# Why Hitler “succeeded” and Trump has already failed **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 12, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533 "2025-06-12T17:24:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/41 "2025-06-12T19:41:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > …all the way to the grave? The time to do all this assessing was before his first term, and what is going on now brings a whole new meaning to “analyzing something to death”. I don’t really get what you mean. We are in a war against fascism in the US that didn’t begin with Trump, though he is the apotheosis of it. And we will need to continue to fight it even after he is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/42 "2025-06-12T19:42:49Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Trump’s ultimate goal is simply to have people talking about him. He doesn’t have any strong political desires past that. Right, and I think he wants some sort of “legacy,” but he’s too ignorant and stupid to do anything that might work, tariffs being a good example of a dumb initiative. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/43 "2025-06-12T19:45:58Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Also agreed. People will counter each thing in turn: “Oh, but Trump will just cancel the 2026 election!” Mmkay, but mightn’t that trigger a revolution or a military coup? But that works in their favor as well. The P2025 people are seeking to entirely replace the US government with their version. Step one of that plan is to demolish as much of the current government as they can. They got a free head start by winning the election, and have made a good start on neutering a lot of the government. But that effort may fail, if the courts and Congress get their shit together. But a nice little war? That gives them leave to start just killing the people in the way, and they won’t care about the damage that does to the US as a nation, because damaging the US is their goal. A couple of years of chaos, and people will be much more open to a complete re-write of the Constitution, and the P2025 people think they’ll be the ones coming out on top, and doing that re-write. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/44 "2025-06-12T20:06:15Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > People will counter each thing in turn: “Oh, but Trump will just cancel the 2026 election!” Mmkay, but mightn’t that trigger a revolution or a military coup? No. I really can’t imagine modern Americans doing such a thing no matter how bad things get. They could open up death camps, and people would complain…and then just shuffle in through the gates to their death while blaming the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/45 "2025-06-12T20:14:56Z")
(On whether courts can enforce their rulings) > [@Aeschines](#): > > You know what they are saying these days: TACO (Trump Always Chickens Out). The fact that Abrego García is back in the US says a hell of a lot, IMO. So far, Trump has not ultimately defied a court order. For now, yes, But the giant budget bill that’s under study includes section 70302 to limit federal judges’ ability to hold government officials in contempt. [(details)](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/house-budget-bill-would-gut-federal-courts-ability-enforce-orders) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/46 "2025-06-12T20:19:23Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > But that works in their favor as well. The P2025 people are seeking to entirely replace the US government with their version. The thing is, if Trump dies or is deposed, that greatly hurts their cause. No one gives a rat’s ass about P2025 per se, but Deplorables do care about Trump. > [@](#): > > Step one of that plan is to demolish as much of the current government as they can. They got a free head start by winning the election, and have made a good start on neutering a lot of the government. But that effort may fail, if the courts and Congress get their shit together. I’m not convinced that any effort to demolish the government is “succeeding.” They’ve created chaos and probably killed a lot of people overseas by eliminating foreign aid. It’s bad. It’s ugly. But it is also tremendously bad PR and won’t ultimately help them. > [@](#): > > But a nice little war? That gives them leave to start just killing the people in the way, and they won’t care about the damage that does to the US as a nation, because damaging the US is their goal. I think the various actors have different goals. For example, is moron Pete Hegseth jazzed about Project 2025? I doubt it. Would he passively support it? Probably. Trump himself seems only to be indulging the effort, not actively driving it. These guys are not pulling together in harness. > [@](#): > > A couple of years of chaos, and people will be much more open to a complete re-write of the Constitution, and the P2025 people think they’ll be the ones coming out on top, and doing that re-write. The actual P2025 people are wingnut nerds that no one likes and no one sees as leaders. Like all nerds, they probably fantasize a lot–I’ll grant you that. (And no disrespect to nonviolent, nonfascist nerds intended. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/47 "2025-06-12T20:21:32Z")
I don’t see genocidal intentions. These people want money and power. Even Hitler killed a pretty limited number of people before WWII began. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/48 "2025-06-12T20:22:16Z")
I saw that. It sounds like something the courts would be inclined to overturn, lol. Also, I think Trump TACOs not so much because he fears what the courts themselves will do but because of public perception of his actions. Trump may not know what “crossing the Rubicon” means, but he does know by instinct that doing so will be a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/49 "2025-06-12T20:30:33Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I don’t see genocidal intentions. These people want money and power And to kill _everyone_ who isn’t an American white right wing Christian. And enslave women, but only because they can’t kill all women without going extinct themselves. The Right is dominated by white nationalists and evangelicals; the plutocrats who want money and power are a tiny minority. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/50 "2025-06-12T20:39:39Z")
To coin a phrase: Cite? I loathe the Christian right, and since they stand for nothing including their own supposed “faith,” I think that, given the right circumstances, many of them would participate in genocide (as many Germans did). But I don’t think that’s their _goal._ Enslaving women? Yeah, well, I’ll give you that one. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/51 "2025-06-12T20:43:34Z")
[quote=“Aeschines, post:50, topic:1019533”]I loathe the Christian right, and since they stand for nothing including their own supposed “faith,” I think that, given the right circumstances, many of them would participate in genocide (as many Germans did). But I don’t think that’s their _goal._ [/quote] That’s been their goal for decades? End the world, go to paradise while the sinners burn, etc. Pence was a known believer in the End Times for a recent example. Reagan was notorious worldwide for his beliefs, for an earlier example. They want omnicide, not mere genocide. The literal end of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/52 "2025-06-12T20:49:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They want omnicide, not mere genocide. The literal end of the world. Not to belabor a point, but cite? There would be polling to demonstrate that such a desire is prevalent among the right in general and Christian nationalists in particular. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a large and idiotic demographic, but I don’t think it helps to misunderstand the enemy during a war. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/53 "2025-06-12T20:53:03Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Not to belabor a point, but cite? There would be polling to demonstrate that such a desire is prevalent among the right in general and Christian nationalists in particular. I mean, just google “End Times”? Or “Rapture”? You’re basically asking for a cite that the sky is up. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/54 "2025-06-12T20:56:18Z")
Hoping that the world will end isn’t quite the same as planning to end the world. Of course, those just hoping will be happy to sit back and watch the planners succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/55 "2025-06-12T20:59:33Z")
The right is constantly smearing our side as being communist, and we engage in “cultural Marxism,” and all this crap. They don’t really want to understand how many of us believe exactly what; it’s easier for them not to know. I don’t want our side to fall into the same trap. If the right wants genocide to some extent, I want to know what the exact percentage is. Even though I throw invective at Trump and his enablers, I never try to accuse them of doing what they are not doing or believing what they are not believing. I actually try to be fair and accurate. I think this is the best way to deal with even the worst people. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/56 "2025-06-12T20:59:35Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Hoping that the world will end isn’t quite the same as planning to end the world. That doesn’t change that it’s _been_ their national agenda for decades, shaping everything from their support for Israel to their hostility to the environment. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/57 "2025-06-12T21:33:50Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > This is where they risk triggering a revolution or otherwise putting themselves on the losing side of the whole thing. They think pardons or SC-granted “immunity” will save them if worse comes to worst. That’s naive. The fact that they will almost certainly come out of this badly isn’t going to help all the other people who are going to come out of this badly, some of whom already are harmed beyond repair. The USA may also be already harmed, if not beyond long-term repair, beyond any repair most of us will see in our lifetimes. > [@Aeschines](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I’m afraid the USA has lots of fertile soil for fear of the Other. I wish it weren’t so; but it is. > > No disagreement, but I think that Germany was much worse The reason there were so many Jews in Germany in the first place was because Germany had for some time been one of the best, and apparently one of the safest, places in the world to be Jewish. I will say this over and over and over, because apparently it needs to be said over and over and over: the lesson of the German Reich isn’t that there was something uniquely nasty about early 20th century Germany. The lesson is: if it could happen there, it can happen anywhere at all. > [@Aeschines](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > You think that if Trump can still stand up and make some sort of speech he won’t run again, Constitution be damned? > > He can barely do that now. And no, I do not mean that as hyperbole. True. And my mother was clearly, to my recognition, in dementia for several years before the doctors treating her stopped saying she was just fine, nothing to worry about. And they had no particular political, financial, or group-membership reason for not being able to see the problem. Trump may keel over any minute, yes. Or he may keep on like this for many years. > [@Aeschines](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Or else try to cancel the election; probably in the form of “postponing” it for some form of “national emergency.” (We, or at least the North, held elections during the Civil War.) > > He will have had to develop a very strong power base to have any chance at succeeding at that They’re doing their damndest to get him there. Let’s not let him. Saying it’s not possible is all too likely to encourage people to let him. > [@Aeschines](#): > > We are in a war against fascism in the US that didn’t begin with Trump, though he is the apotheosis of it. And we will need to continue to fight it even after he is gone. This is very much true. And not only in the US. > [@Aeschines](#): > > the Christian right, and since they stand for nothing including their own supposed “faith,” I think that, given the right circumstances, many of them would participate in genocide (as many Germans did). But I don’t think that’s their _goal._ Some of them are expecting the Apocalypse at any moment. And some of those are trying to help it along. Not all of them, no. But when you talk about worrying about long-term consequences – do bear in mind that some of them aren’t expecting there to be any. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/58 "2025-06-12T22:09:45Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > The fact that they will almost certainly come out of this badly isn’t going to help all the other people who are going to come out of this badly, some of whom already are harmed beyond repair. I agree. My OP was specifically about whether Trump could take total power, not about whether he will do immense harm. He already has. > [@](#): > > The USA may also be already harmed, if not beyond long-term repair, beyond any repair most of us will see in our lifetimes. IMO, modern governments are obsolete, but we humans don’t know what to do next. So I agree that the USA is beyond repair, but we would be there with or without Trump (I’d still prefer to do without the damage that he specifically is causing, of course). > [@](#): > > The reason there were so many Jews in Germany in the first place was because Germany had for some time been one of the best, and apparently one of the safest, places in the world to be Jewish. Actually, my point was that there were _not_ a lot of Jews in Germany, relatively speaking. Contrast Germany with Poland (per Gemini): " At the start of WWII in September 1939, approximately **3.3 to 3.5 million Jews** lived in Poland. This constituted about 10% of the total Polish population and was the largest Jewish community in Europe at the time." This is why Hitler was able to kill _millions_ of Jews: he invaded east. > [@](#): > > the lesson of the German Reich isn’t that there was something uniquely nasty about early 20th century Germany. The lesson is: if it could happen there, it can happen anywhere at all. I think Trumpism has borne this out, yes. Not so much genocide per se but the distortion of culture and the breakdown of past norms can happen much quicker than people think. I doubt anyone in the 1970s or 1980s would believe that Trumpism were possible. I doubt Trump himself at the time would believe it or really even approve of it (Trump was always toxic, but I do think he became meaner and crazier with age; watching the Trump of the 80s is like watching a totally different person). > [@](#): > > True. And my mother was clearly, to my recognition, in dementia for several years before the doctors treating her stopped saying she was just fine, nothing to worry about. And they had no particular political, financial, or group-membership reason for not being able to see the problem. Right. My mother didn’t have dementia, but she really changed a lot as she aged, and not for the better. I also saw her go from living by herself but falling a bit at the end of 2022 to being in “independent living” in May 2023 to being dead in February 2024 at the age of almost-but-not-quite-82. So not even a year and a half. > [@](#): > > Trump may keel over any minute, yes. Or he may keep on like this for many years. Based on his age alone, that statement is fair, but I try to look carefully and fairly at the issue and take in what expert opinions are available, and my as-objective-as-possible opinion is that Trump would be _very_ lucky to make it to the end of 2026 as president. I mean, he _absolutely_ should not be president right now, but his enablers are going to prop him up, patch him up, and ultimately do some “Biden hidin’” in order to make this regime last as long as possible. I think the posters here tend to view such an opinion as some sort of wishful thinking, and therefore the opposite will necessarily happen. Trump’s gonna run for a third term! Umm, no fucking way. > [@](#): > > They’re doing their damndest to get him there. Let’s not let him. > > Saying it’s not possible is all too likely to encourage people to let him. I don’t think my assessment is the kind of thing to have that effect. > [@](#): > > This is very much true. > > And not only in the US. Right. All this shit is connected. > [@](#): > > Not all of them, no. But when you talk about worrying about long-term consequences – do bear in mind that some of them aren’t expecting there to be any. Yep. The Christian right is one of the biggest problems this country faces, and their toxicity will not end with Trump. The fight against them will be decades long. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/59 "2025-06-12T22:38:49Z")
Imagine that on Nov. 2, 2026 (that’s a Monday) Trump suddenly “discovers” an insurrection in 100 counties that all seem about to elect Democrats and sends National Guard troops to quell the riots and, coincidentally, discourage people from going out to vote. Suppose that in the meantime, SCOTUS has outlawed mail voting, since it didn’t exist in 1787. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/60 "2025-06-12T22:48:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The price of eggs might be a completely trivial matter, true… and yet, somehow, that was enough for people to want to elect a fascist. hint: it’s not about eggs. It’s about how trickle-up capitalism has gutted the working class. And it’s about how equity feels like oppression to the privileged. And it’s about how people who can’t understand how and why their world became so shitty look for someone weaker to blame for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533.md?page=4)