# Why Hitler “succeeded” and Trump has already failed **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 12, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533 "2025-06-12T17:24:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/121 "2025-06-15T21:02:54Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > No, he doesn’t. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of pathological narcissism, and of what motivates Donald Trump in particular. OK. Do you want to amplify? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/122 "2025-06-15T21:30:11Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I keep hearing that the damage Trump et al. are doing will take “decades to repair,” etc., but is that really the case? Yes. Much of the damage is beyond repair, much of the rest involves people who have died or left the country, and rightists who are now embedded in the government. Made worse because it’s a given that the Democrats won’t do more than paper over the damage; actually removing all those Trumpists from government positions would be “violating the norms”, and the Democrats would _literally_\* rather die than do that. * * * \*As demonstrated by their unwillingness to do anything of significance about a literally murderous attack on Congress; on _them._ The _next_ fascist to take power will probably just kill them all right off and be done with it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/123 "2025-06-15T21:37:05Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I keep hearing that the damage Trump et al. are doing will take “decades to repair,” etc., but is that really the case? My guess is that for some specific USAID programs, precisely because they didn’t involve that many people, the damage will more or less require starting from scratch. Hard to do if you’re a dead child. Damn near imposible. The real damage is the USA’s standing in the world. It will take decades for anyone to trust us again. All because of a bunch of morons that voted for Trump. Voted even against their own interests. It’s a “Fool me once” situation. The world does not like that, and is responding by turning to others. Not the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/124 "2025-06-15T21:54:28Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Do you want to amplify? Narcissists feel entitled to approval, or at least submission, but they don’t generally chase it by appeasing people except for sucking up to authority, and in fact they often react to disagreement with dismissal, insults, and threats, a pattern which anyone who has followed the political career of Donald Trump (and even his business career before that) will recognize. Trump has never tried to win broad approval across the political spectrum or be seen as “reaching across the aisle”, and in fact expresses satisfaction for how reviled he is by the ‘libs’ and even mainstream Republicans. He has attacked Democrats and even moderate Republican leaders with viscous insults, threats of legal action and even physical harm, and regularly denigrates a broad swath of Americans, sometimes even his own supporters whom the tells that he doesn’t even need their votes. He literally told the public that he intended to be a dictator (“…only on Day One,” because autocrats routinely give up power once having achieved it), and the entire idea that his “authoritarian impulses” will be reigned in by “his narcissistic desire for approval” has no evidence in view. Trump doesn’t really give a fuck about Project 2025 (and probably doesn’t even really understand it) except that it creates outrage among his opponents, and while he made the politically absurd claim of never having heard of it despite major figures in the architecture of it having come from his first administration he’s happy to let people within his current administration pursue those goals as long as it coincidentally also makes him richer and has greater authority. That he is not an ideologue—and is clearly not managing the day to day functioning of the Oval Office or even mentally cogent much of the time—is actually more worrying because as much as Hitler monomaniacally dominated the leadership of Nazi Germany, he also constantly micromanaged, interfered, and dismissed (and often executed) dissenting figures within the regime which ultimately crippled its ability to achieve its stated aims and ended up scoring more ‘own goals’ than the Allied Powers did early in the war. Would it be that Trump—a terminally inept buffoon who has constantly failed in business and only incidentally succeeded in politics at a time that the public was well conditioned to accept his ‘swamp-draining’ politics—would actually take an active interest in governance he would run his own administration into the ground faster than he doest waterfront casinos in Atlantic City. All of this talk about Trump being ovedone and not capable of dismantling what remains of democratic norms (which, to be honest have been eroded by decades of subterfuge and indifference by both major parties but Trump has taken it to new lows) smacks of all of the claims that he was done after 6 Jan 2021, would never have a voice in American politics again, fur sure could never be re-elected, et cetera, all of which have been fundamentally obtuse to the reality that a substantial number of American voters don’t really care about democracy and have been primed to enthusiastically adopt fascism in the guise of “saving America”. The claim that “a fool like Trump has no chance at all,” is by default wrong from the simple reality that he was, in fact, re-elected after brazenly encouraging an insurrection along with MAGA-compliant Republican majorities in both houses of Congress. For fucks sake, how can anyone look at the last five months and still say, “I could never happen here?” because it is fucking happening in real time. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/125 "2025-06-15T22:14:34Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Narcissists feel entitled to approval, or at least submission, but they don’t generally chase it by appeasing people except for sucking up to authority, and in fact they often react to disagreement with dismissal, insults, and threats, Ah. Yes, I noted that’s what Trump does. Maybe I phrased things poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/126 "2025-06-15T22:14:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Not really. He cares about the approval of his MAGA base but he could give a fuck about Americans in general—especially [minorities and Jews](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/every-moment-donald-trumps-long-complicated-history-race) , [veterans](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-disparaged-u-s-military-casualties-as-losers-suckers-report-says), and [even traditional Republicans](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/04/donald-trump/yes-donald-trump-did-call-john-mccain-loser/), and of course revels in “trolling the libs”. Mostly agree except the “Americans in general” part. I mean, that’s true too in its way, but it’s clear that Trump _does_ care about approval ratings. He wants to be loved _in the aggregate._ Now, he’s stupid and doesn’t calculate well how much he can troll and disrespect various groups (which he definitely enjoys and feeds on) but still retain the love of the majority. > [@](#): > > He’s made a point of demanding performative compliance from business moguls and forcing major D.C. law firms to offer him billions of dollars of _pro bono_ legal work. Yep. > [@](#): > > The notion that Trump will chase approval above all other interests is not remotely borne out in practice. I didn’t say that, but I agree with you. I think Trump is poor at putting all in his head and following an optimal path. He self-indulgently believes that, whatever he does, people will love it, and things will work out. > [@](#): > > It’s not that weird: > [_Tablet_: “The Jews Who Fought for Nazi Germany”](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/ellen-feldman-nazi-germany) Interesting. Will read, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/127 "2025-06-15T22:21:57Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > USA relations with other countries, both with regard to trade and with regard to political alliances, are unlikely to be repaired in our lifetimes – because the problem isn’t only Trump. It’s that we not only elected Trump once (which might have been a fluke based on misunderstandings), we elected him twice. Europe and other places have elected many RWNJs in the past decade, but we tend not to have a resentment toward those countries. I think it will be the same situation. Also, I think people in general and politicians in particular understand that Trump is a once in a century demagogue. We are not going to elect another like him in our lifetimes. Dubya did much, much more damage to the US and the world than Trump has (so far), but other countries did not seem to hold that against us much in the Obama years, etc. Finally, we are not creating more victims in other countries under Trump than we were under other recent presidents, so other countries don’t have any particular reason to resent us or fear us. (Yes, the USAID thing sucks, but that’s a withholding of a good, not an attack. Though it’s evil either way–I get it.) > [@](#): > > So they cannot trust any US policy or support to last for more than four years, no matter who’s elected next time. Because who knows who we’d elect after that? Doesn’t every democracy have this issue? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/128 "2025-06-15T22:30:11Z")
Trump is not another Hitler. But he could end up being another Anton Drexler. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/129 "2025-06-15T22:39:28Z")
I would say he’s somewhere between the two right now. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2025, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/130 "2025-06-15T22:43:03Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > All of this talk about Trump being ovedone and not capable of dismantling what remains of democratic norms (which, to be honest have been eroded by decades of subterfuge and indifference by both major parties but Trump has taken it to new lows) smacks of all of the claims that he was done after 6 Jan 2021, would never have a voice in American politics again, fur sure could never be re-elected, et cetera, all of which have been fundamentally obtuse to the reality that a substantial number of American voters don’t really care about democracy and have been primed to enthusiastically adopt fascism in the guise of “saving America”. It’s a disgrace to our country that he was reelected, but dismantling democracy is a different job than getting elected. Trump has to fight the courts (and has been doing a poor job of that), as well as various seats of Democratic power in the country, such as California and other blue states. > [@](#): > > For fucks sake, how can anyone look at the last five months and still say, “I could never happen here?” because it is fucking happening in real time. So are you advancing the thesis that Trump is succeeding and will ultimately succeed? I don’t see it and will be happy to argue against that further. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/131 "2025-06-16T00:20:16Z")
In my opinion, Trump is failing and the Republicans are succeeding. Trump is not the leader of the Republican party the way that Hitler was the leader of the Nazi party. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/132 "2025-06-16T00:49:29Z")
So who is? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/133 "2025-06-16T01:20:33Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > So who is? Somebody intelligent enough to understand that he doesn’t benefit from being a public figure while he’s setting things in place. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/134 "2025-06-16T01:28:15Z")
Hitler “succeeded” because Germany was an economic shithouse when he the Nazis won federal elections in 1932 and then became chancellor the following year. German democracy was also a fledgling. It wasn’t perceived as institutionally useful in solving Germany’s crises of the Versailles treaty, hyperinflation, and significant unemployment. Then there’s the easy scapegoating of people who had for, oh, about 1000+ years been considered outsiders in their own country, denied citizenship for most of that time. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/135 "2025-06-16T01:28:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In my opinion, Trump is failing and the Republicans are succeeding. I’m not so sure how well they’ll fare after Dear Leader is gone. I don’t think they, collectively, have the power to establish their own permanent control either, nor do I think the current shitshow is going to help them in 2026 (I don’t assume a Blue Wave either, however). > [@](#): > > Trump is not the leader of the Republican party the way that Hitler was the leader of the Nazi party. I think you’re right about that. I think most of the GOP doesn’t like Trump very much and is just going along with him now because, as bad as he is to deal with, they see it as more in their interest to do so than not. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/136 "2025-06-16T01:47:01Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I think you’re right about that. I think most of the GOP doesn’t like Trump very much and is just going along with him now because, as bad as he is to deal with, they see it as more in their interest to do so than not. And that’s because their value system is wealth, power, and domination, which is the same as Trump’s. It’s the same as the American corporation’s value system, and since the American corporation, through its special interest proxies, has taken over the American political system, our political system’s ethos reflects that of the corporation: a fiduciary interest to be as sociopathic as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/137 "2025-06-16T01:52:56Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I’m not so sure how well they’ll fare after Dear Leader is gone. I don’t think they, collectively, have the power to establish their own permanent control either, nor do I think the current shitshow is going to help them in 2026 (I don’t assume a Blue Wave either, however). I’ve said before that I believe part of the Republican plan will involves stabbing Trump in the back. Right now, he serves a purpose. His stupidity keeps public attention focused on him and away from the rest of the Republicans. People talk about how Trump is destroying democracy rather than how the Republicans are destroying democracy. When things are in place, the Republicans won’t need Trump anymore. So they can turn on Trump and express shock and dismay at the terrible things Trump has done. And people will be so happy that the Republicans are finally seeing the light, they won’t notice that it was the Republicans not Trump who was doing all those terrible things. And the magas will get tossed out with Trump. When the Republicans control elections they won’t need the magas anymore. To keep up with the Nazi analogy, they’ll go the same way that Ernst Roehm and the SA went. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/138 "2025-06-16T02:14:25Z")
Basically agree! ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/139 "2025-06-16T02:17:58Z")
You may be correct in terms of their intention, but I don’t think that this crew is going to pull it off! I do agree that they will ditch Trump when convenient. Actually, his croaking would be the easiest thing for them: attend the funeral, say some platitudes and then… Trump? Oh we’re so _beyond_ him now. We’re the _new_ Republican party! Mmm hmm… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/140 "2025-06-16T02:36:28Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > You may be correct in terms of their intention, but I don’t think that this crew is going to pull it off! You think they won’t be able to outsmart Donald Trump? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533.md?page=8)