# Why/How did 18th century people have such good handwriting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 17, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753 "2009-03-17T14:44:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/21 "2014-03-28T15:26:17Z")
You know who has horrible handwriting? Zombies, that’s who! ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/22 "2014-03-28T15:28:09Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > How are we disagreeing? > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I generally agree with your point > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > 🙂 > > Just was using your post as a jumping-off point for further discussion. in this discussion you need to be careful to dot your i’s and cross your t’s. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/23 "2014-03-28T15:28:42Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > It has been pointed out already that only a ſmaller number of ſuppoſedly “important” documents are commonly ſeen by many people today, and thoſe tend to have fine penmanſhip; and that documents were ſometimes ſent to a profeſsional ſcribe to be written. > > Of courſe, the authors of a lot of important documents _knew_ they were writing important documents (to-wit: Declaration of Independence; Conſtitution; etc.), and thoſe were certainly going to be profeſsionally inſcribed. And thoſe are the ones commonly diſplayed today. So it’s not exactly a coincidence that we, the hoi polloi, ſee a lot of the moſt finely inſcribed docs. This might be funnier or more pointed if you remembered that it was called the “[medial s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s)” because it never appeared at the beginning of a word (with a few archaic exceptions for you nitpickers). ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/24 "2014-03-28T15:50:20Z")
Apropos of the medial s, this bit from _The United States of America_ by Stan Freburg is pretty funny - relevant reference at about the 2:30 mark. https://www.youtube.com/embed/kCEE9pOkvQU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=RD6EgjwYR4bYU ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/25 "2014-03-28T17:50:14Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This might be funnier or more pointed if you remembered that it was called the “[medial s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s)” because it never appeared at the beginning of a word (with a few archaic exceptions for you nitpickers). No it was called medial s but it never appeared at the end of words. Senegoid used it correctly. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/26 "2014-03-28T17:58:28Z")
My father used to chuckle about the 18th century document on “How to cook a ſuckling pig”… 🙂 I suspect that a lot of people simply ha little or none of the education to write, let alone legibly. By the time you write the equivalent of a book, your penmanship has likely improved quite well through practice. As anyone whose tried fountain pen or clligraphy will attest, it is also difficult to get good results because the nib and the paper misbehave. without practice, you may not lift the nib enouh and will leave trails, get blotches, etc. the other big advantage of typing (on paper or screen) is that you can usually type faster than you can write. This is true with ballpoints - I imagine it was even more true with dipping quill pens, and even more again now that electronics can keep up with your fingers without jamming like the old Underwoods. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/27 "2014-03-28T18:07:02Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > No it was called medial s but it never appeared at the end of words. Senegoid used it correctly. You’re right, I’m wrong. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/28 "2014-03-28T19:07:55Z")
Here’s a page from [Thomas Jefferson’s autobiography](http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj/mtj1/052/0500/0538.jpg), in his own handwriting. It’s legible, but not perfect. He left a lot of t’s uncrossed. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/29 "2014-03-29T00:03:12Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > He left a lot of t’s uncrossed. I walk in the path of greatness. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/30 "2014-03-29T00:18:48Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > My children learn none of this today, and I fully expect by the time they’re in high school they’ll have even less need to write by hand. Well, now they’re in high school 🙂 Aside from work they do in the classroom, I have seen only one high school assignment that one of them was required to write by hand; the others are in Word. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/31 "2014-03-29T00:26:14Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The originals of handwriting for almost every famous figure in history are mostly illegible to anybody but trained experts. I long ago got a historical library summer job where the sole criteria for rating applicants was ability to discern handwriting. You do have to look for words that are written clearly, and compare the letters in them to harder-to-discern parts. But that’s obvious rather than a matter of training. > [@](#): > > Let’s do away with any notion that people in the past were somehow better or different from us. Better? Not on average. Different? You bet. I don’t think 1750 handwriting is radically better or worse than 1950 handwriting. But 2014 handwriting is certain worse than 1950 handwriting, because, as has already been noted, people now have less practice at it. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/32 "2014-03-29T01:10:38Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Not the Declaration of Independance, but here’s a short Wikipedia article on [Jacob Shallus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Shallus), the “Engrosser or Penman of the United States Constitution”. He was paid $30 for the job. Check out Thomas Jefferson’s [draft copy](http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/images/decp1.jpg) – his penmanship was nothing special. Much like many modern writers, he intermixes cursive and block lettering. I like where he tried make UNITED STATES OF AMERICA look fancy and important… in a wandering, uneven way. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/33 "2014-03-29T01:58:42Z")
Scroll down through this page, and look at the handwriting on post cards, [https://www.google.com/search?q=philatelic+postcards+1860s&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=9ic2U7iTLqyisASmvYHYDQ&ved=0CAYQ\_AUoAQ&biw=1118&bih=624&dpr=0.9](https://www.google.com/search?q=philatelic+postcards+1860s&newwindow=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=9ic2U7iTLqyisASmvYHYDQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1118&bih=624&dpr=0.9) Almost without exception, they feature beautiful, graceful handwriting, and they were written by fairly ordinary people – certainly not by professional scribes who wrote documents for a living. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/34 "2014-03-29T02:44:04Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > No it was called medial s but it never appeared at the end of words. Senegoid used it correctly. Dammit. I was going to make a “brainf” joke but of course, this is right. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/35 "2014-03-29T02:46:14Z")
Skill comes in penmanship like anything else: practice, practice, practice. Both its development and its retention. I was probably among the last generation of kids to actually have “penmanship” as a subject in elementary school, in the mid 1970s. In my high school years (early to mid 1980s) I was still allowed to turn in handwritten papers for many classes, though by senior year I was was required to hand in typed or printed (dot matrix) papers for some of them, and all of them in college in the late 1980s/early 1990s. Back then, I was able to handwrite a draft of a 20 page paper, edit it by crossing parts out, then copy 20 pages out all over again in a final form to turn in (with some use of Wite-Out). All in one sitting. Nowadays I can’t handwrite more than two or three sentences - about as much as will fit on an index card - without my hand cramping up. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/36 "2014-03-29T04:51:35Z")
It’s also a general social perception of style as a cultural manifestation of your identity. Just like the architecture of buildings and the ornate clothing that people wore and the furniture in their houses. A high priority was placed on giving the appearance of having style. This has been replaced in recent years by utilitarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/37 "2014-03-29T04:56:05Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > I like where he tried make UNITED STATES OF AMERICA look fancy and important… in a wandering, uneven way. Pretty much how it ended up turning out 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/38 "2014-03-29T05:52:09Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > No it was called medial s but it never appeared at the end of words. Senegoid used it correctly. Thank you. In fact, right from the opening paragraph in **Exapno Mapcase** ’s Wiki link: > [@Wikipedia: Long s](#): > > The long, medial, or descending s (ſ) is a form of the minuscule letter s, which was formerly used where s occurred in the middle or at the beginning of a word (e.g “ſinfulneſs” “sinfulness”). The modern letterform was called the terminal, round, or short s. Note also the rule about a double ss in the middle of a word: > [@](#): > > The double s in the middle of a word was often written with a long s and a short s, as in Miſsiſsippi. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/39 "2014-03-29T06:09:37Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Here’s a page from [Thomas Jefferson’s autobiography](http://memory.loc.gov/master/mss/mtj/mtj1/052/0500/0538.jpg), in his own handwriting. It’s legible, but not perfect. He left a lot of t’s uncrossed. > [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Check out Thomas Jefferson’s [draft copy](http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/images/decp1.jpg) – his penmanship was nothing special. Much like many modern writers, he intermixes cursive and block lettering. I like where he tried make UNITED STATES OF AMERICA look fancy and important… in a wandering, uneven way. Note, though that Jefferson seems not to use the “long ſ” mostly. Although in that page from his autobiography, he uses it in “neceſsary” in the third line. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753/40 "2014-03-29T06:12:31Z")
I saw one of the original copies of the Magna Carta when it was displayed in San Francisco a few years ago. It was in Latin, of course. I could barely make out any of the words or letters, except for a sporadic few here and there. It wasn’t that I don’t know Latin (which I don’t); I just couldn’t make out what very many of the letters were. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-how-did-18th-century-people-have-such-good-handwriting/489753.md?page=3)