# Why Hitler “succeeded” and Trump has already failed **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 12, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533 "2025-06-12T17:24:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/161 "2025-06-16T16:34:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Do you really believe Donald Trump could organize a primary challenge? Do you really believe Trump has any knowledge of how a state primary works and who he should be calling to tell them to set up the results he wants? But he doesn’t have to know that, does he? All he has to do is to give his endorsement to an office-seeker, and his blind minions will vote for that person. According to [Ballotpedia](https://ballotpedia.org/Endorsements_by_Donald_Trump), his endorsement success rate is rather spectacular. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/162 "2025-06-16T16:34:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Meanwhile if the Republicans decide to get rid of Trump, they just need to impeach him. They have the majority they need in the House and I don’t feel they would have any difficulty getting the Democrats to vote with them in the Senate. The Republicans could have Trump out of office by this weekend if they wanted. I’m sure that some of them informally game out when and how to flip on the bastard and do just this kind of thing. Once they feel it is in their self-interest to get rid of him, they will. Impeachment, military coup–nothing would surprise me at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/163 "2025-06-16T16:35:21Z")
Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/164 "2025-06-16T16:40:35Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Hitler also joined an existing political organization (the _Deutsche Arbeiterpartei_, DAP) and ended up taking over leadership over objections of some existing members and turning it into an explicitly Germanic pan-natiinalist, anti-Semitic, and ultimately fascist party (literally aping many of the slogans, ideals, and uniforms of the Italian Fascists under Mussolini). True, but that was very early in the party’s history, and it was tiny and obscure when he joined it. The GOP was old and big when Trump came along. > [@](#): > > There are many ways in which Trump is a different kind of demagogue than Hitler was but many of the comparisons being made here to argue against Trump as an effective autocrat are not well-informed, and there are some disturbing parallels between the rise of the Nazi Party in the 1920s and ‘30s and the Republican swing toward MAGA politics in the last decade. Here the age issue is really important. Hitler was only 34 when he led the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923, and he was a seasoned but still young agitator when he took power in 1933. Trump has to do whatever _he_ is going to do rather quickly, as his time is limited. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/165 "2025-06-16T16:49:35Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > You are creating a false dichotomy. While I recognize that there are many situations in between “dedicated advocate of democracy” and “totalitarian dictator,” I made the OP about whether Trump could become the latter, since so many people fear that he can and will become such. I agree that he’s already achieved something terrible and unprecedented in American history. > [@](#): > > Putin 20 years ago had all the means to be lifelong dictator. He just needed to change a few pesky constitutional term limits and now he is nicely on his way to become absolute ruler. He can already attack/defenestrate/imprison anyone who works against him. Yes, and I don’t think Trump will ever get close to this level of power. > [@](#): > > Trump is already in that club. I don’t agree that Trump can literally murder people without consequence. > [@](#): > > The difference between Trump and Hitler is one of degree, not of kind. I agree with that. > [@](#): > > What more tools does Trump lack to be dictator for life? Tools like the SA or SS or ICE are one thing, but compliance is also needed. Hitler had to kiss Hindenburg’s ass until the latter died in 1934, since Hindenburg had sway with the military. It’s not clear at all to me that the military would put up with _anything_ Trump tried to do with his current “tools,” such as ICE, etc. > [@](#): > > Are you sure Vance wil not simply step in those high heels? Vance has no charisma and lacks the mojo to control the political situation. He’d be like Cromwell Jr. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/166 "2025-06-16T16:55:24Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > All of his real power comes through one organization; the Republican party. This means they control him rather than him controlling them. > > Maybe. > > The Republican Party, at this point, has been largely, if not entirely, co-opted by Trump loyalists. Leadership of the Republican National Committee was finally taken over by Trump last year, and the leaders of the party are all hand-picked by Trump. > > Beyond that, as we’ve seen, there are effectively no longer any senior members of the party (Senators, Representatives, Governors) who don’t toe the line on Trump’s dictates and proposals, even if they may put up a token fight when bills are being debated. _ **Thought experiment** _ Considering that three broad groups of federal legislators apparently exist: 1. Democrats 2. Non-MAGA Republicans (secretly or openly) 3. MAGA Republicans Forget “_That will never happen!!_” for a moment. Are there enough, combined, in Groups 1 and 2 to achieve impeachment in the House. IMHO, that’s an easy “yes”. Just counting up people now … I know, I know, “_never happen!_”. I know. Given that … are there 67 Senators in Groups 1 and 2 _right now_? “Secretly” is doing a lot of work, admittedly … but I can readily buy that there are less than 34 hard-line MAGA U.S. senators. Given all that, “The Republican Party” does, in fact, have the power to dispatch of Donald Trump. They do. “_They’ll never do it! Never!_” I know. But they can. And, say the impossible happens and Donald Trump is convicted in the Senate (_“Can’t happen!”_ I know.). What’s his administration’s next move? Is everyone involved quite sure that keeping a convicted Trump in the White House is well within their power? Anyway … that’s how the Republican Party, represented by whatever non-MAGA GOP contigent currently sits in the federal legislative branch, can wrest control back from Donald Trump. “Won’t happen!” I know. Highly _highly_ unlikely things never, ever come to pass. Calculus never changes, things that made political sense yesterday will continue to make political sense in perpetuity. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/167 "2025-06-16T17:17:08Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Given all that, “The Republican Party” does, in fact, have the power to dispatch of Donald Trump. They do. “_They’ll never do it! Never!_” I know. But they can. Sure; never say never. OTOH, only six weeks after the January 6th attack (and many GOP Senators speaking out vehemently against Trump and his role in the attack on that day, and in the days that followed), only seven Republican senators voted to convict him in his second impeachment trial – and that was after he had already left office. _Could_ the Republicans in Congress grow a collective spine, and actually do something to get rid of Trump? Absolutely; I suspect that most of them hate the guy, and want him gone. But, at this point, they are continuously rolling over for him, and making excuses as to why it’s all right for them to do so. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/168 "2025-06-16T18:33:36Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > The GOP was old and big when Trump came along. And had already switched its positions entirely over the time it was in existence. Now it’s done so again, rather faster, to keep Trump and the MAGA crew happy. Is it still the Republican party? Well, it’s got the same name. But if you think it can be counted on to try to keep any of its supposed principles, think again. > [@bordelond](#): > > 1. Democrats > 2. Non-MAGA Republicans (secretly or openly) > 3. MAGA Republicans > > Forget “_That will never happen!!_” for a moment. Are there enough, combined, in Groups 1 and 2 to achieve impeachment in the House. IMHO, that’s an easy “yes”. It’s an utterly obvious no; because, if it were a yes, he’d be impeached already. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/169 "2025-06-16T18:46:00Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Is it still the Republican party? Well, it’s got the same name. But if you think it can be counted on to try to keep any of its supposed principles, think again. > > It’s an utterly obvious no; because, if it were a yes, he’d be impeached already. I feel the Republican party can be counted on to follow its core principle of doing what’s best for the Republican party. And therefore, the day Trump stops being useful to the Republican party, they will kick him out of office. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/170 "2025-06-16T19:03:39Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It’s an utterly obvious no; because, if it were a yes, he’d be impeached already. I wouldn’t expect Non-MAGA Republicans (especially the ones in secret) to be ready to move against Trump presently. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/171 "2025-06-16T19:16:57Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > _Could_ the Republicans in Congress grow a collective spine, and actually do something to get rid of Trump? Absolutely; I suspect that most of them hate the guy, and want him gone. But, at this point, they are continuously rolling over for him, and making excuses as to why it’s all right for them to do so. Most Republicans—even those who want to shrink government, reduce spending, and persecute immigrants—realize how terrible the current capricious tariff regime is, how unpopular the DOGE, Medicaid cuts are, what a mistake it is to fire tens or hundreds of thousands of federal workers with little notice or rationale, and what a bad idea it is to shit on veterans which constitute a significant and vocal polity in their base. And yet, although a few self-made ‘iconoclasts’ have spoken out, none has so much as suggested a mass resistance and taking back their Constitutionally-assigned powers much less proposed impeaching him for the multitude of offenses. They literally voted to accept all of his cabinet picks almost to a member, even ones that were clearly just trolling like RFK Jr and Tulsi Gabbard, and how not one Republican has stood up and said that Howard Lutnick is too conflicted and Scott Bessent to fucking vacuous to run the government management of the economy is beyond reason. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/172 "2025-06-16T19:27:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Right now, we have two possibilities. > > One is that Trump and his inner circle have taken over the Republican party and are really running things. > > The other is that the pre-Trump leaders of the Republican party are still running things from behind the scenes and Trump and his inner circle are only figureheads they are using. > > From the outside, both situations look the same. > > So why do I figure that we’re in the second scenario? Because I find it very implausible that Donald Trump is the political mastermind that the first scenario requires. He doesn’t need to be, since the pre-Trump political leadership spent decades doing it to _themselves._ They decided to build their base out of the bigoted and ignorant, who joined the party and filled it up while driving out everyone else, until they _became_ the party and the old leadership was just a frosting on top of a sea of MAGA. Then Trump showed up and stepped into the Trump-shaped hole they’d built into the party, and took over with basically no effort on _his_ part. And at this point the old leadership has only as much power as MAGA lets them have, because if they old guard tries defying MAGA nothing will happen since everyone they need to work though _is_ MAGA. This is how it always works, whichever party lets in the Southern conservative racist faction into itself ends up being eaten up by them and turned into their puppet. It used to be the Democrats, before the Civil War and for decades after until the 1960s. Then the Civil Rights era convinced them to leave, the Republicans invited them in for votes and while it took 40+ years they’ve finished the process of hollowing out the Republicans and turning them into their new host. The Old Guard aren’t in charge, they are just a remnant clinging to the shell of what _used_ to be their party and grabbing away what scraps they can. Even when Trump dies, MAGA not them will be in control. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/173 "2025-06-16T19:36:55Z")
“Trump-shaped hole” is a funny and accurate phrase that has made me chuckle before. I think you’re _basically_ right, but the thing is… who are the MAGA leaders? Trump, obviously. JD Vance is trying to be so, though I don’t think he has the respect he needs to lead in the future. Other than that, there are certainly a lot of these bastards who have _acquiesced_ to MAGA and seem quite _compatible_ with MAGA (the wretched Josh Hawley springs immediately to mind), but other than a few nutjobs like MTG, Dr. Oz, etc., I see few who _embody_ MAGA. After Trump kicks the bucket, I think it really will be the cliche of all the robots shutting down a la _The Phantom Menace._ No, sadly, they won’t totally lose power, but the red MAGA light will go off, and they will be confused as to what to do next. “Survive! Survive! Get elected and survive!” they will chatter as they glitch, and I think they will find it difficult to find the next brand and posture with which to grift and attack. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/174 "2025-06-16T21:48:08Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > After Trump kicks the bucket, I think it really will be the cliche of all the robots shutting down a la _The Phantom Menace._ No, sadly, they won’t totally lose power, but the red MAGA light will go off, and they will be confused as to what to do next. “Survive! Survive! Get elected and survive!” they will chatter as they glitch, and I think they will find it difficult to find the next brand and posture with which to grift and attack. We shall put this on the shelf with all of your previous predictions about how Trump is fur sure gonna lose bigly, such as: > [@How can Donald Trump win at this point?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-can-donald-trump-win-at-this-point/1005351/3152): > > Here is my prediction, less than two weeks out. Harris wins each of the blue wall states of Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania by about a percent and wins one other state, probably either NC or Georgia. This gets her past 270 even if she were to lose a single blue wall state. > > On election night, PA, being in the eastern time zone, has the potential to be called early and will be a bellwether: > > Solidly for Harris or Trump: That candidate definitely wins. > Mildly for Harris or Trump: That candidate probably wins. > Inconclusive before other swing states are called: Harris probably wins, since she has more paths to victory. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/175 "2025-06-16T22:03:06Z")
So… do you think the GOP pols will _not_ be confused after Trump kicks the bucket? Feel free to share your opinion, as you have several times in the thread so far. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/176 "2025-06-16T22:10:09Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > So… do you think the GOP pols will _not_ be confused after Trump kicks the bucket? I think they will, but it won’t matter since they _already_ have enough of an advantage to be irremovable from power. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/177 "2025-06-16T22:10:16Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > So… do you think the GOP pols will _not_ be confused after Trump kicks the bucket? I think there will be a scrum of people vying for control. I don’t think either Vance or Marco Rubio (who is clearly treading water and waiting for an opportunity that will never happen) are likely to end up in the top position, but then, I never expected the rise of Trump and his ability to cow vocal opponents like Ted Cruz, Rubio, or Vance into being his faithful supplicants. Who knows what new figure will emerge in a power vacuum but I think the expectation that the autocratically-oriented Republican party of the last thirty years is going to dissolve like rice paste in rain is hopeful pleading. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/178 "2025-06-16T22:24:40Z")
Agree about “scrum.” I think losing Trump will be a big blow that causes confusion and a loss of brand and direction, but I don’t think they are just going to go away. They will do their darndest to retool and start grifting again. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/179 "2025-06-16T22:30:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He doesn’t need to be, since the pre-Trump political leadership spent decades doing it to _themselves._ They decided to build their base out of the bigoted and ignorant, who joined the party and filled it up while driving out everyone else, until they _became_ the party and the old leadership was just a frosting on top of a sea of MAGA. Then Trump showed up and stepped into the Trump-shaped hole they’d built into the party, and took over with basically no effort on _his_ part. And at this point the old leadership has only as much power as MAGA lets them have, because if they old guard tries defying MAGA nothing will happen since everyone they need to work though _is_ MAGA. Have you ever met any magas? If they were running the Republican party, we wouldn’t be having our current problems. Because magas are dumb. They may actually be dumber than Trump himself is. If the magas were running the Republican party, then the Democrats would be running the country. The reality is that the magas are running the Republican party the same way the cows are running the farm. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533/180 "2025-06-16T22:34:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Have you ever met any magas? If they were running the Republican party, we wouldn’t be having our current problems. Because magas are dumb. You don’t need to be _smart_ when your opponents refuse to stand up to you. If anything being stupid is a political advantage because Americans admire stupidity and despise intelligence. The only reason proto-MAGA didn’t take over decades ago is because the Democrats could never surrender _hard enough_ to satisfy them; they always wanted _more,_ no matter how much the Democrats gave them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-hitler-succeeded-and-trump-has-already-failed/1019533.md?page=10)