# Why I can't just laugh Ann Coulter off **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 8, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320 "2005-04-08T01:04:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/161 "2005-04-12T20:22:49Z")
**manhattan** , you’re asserting that your imagined version of what Gonzalez should have said is what he \*really \* meant. Is that psychic, or just psychotic? Were you “just joshing”, or are you really stupid enough to think that convinces anyone but yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/162 "2005-04-12T20:24:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **manhattan** , you’re asserting that your imagined version of what Gonzalez should have said is what he \*really \* meant. Is that psychic, or just psychotic? Were you “just joshing”, or are you really stupid enough to think that convinces anyone but yourself? [Dude, you’re embarrassing me](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28081-2005Apr5.html). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/163 "2005-04-12T20:25:33Z")
Sigh. I was being droll. **Kaylasdad99** got it. What I “wished” he said is the corrected quote. It’s [what he actually said](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28081-2005Apr5.html). You suck at teh internets. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/164 "2005-04-12T20:27:08Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > You suck at teh internets. Hah hah–but you got pwned by my mad ninjaleet skillz! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/165 "2005-04-12T20:31:00Z")
Thanks, Daniel - amazing how well an experienced pol can spin his own words when given time to think of how to do it, huh? But what he really meant, what the administration’s real attitude is? We’ll see if it’s changed, won’t we? We do have his Torture Is Good memos to start with, and the Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo horrors that followed it. Those don’t get apologist posts because they can’t be apologized for. I know how to spell “the,” though. Not everyone can say the same, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/166 "2005-04-12T20:37:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Thanks, Daniel - amazing how well an experienced pol can spin his own words when given time to think of how to do it, huh? What on earth are you talking about? Do you have a reliable source to show that the original quote is verbatim what Gonzales said? I think the guy is an amoral fucker, too, but I want to think that based on his actual words, not on poor paraphrases of them. Consider carefully who’s spinning what here. > [@](#): > > I know how to spell “the,” though. Not everyone can say the same, apparently. Look, a three-headed monkey! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/167 "2005-04-12T21:06:39Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > What on earth are you talking about? Do you have a reliable source to show that the original quote is verbatim what Gonzales said? I think the guy is an amoral fucker, too, but I want to think that based on his actual words, not on poor paraphrases of them. I apologize for my poor paraphrasing in my first post of this thread. I constructed the quote from my memory of a story in last week’s _Los Angeles Times_. I don’t have a copy of the story on hand, but it was my understanding of the gist of what Mr. Gonzalez said in his testimony, as reported in the paper. I should have been more clear on that when I said it was “attributed” to him. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/168 "2005-04-12T21:07:47Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > To repeat myself for the umpteenth time, the really alarming thing is not so much that Ann Coulter exists and says the things she says, it’s that so many people buy her books, so many people seem to agree with her, T-shirts of her odious quotes are made with no irony… 100% with you so far, **Max**. > [@](#): > > … and so many conservatives here (like the ones in this thread) can’t seem to condemn her without hemming and hawing quite a bit. To be completely fair, I count three of the board’s leading conservative debaters who have in fact done just that: condemned her, without any weasel words. And I’m immensely grateful for their honesty in doing so. > [@](#): > > The only nice thing about this thread is (tempting fate here) at least no one has yet come in and pointed out that Ann Coulter has the constitutional right to say what she does, which is something that usually happens when an author is criticized. She has a First Amendment right to express her opinions, to be sure. But she may not violate laws on libel and slander. In view of the fact that I’m on record as a liberal, I would love to have the funds to retain someone like **Bricker** to institute suit against her, based on her statements in _Treason_, for libel and defamation of character. Unless she can prove that I in fact actively committed the acts defined as treason in the Constitution, she’s libelled me – and Daniel, and **Max** and **Stoid** and **rjung** and hundreds of thousands of others. And she should not profit from it. (Interested in a class-action contingency-fee lawsuit, Rick, at 30% of the award? I’ll bet you we can get a few thousand people who are on record as being liberals and who would welcome the chance to sue Ann Coulter. Even if you only get a $1 per violation token award, it could work out to a hefty bit of change for you! Just one thing: as part of any settlement, she has to publish, at her own expense, in at least 100 media to be selected by us and include World Net Daily, a formal recantation and apology for her libel.) However, la Coulter is not odious in her own right so much as she is symptomatic of the over-the-top-ness of political arguments lately. I’ve said several times that I believe Mr. Bush to be of good intentions, doing the right thing by his own lights. That I think that his intentions and means are morally wrong, divisive, destructive of American freedoms, and several other things, are by the boards – **he** doesn’t. He thinks he’s doing the right thing by America. The same holds for Mr. Cheney, and probably for Mr. Gonzales. Likewise, Sens. Kerry, Kennedy, Clinton, etc., are in fact committed to doing the right thing by **their** lights, and it would be nice to see a conservative say so, with whatever personal reservations about their own views of the senators’ positions they feel compelled to add. We’ve always had vocal idiots on the fringes of politics. But I don’t ever before remember giving them center stage to do their comedy routines at the cost of civil discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/169 "2005-04-12T21:11:16Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I apologize for my poor paraphrasing in my first post of this thread. I don’t fault you for it–I frankly fault myself for not double-checking on it, as I do when someone attributes over-the-top statements to liberals. I shoulda recognized it as a paraphrase. I mostly fault **Elvis** for belligerently arguing the issue long past the point where it was clear that **manhattan** had scored a point. This thread is complaining about a hateful, venom-spewing, slanderous politico. In the course of trashing her, I’d rather not become her. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/170 "2005-04-12T21:37:00Z")
For those interested, it’s worth quoting from _Time’s_ “100 Most Influential People” entry on Ann: > [@](#): > > To Ann Coulter, liberals are worse than wrong; they are traitors out to destroy the American way of life. That view is at the core of her columns, her TV appearances and her best-selling books. But it is not just her perspective that has made Coulter, 43, an icon to her fans and malice incarnate to her critics. It is the way she delivers it—in ferocious, lucid, hyperbolic bursts of invective. > > … Her penchant for the outrageous cost her a perch at MSNBC in 1997 after she told a disabled Vietnam vet, “No wonder you guys lost.” After 9/11, she reacted to Muslims who celebrated the attacks by writing, “We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.” National Review Online soon dropped her syndicated column. > > In her books, Coulter can be erudite and persuasive, as when she exposes the left’s chronic softness on communism. But her signature is her gleeful willingness to taunt liberals and Democrats, to say out loud what some other conservatives dare only think—that Bill Clinton is a “horny hick,” for example, and his wife “pond scum.” It’s what makes Coulter irresistible and influential, whether you like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/171 "2005-04-12T21:55:43Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Now, that might be a problem for liberals, especially if those “other conservative viewpoints” actually ARE reasonable. Actually, that raises an interesting question of what the presence of extreme voices does to the less extreme discourse. For instance, take someone like Fred Phelps. To the credit of conservative Americans everywhere, no one seems to take him seriously. But I wonder if people who are somewhat homophobic look at him, say “ahh, now THAT guys is homophobic”, and then are more comfortable with their own homophobia as they have clear proof that they aren’t all THAT homophobic, compared to old Fred… It’s an interesting issue, although not one that could easily be resolved without some very cleverly constructed sociological experiments. But I digress… ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/172 "2005-04-12T22:00:59Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > To be completely fair, I count three of the board’s leading conservative debaters who have in fact done just that: condemned her, without any weasel words. > > And I’m immensely grateful for their honesty in doing so. As am I. > [@](#): > > She has a First Amendment right to express her opinions, to be sure. But she may not violate laws on libel and slander. I’m pretty sure she has not even come close to violating those laws. If I correctly recall my study of journalism law from high school (go Homestead Epitaph!!!), the burden of guilt is on the accuser to prove libel/slander, and it must be demonstrated that: (a) the statement was false, and (b) the statement caused damage (a) might be doable, but it’s really hard for me to see how we could argue in court that actual provable damage was done to us by the publication of her book. If she wrote a book called “Polycarp is a traitor” specifically about you, and then after it was published you lost your job and people spit on you on the street, and your homeowners’ association kicked you out, THEN you have a case. Besides, we REALLY don’t want to give her that much publicity. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/173 "2005-04-12T22:03:46Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (a) might be doable, but it’s really hard for me to see how we could argue in court that actual provable damage was done to us by the publication of her book. Have you SEEN who got elected? I kid, I kid! Sorta. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/174 "2005-04-13T02:11:15Z")
Having just renounced my Republicanism and all things Republican, I would like to comment in the abstract. Coulter takes bad qualities or behaviors she sees in individuals and applies these qualities as attributes of liberalism. A bigot takes qualites he finds in a person and attributes them to race/creed, or what have you. A bigot also recognizes negative attributes in a selective fashion. A thrifty person is perceived as greedy if he is jewish and just prudent if he is not. The quality is interpreted by the person in questions race/creed. Now, I am not sure how this changes if a person is bigoted against a beleif system as Coulter is. Is the distinction meaningful and Coulter not a bigot because her prejudice applies to the political system and not race/creed? I don’t think so. It’s a distinction without meaning. Coulter is bigoted regardless of what the target of her bigotry is. * * * By the same token one must be careful how one views or interprets Coulter. Do you remember the old commercial where the kid is sitting in the boat with his Grandpa? “What’s Prejudice?” asks the kid. “Why do you want to know?” replies Gramps. “Tommy says I’m prejudice.” “Who’s Tommy” asks gramps. “Tommy’s my jewish friend,” reveals the kid." “Well then you are prejudiced, because you see Tommy as your Jewish friend, and not your friend.” Well, the same thing applies here. If you see Coulter as a symptom of Republicanism, or you think Coulter’s actions reflect on a quality inherent to Republicans, or you see it as unique to Republicans… Then you too, are prejudiced, just like Coulter. Only you don’t make millions of dollars being prejudiced the way she does. The proper way to view Coulter, I believe, is as a pundit. Her tactics are depressingly common and mundane, and her process has nothing to do with her affiliation. ---
**Author:** ![ninetypercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@ninetypercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ninetypercent)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/175 "2005-04-13T02:40:05Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > In [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6029912&postcount=3), **Maud’Dib** asks why liberals are so bothered by Ann Coulter. > > So I figured I’d answer him, despite the fact that that thread was a total disaster. > > It’s a combination of two reasons: > (1) She doesn’t just disagree with me, she says horribly, false, and insulting things about me. At least, it sounds like they’re about me. She doesn’t just say “liberals are well meaning but wrong”. She says “liberals hate American and are treasonous traitors and are stupid”. And she doesn’t say “SOME liberals…” I may be exaggerating. But I don’t think I am. > > By contrast, nothing I’ve ever read from Michael Moore and Al Franken attacks your average Republican man on the street as, say, a rapist, which is one of few crimes as loathsome as treason. For instance, **The I Hate Republicans Reader** , a collection of leftist writings, has a preface that goes out of its way to point out that it’s talking not about the average member of the republican party, who is probably a nice, caring, generous, decent fellow, but the republican leadership and the Bush administration. > > \ Sorry, but that is complete bullshit. I think many ‘liberals’ don’t realize the level of derision aimed at ‘conservatives’. That, even though they have been exposed to it repeatedly. It’s amazing how adept the brain is at filtering out unwanted opinions. That capacity is necessary for social coherency, as well as social progress. I do the same thing thing; I’ve noticed it many times when I’ve re-read threads under the influence of very mind-altering chemicals. Not really in the case of politics\*, but that is true for many other subjects that I have had personal experience with. \*_adjusts tin-foil hat_ … party adherence is irrelevant, we are being duped. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/176 "2005-04-13T03:11:45Z")
> [@ninetypercent](#): > > Sorry, but that is complete bullshit. I think many ‘liberals’ don’t realize the level of derision aimed at ‘conservatives’. Perhaps you could give us some examples, then. ---
**Author:** ![Faith\_is\_Good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Faith\_is\_Good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faith_is_Good)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/177 "2005-04-13T04:25:04Z")
Coulter makes the same mistake on the Right, that some like Franken and Moore do on the Left/Progressive side. Namely, she won’t stick to arguments. Instead, she attacks people rather than just ideas. She is so involved in her own ideaology that she essentially accuses those who disagree with her of beign evil rather than having a different perspective. The Left should hope for more people like her since she lowers the intellectual merit of her issues, and marginalizes the middle against her side. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/178 "2005-04-13T05:07:20Z")
> [@Faith is Good](#): > > Coulter makes the same mistake on the Right, that some like Franken and Moore do on the Left/Progressive side. Namely, she won’t stick to arguments. That isn’t the impression of Al Franken I’ve gotten from reading his book (_Lies_) and occasionally listening to his radio show. Do you have examples? ---
**Author:** ![Faith\_is\_Good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Faith\_is\_Good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faith_is_Good)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/179 "2005-04-13T05:22:02Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > That isn’t the impression of Al Franken I’ve gotten from reading his book (_Lies_) and occasionally listening to his radio show. Do you have examples? For example Franken calling Limbaugh a big, fat, idiot. Indeed, he may be, but to put it in those terms degrades the arguments in the same way that Coulter calling those who disagree with suppression of civil rights in the name of fighting terrorism to be traitors. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320/180 "2005-04-13T05:40:03Z")
Well, not quite in the same way. In the first case, Mr. Franken is insulting Mr. Limbaugh individually. In the other, Ms. Coulter is not only insulting, but libelling every single one of her opponents (treason is a serious crime; being a big fat idiot isn’t). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-cant-just-laugh-ann-coulter-off/298320.md?page=10)