# Why I hate cops **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2014, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174 "2014-06-19T21:38:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/181 "2014-06-28T18:50:04Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > She told me about a hispanic coworker who lived in NYC. He was taking the Subway and when he got off, he helped a pregnant woman with a stroller go through the gate, he followed after her and was immediately approached by an officer for not going through the turnstile (fare evasion). That doesn’t make sense. In the NYC system, the Metro card is charged when you enter through the turnstile, not when you leave (like in DC, for example). If he went through the gate when leaving, he had already paid his fare and wouldn’t have been arrested. On the other hand, if he followed the woman through the gate when entering the Subway without passing through the turnstile he had in fact not paid his fare. There’s something wrong with the details of this story. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/182 "2014-06-28T19:09:08Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Also domestic violence is 4x higher among police families than among non-police. So I don’t believe this whole ‘99% are professionals’ story. Professionals who are in control of their emotions don’t go home and beat their spouses and kids. That’s probably largely due to the stresses of the job. Similarly, Cops have long been known to have extremely high rates of suicide and alcoholism. Not of course that I’m defending such behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/183 "2014-06-28T20:06:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That doesn’t make sense. In the NYC system, the Metro card is charged when you enter through the turnstile, not when you leave (like in DC, for example). If he went through the gate when leaving, he had already paid his fare and wouldn’t have been arrested. On the other hand, if he followed the woman through the gate when entering the Subway without passing through the turnstile he had in fact not paid his fare. There’s something wrong with the details of this story. I live in DC, I take the metro 4 days a week, you are are without a doubt, charged when you [leave](http://www.wmata.com/getting_around/faregates.cfm). You are charged by distance basically; so you swipe your card when you go in for the start point and at the end for the destination and you are charged an amount based upon the number of stops. Philadelphia(SEPTA) works the way you are describing, but not DC. You may be right about the New York system though. It was a number of years ago, he was using tokens. Another part of the story is when they emptied his pockets upon taking him in and he had a bunch of tokens on him(I thought that was kind of ironic) and the cops made a big deal of it. He was, in fact knowingly trying to evade the fare - he was kind of young and dumb at the time and thought he could just slip through unnoticed. I am pretty sure I am remembering the pertinent parts of the story right though. The guy was caught by an undercover cop. After going through the gate a home less man said “Hey, you didn’t pay,” - at first he was confused, but then the “homeless man” revealed he was a cop and cuffed him. I have very little doubt that the story is 100% true; and I definitely am not one to just believe things for no reason. I’m not really sure how what you are talking about is any more than a nitpick; it seems as if you believe their is something so important about whether he got caught entering or leaving that casts doubt upon the entire story. Basically, because I live in DC and take the metro so much, when I hear of someone getting caught evading a fare I automatically think leaving; but I have no idea how this distinction is material to the main points of the story. As I demonstrated above, it is a very easy thing to get confused about, as you yourself did when you said DC charges at the entrance instead of the exit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/184 "2014-06-28T20:13:07Z")
I think I read your post wrong, you are saying DC is pay upon exit, not that DC is like NY and you pay upon entry:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/185 "2014-06-28T23:10:06Z")
Everywhere in the world I’ve lived, clocking an unarmed person with a [club](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/club?s=t) is ADW. Threatening an unarmed person while you’re holding a club is also a crime. Your surprise at that charge tells more about you than about cops. You also seem to have problem with the concept that the police can recommend charges, but it’s the DA who actually prefer the charges to the court. ---
**Author:** ![common\_good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@common\_good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/common_good)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/186 "2014-07-01T20:29:41Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Hip waders, nose plugs, and hot water and soap for all! I’ve only just begun. I gets uglier, I can assure you. You may want more protection than those you propose. You ever leave the castle, Hammy ? Doesn’t seem so. I will expand and elaborate later. No time at present. The weak-hearted should brace themselves. If Hamlet thinks I’m fabricating, he’s pretty unfamiliar with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/187 "2014-07-02T01:42:32Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That’s probably largely due to the stresses of the job. Similarly, Cops have long been known to have extremely high rates of suicide and alcoholism. > > Not of course that I’m defending such behavior. A lot of people have stressful jobs. ER doctors and nurses, firefighters, wall street bankers, air traffic controllers, etc. I seriously doubt most of them have such high levels of child abuse and DV. Those people have different problems (divorce, adultery, substance abuse, depression, etc) but I don’t think there is a giant leap in DV rates. Law enforcement attracts a certain type of personality (callous, authoritarian, insular, disrespectful) and the job seems to make those traits worse. Luckily there have been efforts to move the force away from that into a more professional and community oriented force but that transition isn’t occurring nearly fast enough. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/188 "2014-07-02T02:12:35Z")
> [@common\_good](#): > > I’ve only just begun. I gets uglier, I can assure you. I have no doubt that you have a plethora of unverifiable stories to go with your jail sentence. Maybe the police planted drugs in your house. Or they raped your dog. Or they planted pre-raped dogs in your house. I can’t wait to hear what you come up with next. > [@common good](#): > > You may want more protection than those you propose. You ever leave the castle, Hammy ? Doesn’t seem so. > I will expand and elaborate later. No time at present. The weak-hearted should brace themselves. If Hamlet thinks I’m fabricating, he’s pretty unfamiliar with reality. You give yourself too much credit. I really don’t give a shit what you post, so I have no need to “brace myself” for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/189 "2014-07-02T02:36:27Z")
I don’t hate cops. They’re necessary. If there’s a country that doesn’t have police, I never heard of it. Even Vatican City has them. I am uncomfortable around police and I avoid them. For one thing, laws are complicated. I could be doing something illegal and not know it. For another, the few police I’ve known personally, with one major exception, scored fairly high on the asshole scale. I don’t think they all started out that way. I think if you have a job where people lie to you all the time and you get a pat on the back if you get somebody in trouble, it’s going to mess you up. When I lived in the US, I thought the problem was that there were too many police, and so, having nothing better to do, they’d bust teenage parties and stop people for minor traffic infractions. Hey, maybe I was partly at fault, you know, for going to parties and driving in cars. One thing that really bothered me was that they liked to stop me when I was out walking, like walking is a suspicious activity. Well, yeah, if you’re going to halt people and search them, it’s going to discourage the practice. Turns out that the US really doesn’t have that many police, just 227 per 100k. Australia has more than that. So’s the UK, Germany, and France. Russia has 564 per 100k. My personal experience is limited but my impression is that the police here in Australia are less invasive, although they do pull stuff like random breath tests on busy urban streets. Not even when the bars are closing when you’d surely catch some drunks, although I’m sure they do that too. I’ve seen them stopping cars on a Sunday afternoon. Seems like a disruption of lawful business to inconvenience many people to catch what must be a very few dangerous drivers. I have personally heard a cop threaten to shoot a kid if he attempted to escape. The kid was swimming after hours in a pool. Would that fat jerk have shot him? I hope not. Cops do shoot kids, though, everybody knows that. Some guys the other day on Facebook were all like, “Nobody buys their kids guns anymore, parents are wussies now.” Yeah, guys, I wouldn’t be buying my kids [any](http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2013/11/14-year-old_shot_by_battle_cre.html) [toy](http://rt.com/usa/boy-13-shot-toy-gun-644/) [guns](http://nation.time.com/2013/10/25/toy-guns-deadly-consequences/) either, certainly not the awesome realistic ones we had. Maybe the police were less jittery when I was a kid. Why might that be? Why would US cops be more nervous? My guess is the way guns have proliferated. The North Hollywood shootout could have been a turning point. Somebody mentioned the militarization of the police, and I think that’s a real issue. I think it’s justified, too. Americans have decided that the citizenry should be allowed to use military grade firearms, of course the police need to keep up. Just for their own safety they need to dress up like storm troopers. Plus fun new drugs like crack and meth. I’d think twice before calling these heavily armed nervous people, who are equipped to deal with equally heavily armed meth dealers, to help me out with a crazy kid, though. In North Carolina, [police killed a schizophrenic kid](http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-killed/) when his parents asked for help. Same with a [depressed kid in Virginia](http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/05/christian-alberto-sierra-purcellville-teenager-threatening-suicide-shot-killed-by-police-103465.html). In San Mateo, California, a mother called the ambulance, seeking help with her distraught and mentally ill daughter. A deputy [turned up instead](http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county-times/ci_26004476/family-half-moon-bay-teen-fatally-shot-by) and killed her. That was the [second time](http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/family-questions-why-schizophrenic-man-was-shot-pa/nfNs7/) this year a cop killed a mentally ill person in San Mateo county. All of those examples were from this year. I wasn’t there. I don’t know if the killings were justifiable. I’ll be damned if I’ll call the police on one of my kids, though. Which opens up a lot of other unpleasant possibilities, like me getting stabbed or my suicidal kid not getting help fast enough. And if I, though some horrific turn of events, kill some kid, mine or not, I know I won’t get the [soft](http://johntv.com/tulsa-cop-gets-probation-prostitution-firearms-arrest/) [treatment](http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/woodlands/crime-courts/article/Conroe-police-sergeant-gets-probation-in-fatal-5544786.php) a [cop](http://troy.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/oakland-deputy-involved-in-fatal-onduty-crash-gets-probation-troy) [found](http://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/courts/2014/04/01/7161147/) [guilty](http://abcnews.go.com/US/chicago-police-found-guilty-covering-bartender-beating/story?id=17716840) of a [crime](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-former-chicago-cop-pleads-guilty-to-bribery-20140403,0,3184258.story#) [gets](http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/02/nj_state_police_trooper_seeks.html). OK, so that was kind of long, if not pizza guy long. Anyway, I don’t exactly blame cops for all that stuff. In my opinion, processes are the problem most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/190 "2014-07-02T16:29:41Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > In North Carolina, [police killed a schizophrenic kid](http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-killed/) when his parents asked for help. The reason they asked for help was that the mother feared for her life, and the kid was allegedly armed with a screwdriver, which he refused to drop. > [@](#): > > Same with a [depressed kid in Virginia](http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/05/christian-alberto-sierra-purcellville-teenager-threatening-suicide-shot-killed-by-police-103465.html). Who attacked the police with a knife. > [@](#): > > In San Mateo, California, a mother called the ambulance, seeking help with her distraught and mentally ill daughter.A deputy [turned up instead](http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county-times/ci_26004476/family-half-moon-bay-teen-fatally-shot-by) and killed her. When she ran at him with a knife. > [@](#): > > That was the [second time](http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/family-questions-why-schizophrenic-man-was-shot-pa/nfNs7/) this year a cop killed a mentally ill person in San Mateo county. Who attacked them with an ax, and stabbed an officer. [Cite](http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/SWAT-Officers-Cleared-Of-Criminal-Charges-In-Fatal-Shooting-Of-Man-Suffering-Mental-Breakdown-261381371.html). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/191 "2014-07-02T17:16:56Z")
So, **common\_good,** I realize this was asked a while back, and you might have missed it… cite? > [@common\_good](#): > > I’m not ‘allegedly’ straight. But I have no bone to pick with gays. I support equal rights for everyone. Sorry for the snarky response. Apologizing for a snarky response? In the Pit? You really are new here… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/192 "2014-07-02T17:55:27Z")
> [@common\_good](#): > > When next I came over to my girlfriends house, he assaulted me, shoving me, hard, into every wall in their kitchen and dining room. I made no effort to fight back, only pleading him to calm down. He would not, so I tried to escape out the front door. As I did, he shoved me from behind and sent me crashing thru the stairway railing near the front door, breaking several spindals in the process, them pounced on me and began trying to choke me. At this point, I began to act in my defense and whacked him over the head 3 times with one of the spindals which had broken-off in my right hand from the shove. I rolled him off me and got on top and started to yell “Enough, stop now or I’m gonna’ hurt you.” He nodded agreement, I let him up and told him to go out back until I gathered my things and left. The asshole called the police and **I left with his mom**. The county charged me with assault with a deadly weapon. He lied on the police report and the cops and prosecutor believed every word. I took a reduced plea and was sentenced to 30 days. Neither he nor I brought charges. The county, which is a conservative bastion of right-wing jerk-offs, fucked me because **there were no witnesses** and because I am from a neighboring, more liberal, more cosmopolitan county. It’s a regular thing, around here. Thanks for the added detail. Regarding the bolded parts, was your girlfriend not a witness to these events? Just asking here; it seems from the above she was present at the time. Also, like I said, from the cops’ viewpoint, if all the above is correct, what they have to work from is two mutually incompatible stories, with the now-added information that one of the parties apparently has visible injuries corresponding to being struck by an object. Lastly, I’ve got to ask, did you tell the police that you hit him with a piece of wood? If you did, seems like you sort of incriminated yourself there. ---
**Author:** ![common\_good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@common\_good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/common_good)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/193 "2014-07-02T20:25:49Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > You want my cop stories, when you haven’t even come back to face the responses to your foolish OP? > > Nuh huh, _ **YOU** _ go first. I suspect you go in some kind of trouble and are upset. I’m busy. My nephew is in hospital and I’m involved in a custody battle over his guardianship. I don’t have time for petty crap. Your suspicions are false. Go live a life outside the castle walls, then get back with me. Can’t believe how many dumb smart people at this site. ---
**Author:** ![common\_good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@common\_good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/common_good)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/194 "2014-07-02T20:42:39Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Thanks for the added detail. > > Regarding the bolded parts, was your girlfriend not a witness to these events? Just asking here; it seems from the above she was present at the time. > > Also, like I said, from the cops’ viewpoint, if all the above is correct, what they have to work from is two mutually incompatible stories, with the now-added information that one of the parties apparently has visible injuries corresponding to being struck by an object. Lastly, I’ve got to ask, did you tell the police that you hit him with a piece of wood? If you did, seems like you sort of incriminated yourself there. Thanks for your thoughtful response. My girlfriend (the assailant’s mother) was upstairs and only heard the commotion. She’s an honest woman and, though she knew her son had attacked me, she did not quite witness the thing. We both left in her car and she dropped me at home, returning to her house. When she arrived home, police asked her to call me. She did and then handed the phone to a county sheriff who asked me why I “fled”. I replied, “Because the guy was trying to kill me”. Evidently I was wrong in trying to stay alive. Our justice system is broken. My experience alone does not tell me this. Read the news for far more ugly examples. Those who think I’m a self-pittying criminal are simply wrong. Btw, I dumped the broad, so it turned-out fine. Never trust someone so easily scared by cops. She didn’t have to call me and then hand-over her phone to them. But, she did. ---
**Author:** ![common\_good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@common\_good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/common_good)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/195 "2014-07-02T20:51:01Z")
The “deadly weapon” may have saved my life, btw, and found it’s way into my hand by the force of his shove. I didn’t even have to pick it up. It had broken-off In My Hand. He had three little bumps on his head from a 5oz. piece of pine. I was bruised from my ass to neck. It was, quite simply, self-defense. And I faced 5 years. I took a reduced plea of 30 days. That whole plea-bargaining tradition lies near the heart of what is wrong with our justice system. ---
**Author:** ![common\_good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@common\_good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/common_good)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/196 "2014-07-02T20:55:15Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > So, **common\_good,** I realize this was asked a while back, and you might have missed it… cite? > Apologizing for a snarky response? In the Pit? You really are new here… I am always polite, unless I need to be other. Yea, I’m new “here”. I’m old everywhere else. I did miss it. And again. Sorry, gotta’ go. ---
**Author:** ![common\_good](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@common\_good](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/common_good)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/197 "2014-07-02T21:00:09Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I have no doubt that you have a plethora of unverifiable stories to go with your jail sentence. Maybe the police planted drugs in your house. Or they raped your dog. Or they planted pre-raped dogs in your house. I can’t wait to hear what you come up with next. You give yourself too much credit. I really don’t give a shit what you post, so I have no need to “brace myself” for anything. Ditto, ditto-head. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/198 "2014-07-02T21:02:29Z")
> [@common\_good](#): > > I’m busy. My nephew is in hospital and I’m involved in a custody battle over his guardianship. I don’t have time for petty crap. Your suspicions are false. Go live a life outside the castle walls, then get back with me. > Can’t believe how many dumb smart people at this site. The irony, it burrrrrrrnnsss. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/199 "2014-07-02T21:06:47Z")
“I was bruised from my ass to neck. It was, quite simply, self-defense.” And it would seem to me given the comparative injuries and (if truthful) testimony from mother, etc. that you could have addressed this even if you didn’t formally seek to press charges against this person or he you. “That whole plea-bargaining tradition lies near the heart of what is wrong with our justice system.” Well, I think it’s more about the public defender system combined with scaring people in order to “help” them decide to take the “easy” route and plead to X in exchange for Y. Most defendants won’t bother to research a given court’s stats to find out what the sentence would be if (s)he pled not guilty and then was found guilty. What one faces potentially and what one ultimately receives are almost alway two wildly different things. When it comes to a second-degree assault charge under those circumstances, I’d likely have rolled the dice unless the stats dictated that’d be a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174/200 "2014-07-02T21:24:52Z")
> [@common\_good](#): > > I’ve only just begun. I gets uglier, I can assure you. Spoken like a true republican cop. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-cops/691174.md?page=11)