# Why I hate Witnessing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 30, 2002, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668 "2002-11-30T20:32:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/21 "2002-12-01T13:23:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dravin \* > \*\*It works like this: > > A and B are both C, by the OPs reasoning if B is not considered valid for reasons other then it is C, then A must be so. Which isn’t the case. > \*\* Of course. It’s all clear now. Huh? The problem is that the original A and B doesn’t exactly match up to your analogous A and B. The first A and B, were examples of sets of people attempting to reach an end (conversion - something that has occurred in the past to other people) and destruction of the US (something that by logical thinking alone we know could occur with enough fire power). In your A and B, one represented an attempt at an end that logical thinking tells might be possible (eradication of a virus is not unheard of) and the other, that of an attempt at an end that no conclusive evidence nor logical thinking has ever even come close to proving is possible. Now I’ve even forgotten what the hell we were talking about. In conclusion … AIDS is bad and the Loch Ness Monster is psychic. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/22 "2002-12-01T18:23:31Z")
I guess my analogy was kind of stretching things a bit. But like Dravin said I was trying to bait a witness into answering. And this is the pit after all. I suppose the point I was really trying to make was looking at the Al-Queda hopefully shows where unquestioning belief can lead. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2002, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/23 "2002-12-01T18:37:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Dear Witnesses: > > O.K. I don’t really expect to change your mind if you read this. I doubt you’ll even read this with an open mind. But I’m going to tell you anyway why I hate you so much. > Do you really believe that cramming you religion down other peoples throats is going to win any converts? You’re like the used car salesmen of religion. If I ever had the faintest interest in joining whatever weird religious cult you belong to your stormtrooper tactics have made so I shudder with disgust at the very mention of the idea. In fact you’ve made me so angry I want to become a Satanist purely to annoy you! You claim that it’s your “religious mission” to try and convert the non-believer. Just remember the Al-Quida think it’s their religious mission to destroy the U.S. Makes me wonder just how valid your mission really is eh? Do I try and convert you to my beliefs? No. Quit trying to annoy me with yours. > > P.S: I don’t give a damn if Jesus Loves me. It just sounds like your trying to take pity on me when you say it. Just shut up. No. That’s why I don’t do it. My job is to _show_ you, by the way I live and behave towards you, what Jesus has done in _my_ life, and to be honest towards you that He had a major hand in it. If the results turn you on towards Him, wonderful!; if not, I have no business buttonholing you and warning you to Repent of the Wrath to Come ™. > [@](#): > > Nothing, absolutely nothing will ever convince me convert to Christianity. Not even (the J/C/I) God appearing before me ala Monty Python and the Holy Grail! **Freyr** , I grok what _will_ work, and I’ll let you know when it happens; until then, what you need from me is to cover your back when you’re menaced by a Drive-By Witnesser who has a problem with your sexuality or your sincerely held belief system. And that you’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/24 "2002-12-02T06:55:01Z")
\*\*Lok wrote: Wouldn’t work. It would just let them know who hasn’t been saved yet, so they would know they needed to concentrate there even more. Wouldn’t that be fun.\*\* I disagree. If the evangelicals are truly serious about spreading The Word, why are they wasting time and money talking to people who already know about Christianity? Seriously, do you think there’s anyone in North America over the age of 10 who **hasn’t** heard Christianity’s basic message? If they’re serious about converting people, let them go places where Christianity **isn’t** already dominant in the culture. \*\*Polycarp wrote: Freyr, I grok what will work, and I’ll let you know when it happens; until then, what you need from me is to cover your back when you’re menaced by a Drive-By Witnesser who has a problem with your sexuality or your sincerely held belief system. And that you’ve got.\*\* Got it! Let me know your address so I can direct those bozos to you! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/25 "2002-12-02T08:41:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\*\*\*Lok wrote: > > Wouldn’t work. It would just let them know who hasn’t been saved yet, so they would know they needed to concentrate there even more. Wouldn’t that be fun.\*\* > > I disagree. If the evangelicals are truly serious about spreading The Word, why are they wasting time and money talking to people who already know about Christianity? Seriously, do you think there’s anyone in North America over the age of 10 who **hasn’t** heard Christianity’s basic message? > > If they’re serious about converting people, let them go places where Christianity **isn’t** already dominant in the culture.\*\* Sorry, having grown up in an evagelical church and gone to a private college ran by that denomination, they do not think that way. You are talking about people that send missionaries to places here in the USA, like Kentucky and West Virginia. They are not just interested in spreading the Word, they are intent on _converting_ everyone. If they just take no for an answer, they are not saving you. So they have to keep trying. And they will. Lok ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/26 "2002-12-02T09:10:51Z")
If someone can file a lawsuit against the fast food industry, then eventually someone will file a suite against those who push religion on those who have clearly expressed that they are not interested. What gets my admiration and attention is not the Scriptures that someone quotes or the person who knocks at my door. It is the person who “glows” with emotional intelligence and kindness. Then I ask \*\* her or him {/b] what has brought about this peacefulness. I think that fundies are taught that anyone who tries to convince them that they are barking up the wrong tree – must surely be the devil. “That’s just the devil talking!” What they don’t realize is that they are often as brainwashed as any other cult. If their actions don’t match their words, that is a giveaway. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/27 "2002-12-02T13:50:23Z")
I’d consider listening, if they could cut loose with the fire the way Sam Kinison did in his pre-comedy days. I won’t be moved, but at least I’ll be entertained. ---
**Author:** ![80sHairMetalMaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/8/ed655f/32.png) [@80sHairMetalMaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/80sHairMetalMaven)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/28 "2002-12-02T15:42:01Z")
Ugh. These people are the WORST. But just for funzies, when they come knocking on **MY** door,I usually tell them I’m in the middle of a ritual slaying of fatted calves and ask them politely to come back later.😃 IDBB ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/29 "2002-12-02T15:48:19Z")
Aaaaaannddd **His4Ever** , you’re on in 5…4…3…2…now! ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/30 "2002-12-02T16:03:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*No. That’s why I don’t do it. > > My job is to _show_ you, by the way I live and behave towards you, what Jesus has done in _my_ life, and to be honest towards you that He had a major hand in it. If the results turn you on towards Him, wonderful!; if not, I have no business buttonholing you and warning you to Repent of the Wrath to Come ™.\*\* **Polycarp,** that’s why you are one of the only people I’ve ever encountered who is _truly_ Christian and deserving my respect. You are actually honest about your faith, which seems to be based more upon Christ the Redeemer and Christ, Champion of the Downtrodden than Christ the guy who’ll send you to hell if you look at him cross-eyed. My way of dealing with Witlessing varies with my mood. I’ve firmly shut the door in old ladies’ faces, and I’ve debated a Hare Krishna to the point where she looked uncomfortable and excused herself for a lunch break. I’ve foamed at the mouth and calmly told people I wasn’t interested. I’m thinking of just lying to door-to-door soul solicitors and saying, “Yes, I have been saved,” but somehow I don’t think this will shut them up. What the majority of them don’t understand is that my relationship with the Deity of my Choice™ is a personal one, and none of their business, no matter how they interpret the Bible. I knew a Mormon once who refused to witness, saying that “There’s nothing I can do that God can’t–if He can’t convert you, then neither can I.” ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/31 "2002-12-02T17:41:48Z")
\*\*Polycarp - \*\* I have a hearty “Hear, Hear” for you. I too, especially recently, try to live my life as a Christian through example, rather than bible thumping. I now what I believe, am honest about it and try to be an example of it. I am often surprised the number of people who actually ask me about it, opening to door to an open conversation about faith, which I find so much more satisfying than trying to drive my faith down someone’s throat. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2002, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/32 "2002-12-02T23:25:06Z")
Scripture demands that Christians evangelize. Scripture also tells Christians that they will be hated and shunned for what they do and say. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/33 "2002-12-03T00:00:21Z")
**Satyagrahi** You make it sound like an Amway or other MLM type sales pitch. 😃 On a more serious note, was the term ‘Witnessing’ as used in the thread title meant to imply ‘Jehovah Witnesses’, or just plain ol’ vanilla witnessing? It’s capitalized, so that’s why I ask. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/34 "2002-12-03T00:01:56Z")
**Vanilla** is a pretty good witness for how to be a good Christian, IMHO!! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/35 "2002-12-03T03:05:22Z")
\*\*Lok wrote: They are not just interested in spreading the Word, they are intent on converting everyone. If they just take no for an answer, they are not saving you. So they have to keep trying. And they will.\*\* At this point, they’ve certainly broken social rules, I’m not sure the law, however. Any lawyer want to chime in here? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/36 "2002-12-03T05:11:41Z")
Actually, the the Witnesses have won several victories in courts not just of the U.S., but also Canada, Greece, Japan, whatever they call Russia nowadays, and I’m sure others. Murdock v. Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, U.S. Supreme Court (1943) Kokkinakis v. Greece, European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) (1993). Manoussakis and Others v. Greece, ECHR (1996). West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, U.S. Supreme Court (1943) Georgiadis v. Greece, ECHR (1997) St-Laurent v. Soucy, Supreme Court of Canada (1997) Hoffmann v. Austria, ECHR (1993) Aimé Boucher v. His Majesty The King,Supreme Court of Canada 1950 Laurier Saumur v. The City of Quebec. Canadian Supreme Court 1953 _University of Cincinnati Law Review_ > [@](#): > > Jehovah’s Witnesses have had a profound impact on the evolution of constitutional law, particularly by expanding the parameters of the protection for speech and religion. Hope that helps. Also, check JW’s [web site](http://www.watchtower.org/). Don’t worry, no pop ups. > [@](#): > > _Why do the Witnesses call on people who have their own religion?_ > In doing this they follow Jesus’ example. He went to the Jews. The Jews had their own religion, but in many ways it had turned away from the Word of God. (Matthew 15:1-9) All nations have religions of some kind, whether so-called Christian or non-Christian. It is vitally important for people to hold beliefs that conform to God’s own Word, and the efforts of the Witnesses to assist them in doing this constitute a showing of neighbor love. > > _Do the Witnesses believe that their religion is the only right one?_ > Anyone who is serious about his religion should think that it is the right one. Otherwise, why would he or she be involved in it? Christians are admonished: “Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.” (1 Thessalonians 5:21) A person should make sure that his beliefs can be supported by the Scriptures, for there is only one true faith. Ephesians 4:5 confirms this, mentioning “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Jesus did not agree with the modern, relaxed view that there are many roads, many religions, all leading to salvation. Instead, he said: “Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.” Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that they have found it. Otherwise, they would look for another religion.—Matthew 7:14. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/37 "2002-12-04T15:23:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PhiloVance \* > On a more serious note, was the term ‘Witnessing’ as used in the thread title meant to imply ‘Jehovah Witnesses’, or just plain ol’ vanilla witnessing? > > It’s capitalized, so that’s why I ask. 😕 \*\* Any kind of witnessing. I just wanted to capitalize it in the thread title so you wouldn’t think I was against witnesses for jury trials. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/38 "2002-12-04T15:38:40Z")
Ah… I thought you meant JW’s since you capitalized in the salutation, too. You would be surprised what a web search will pull up… Anyways…, I don’t have much of a problem with anyone “witnessing” to me, because I am relatively well versed in the Bible, have an amazing gift for gab, and most people just get that “how can I leave and still save face?” look while discussing deep things like that. Some, though, are rude and they resort to arguing. So, I tend to try and make them rue the moment they chose to attack me. You want to discuss your faith? Fine. You think I’m wrong and you’re right? Fine. You try to make others look stupid or feel small? I’ll usually call you on it. You get vehemently self righteous? I may try to hurt your feelings. Or leave you in mid sentence. Depends on mood. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/39 "2002-12-04T17:00:59Z")
thank you Polycarp. But I am curious: Why does my username lend itself to being red? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668/40 "2002-12-04T18:20:52Z")
I have no idea! What I coded it for was **bold** – does that show up as red on your screen? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-hate-witnessing/139668.md?page=3)