# Why haven't they been able to make a good city sim game in the past 6 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 14, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999 "2009-09-14T03:51:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/1 "2009-09-14T03:51:37Z")
So I’ve been a big fan of the SimCity games since the original SimCity came out in 1989. And for 15 years or so, each version has gotten better and better. Basically because it was a simple, straightforward concept. You plop down plots of industrial, commercial and residential zones, connect them with transportation networks and provide services like schools and hospitals and police that affact the type of people who are willing to move in and the types of jobs they work. And for the most part, each version improved on that concept - more and better types of transportation networks, more detailed graphics, more affects to intuatively tell you if your city was turning into a utopia or a ghetto. But since SimCity 4 came out in 2003, there hasn’t been a good city sim game. Simcity Societies was stupid and incomprehensible. A European company called Mont Cristo tried making a full 3-D game called City Life but it just lacked the character of the SimCity games and felt very unfinished. And I don’t hold much hope for their follow up CitiesXL. So why in this day and age can no one capture the magic of the original SimCity games? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/2 "2009-09-14T03:53:42Z")
There have been whispers about a new Sim City game, but it appears that they’re just that, whispers. Unfortunately, they’re focusing more on The Sims, which is depressing, but understandabel, because that game is a license to print money. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2009, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/3 "2009-09-14T07:14:39Z")
You could look into the Caesar line of games (Caesar 1 to 4, Cleopatra, Zeus, Rise of the Middle Kingdom). They’re a bit less complex than Simcity, and there’s more emphasis on micromanagement rather than ordinances and sweeping changes, but the later ones are great IMO, starting with Cleopatra which added roadblocks to direct the flow of walkers and great monuments to build. The last one, Rise of the Middle Kingdom, is probably the most interesting and challenging thanks to the Feng Shui mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/4 "2009-09-15T01:12:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You could look into the Caesar line of games (Caesar 1 to 4, Cleopatra, Zeus, Rise of the Middle Kingdom). They’re a bit less complex than Simcity, and there’s more emphasis on micromanagement rather than ordinances and sweeping changes, but the later ones are great IMO, starting with Cleopatra which added roadblocks to direct the flow of walkers and great monuments to build. > The last one, Rise of the Middle Kingdom, is probably the most interesting and challenging thanks to the Feng Shui mechanic. I’m really more into the modern city games. Not a city sim per se, but Tropico 3 looks pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/5 "2009-09-15T01:44:47Z")
What would you add to SimCity 4 that it lacked? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/6 "2009-09-15T02:10:24Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > What would you add to SimCity 4 that it lacked? SC4 was a great game but its 6 years old and looks it. Like most SimCity 4 fans, I think really the only thing I would change is to loose the grid allowing curved roads and roads and zones on any angle. And I would also lose the isometric view and go full 3D. The Monte Cristo games do this but they do not do it well. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/7 "2009-09-15T02:22:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You could look into the Caesar line of games (Caesar 1 to 4, Cleopatra, Zeus, Rise of the Middle Kingdom). They’re a bit less complex than Simcity, and there’s more emphasis on micromanagement rather than ordinances and sweeping changes, but the later ones are great IMO, starting with Cleopatra which added roadblocks to direct the flow of walkers and great monuments to build. > The last one, Rise of the Middle Kingdom, is probably the most interesting and challenging thanks to the Feng Shui mechanic. I would be thrilled if there was a new game in the Impression Games city building line-up. I love them all, but they really nailed it with Emperor:RotMK. I’d like to see what could be done with the even better technology of today. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolas\_Bourbaki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecc23a/32.png) [@Nicolas\_Bourbaki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicolas_Bourbaki)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/8 "2009-09-15T05:08:35Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > SC4 was a great game but its 6 years old and looks it. Like most SimCity 4 fans, I think really the only thing I would change is to loose the grid allowing curved roads and roads and zones on any angle. And I would also lose the isometric view and go full 3D. I was just reading a [blog post](http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1195) on Cities XL. The blogger isn’t as funny as he thinks he is, but it sounds as hardcore as SimCity 4 and the screenshots indicate it has all those things you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/9 "2009-09-15T05:13:51Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > What would you add to SimCity 4 that it lacked? SimCity4 was awesome for it’s time, but there is sooo much that can be added to form SimCity 5: Curved roads, zones, borders, etc…, weather, flowing water that reacts to gravity, full 3D viewing, custom street/intersection/freeway tools, MMO functionality were you buy/sell resources with neighbors and form economic alliances/blocs, etc… There’s so much that can be added. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/10 "2009-09-15T15:24:19Z")
> [@Nicolas\_Bourbaki](#): > > I was just reading a [blog post](http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1195) on Cities XL. The blogger isn’t as funny as he thinks he is, but it sounds as hardcore as SimCity 4 and the screenshots indicate it has all those things you mentioned. That’s the big question. I’ve heard mixed reviews so I’m going to have to give it about a month after the release to render my final judgement. SC4 I could have just played for days straight. A minor complaint, but I miss the quirky “Sims” style of the SimCity games. ---
**Author:** ![Postariti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Postariti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Postariti)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/11 "2009-09-16T03:34:53Z")
The Sim City franchise is owned by Electronic Arts now. They are notorious for trying to squeeze out product with as few programmers as possible, which really reduces quality. They also don’t seem to “get” sim type games. Many players were displeased with Sims 3. EA made the strange move of hiring someone admitted he didn’t understand or like The Sims to head the team. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/12 "2009-11-06T00:07:37Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Not a city sim per se, but Tropico 3 looks pretty cool. Yeah, much improved over the original (there’s a demo on Steam). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-havent-they-been-able-to-make-a-good-city-sim-game-in-the-past-6-years/509999/13 "2009-11-08T04:21:52Z")
Sim City was actually a case study in an engineering usability book I have. They’re tried full 3D before, and some of the other features. The problem is that it’s really hard to get the usability right when add more levels of complexity. It becomes harder to navigate, harder to build things, harder to see everything, etc. There have been a lot of failed Sim City attempts, both before Sim City 4 and after. Taking it any farther is apparently just very hard to do.