this episode horrific for the miners. The miners go on strike. They, in time-honored union tradition, attack and beat up black people coming in (one can only imagine the number of n-words flying around) to fulfill their jobs. Some miners get evicted from their presumably mine-owned homes. Miners and their supporters then seek out and attack the Baldwin-Felts detectives (the evictors - presumably acting under force of law) as they make their way to the train depot after having eaten dinner at the local hotel, with the result that almost twice as many detectives get killed as miners/supporters, and to you this is justification for all the evils that labor unions have foist upon its members and damn-well-ought-to-be members since then? Utterly ridiculous! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/146 "2010-08-03T22:34:10Z")
And what the hell…let’s make the voting test include basic knowledge as well. I’d love to see things like mathematics, science, geography, literature, and world philosophies on there. I say if you can’t be bothered to learn about the world you inhabit, you have no business voting. The Republicans would get **crushed**. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/147 "2010-08-03T22:34:24Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > Don’t be ridiculous, there’s no equivalence between hating a political position for what it stands for and hating people who happen to be born a certain way and aren’t hurting anyone. > > > > And stomping your feet and pouting won’t make conservatives any less ignorant or any less wrong. > > Whatever you say, Fred. Typical of the Right. You have no good arguments, so instead you try to pretend that arguing with people on a message board is the equivalent of protesting funerals. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/148 "2010-08-04T00:08:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … Only someone predisposed toward unions in the first place would find this episode horrific for the miners. … and to you this is justification for all the evils that labor unions have foist upon its members and damn-well-ought-to-be members since then? Funny, I missed where I said anything like that.:rolleyes: Utterly ridiculous indeed! (But, better one Joe Hill or Big Bill Haywood than one hundred copper bosses. _There once was a union maid, she never was afraid Of goons and ginks and company finks and the deputy sheriffs who made the raid. She went to the union hall when a meeting it was called, And when the Legion boys come 'round She always stood her ground. Oh, you can’t scare me, I’m sticking to the union, I’m sticking to the union, I’m sticking to the union. Oh, you can’t scare me, I’m sticking to the union, I’m sticking to the union 'til the day I die._ I’m betting you think _The Grapes of Wrath_ was a pretty good read, until the Joads arrived at [Weedpatch Camp](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weedpatch_Camp), of course.) > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … Some miners get evicted from their presumably mine-owned homes. … Nothing presumably about it. Have you never heard of “[scrip](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrip)”? _16 Tons_? “I owe my soul to the company store”? CMC fnord! Getting comfortable with Peter King’s dick up your ass yet? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/149 "2010-08-04T01:30:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > > And it’s not like this is part of the “secret history” of America. > > > > You could just, say, watch John Sayles’ film about the [Matewan Massacre](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Matewan), [_Matewan_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matewan) and at least have a clue about this horrific bit of US history. :smack: > > > > CMC fnord! > > So this is your justification for all the beatings, intimidation and union fund raiding that has gone on nationwide ever since? > > Only someone predisposed toward unions in the first place would find this episode horrific for the miners. The miners go on strike. They, in time-honored union tradition, attack and beat up black people coming in (one can only imagine the number of n-words flying around) to fulfill their jobs. Some miners get evicted from their presumably mine-owned homes. Miners and their supporters then seek out and attack the Baldwin-Felts detectives (the evictors - presumably acting under force of law) as they make their way to the train depot after having eaten dinner at the local hotel, with the result that almost twice as many detectives get killed as miners/supporters, and to you this is justification for all the evils that labor unions have foist upon its members and damn-well-ought-to-be members since then? > > Utterly ridiculous! :rolleyes: No, it’s god damn wrong no matter WHO does it. AND the Baldwin-Felts “detectives” were hired killers, nothing more. In fact, they went so far as to gun down the sheriff right on the steps of the court house, while he was unarmed. If there had been no abuses, the unions would have never got a foot hold there. If there had been no violence, the sheriff would have probably never been involved. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/150 "2010-08-04T01:45:33Z")
[http://www.glendale.edu/chaparral/may05/hatfields.htm](http://www.glendale.edu/chaparral/may05/hatfields.htm) > [@](#): > > The John Sayles movie Matewan ends with the historical gunfight between the representatives of the Stone Mountain Mining Company (the hired guns of the Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency) versus the Mayor, the Chief of Police, and assorted citizens of the town of Matewan who were opposing the illegal evictions of striking workers from rentals owned by the Mining Company but which were within the “city” limits of the town. … The mining company and Thomas Felts, understandably grieving for his two dead brothers, sought swift retribution even though there was good reason to think that the evictions leading up to the incident were illegal and that bribes had been paid to Mingo County and Matewan officials to overlook the niceties of the law. … **As Sid Hatfield, his wife, and some companions approached the courthouse, Charles Lively and some other Baldwin-Felts agents were waiting at the top of the steps. When the unsuspecting Hatfield reached the top of the steps, they opened fire. Hit four times, Sid Hatfield fell dead at the courthouse door.** [http://www.matewan.com/History/battle2.htm](http://www.matewan.com/History/battle2.htm) > [@](#): > > In the hills and hollows along the Tug Fork there was no union and the miners and their families lived in an almost feudal society. The coal companies dominated their employees lives. The companies owned the miners homes and required them to buy at the company store. The companies also welded significant clout with politicians, newspapers and the school system. … Roughly three thousand men signed the union’s roster in the spring of 1920. The Matewan community church, a block south of the battle site near the river, was the place where the miners signed their union cards. … The coal operators retaliated with massive firings, harassment, and evictions. … It’s mayor, Cabel Testerman, and it’s police chief, Sid Hatfield, refused to go along with the companies retaliation against the miners. So the companies hired their own enforcers, the notorious Baldwin-Felts detective agency. **The “Baldwin thugs,” as the miners called them, had earned a reputation for brutality in other strikes. This time the coal operators had hired them to evict the newly unionized miners and their wives and children** from the company owned houses. As a result, hundreds of families spent that chilly mountain spring in thin canvass tents with mud floors. … What I’m gonna’ tell you is exactly what my father told me. When they arrived in Matewan and got off the train, they had their satchels with 'em. We called 'em grips back then, they call 'em satchels, suitcases or whatever. But, **they had in those suitcases submachine guns. They called 'em Thompson submachine gun**. Who the FUCK would bring Thompsons, to serve eviction notices to women and children??? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/151 "2010-08-04T03:03:04Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Well, he’s making me appreciate **Starving Artist** a little more. > > Same bullshit, but at least **SA** types better. Rants used to be so much better in the 1950s before the Beatles ruined everything. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/152 "2010-08-04T03:05:02Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Who the FUCK would bring Thompsons, to serve eviction notices to women and children??? I would . . . _sigh_ . . . I’ll be in my bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/153 "2010-08-04T03:10:45Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You really think a randomly selected, garden variety liberal has a better shot at passing such a test, as opposed to someone like…say…me? You aren’t selecting a random sample. You’re selecting a random liberal against you, who (according to you) is smarter than average. Although, if you’re stupid enough to not understand the glaring flaw in your logic, maybe you’re a bit generous with your self-praise. 😃 That said, the test better include Star Trek trivia. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/154 "2010-08-04T03:18:45Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > … That said, the test better include Star Trek trivia. Ay plegli ianectu flaggen, tupep like for stahn… :dubious: ^ Spock smilie CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/155 "2010-08-04T03:23:55Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > … That said, the test better include Star Trek trivia. > > Ay plegli ianectu flaggen, tupep like for stahn… > :dubious: > ^ Spock smilie > > CMC fnord! Only a Comm would sully the Yang creed so casually! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/156 "2010-08-04T03:44:41Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Only a Comm would sully the Yang creed so casually! I can’t decide; (%) FREEDOM! (1) They must apply to everyone or they mean nothing! (Q) Kiteo, his eyes closed. CMC fnord! The rest of the Star Trek part of the test will be in Tamarian, right? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/157 "2010-08-04T04:46:48Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > Jim Crow law enforcement > > Mine owners from around 1870 through 1941 and a bit later > > Automobile companies, (particularly Ford) through the 1920s and 1930s > > California farming conglomerates > > > > If you are unaware that every one of those outfits can stand “proudly” next to the unions for intimidation, (and actually suffered far less retribution than unions), then you really need to get out more. > > > > In fact, one can make a good case that the unions learned their intimidation tactics at the hands of American business–and no American business has ever been seriously held accountable for the violence it inflicted. > > This. For instance, I bet SA knew but chose to ignore that the mine owners often hired gun men (pinkertons and others) to KILL miners and local sheriffs who opposed them. Ford hired thugs to randomly terrorize workers, and tried to control EVERY aspect of their lives. California farmers sometimes would work the migrants the entire season and then call immigration on them at the end of the season, rather than pay them. > > Really charming people. Not to mention the company stores where they took back the poor wages they paid. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/158 "2010-08-04T05:56:09Z")
> [@](#): > > pack of liberals “Band of liberals” would be more cromulent usage. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/159 "2010-08-04T06:00:51Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > > [@Oakminster](#): > > > > You really think a randomly selected, garden variety liberal has a better shot at passing such a test, as opposed to someone like…say…me? > > You aren’t selecting a random sample. You’re selecting a random liberal against you, who (according to you) is smarter than average. > > Although, if you’re stupid enough to not understand the glaring flaw in your logic, maybe you’re a bit generous with your self-praise. 😃 But according to\*\* D-T\*\*, all conservatives are idiots. If he’s right, then surely any random liberal could beat me. OR maybe…just maybe…he’s not right at all. Maybe he’s just spewing the same kind of blind hatred Fred Phelps spews. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934/160 "2010-08-04T06:31:12Z")
The OP answers a question I always pondered: What would happen if Jose Saramago had a serious motorcycle accident? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-these-liberal-things-been-banned/548934.md?page=9)