# Why I Support the Death Penalty for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253 "2015-04-22T03:22:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/61 "2015-04-22T20:20:04Z")
Can’t really pick and choose based on individual cases. Either we are consistent and I can support it, or we are not consistent and then I cannot. I believe we are not. I’m sure some lots of the folks who were sentenced to death really, really deserved it. I just don’t think we should use it until we can work the problems out of our system. I expect it’ll be a while. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/62 "2015-04-22T21:35:37Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Can’t really pick and choose based on individual cases. Either we are consistent and I can support it, or we are not consistent and then I cannot. I believe we are not. > > I’m sure some lots of the folks who were sentenced to death really, really deserved it. I just don’t think we should use it until we can work the problems out of our system. > > I expect it’ll be a while. The perfect is the enemy of the good. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/63 "2015-04-22T21:41:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What do the other examples have to do with this case? There is no fudged testimony or fiber analysis. The evidence is overwhelming and incontrovertible. He did it. There is no more doubt about this than about the Holocaust. Would you be confident in the possibility of writing a law to cover this situation that would\* only\* be used in such situations? Or, on the other hand, would you be comfortable giving the power to elected officials to say “Yep, dude deserves death” based on their interpretations of how certain it is a defendant is guilty? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/64 "2015-04-22T21:58:09Z")
> [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](#): > > And yet you abbreviate the word “usually”? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/65 "2015-04-22T23:25:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Assuming that “his friends in Dagistan and Chechnya” were of a mind to avenge him and actually had the capacity to do so, is there some reason that his continuing to draw breath would _stop_ them from doing so? Yes, if dead, theirs would not be a meaningful gesture. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/66 "2015-04-23T01:37:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s not a question of money to me. It’s a question as to whether the man _deserves to live._ > > Dzokhar Tsarnaev most certainly does not. “Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.” > [@Debaser](#): > > It’s really simple. Murder isn’t just a killing that you don’t happen to like. It’s a word that has a meaning. Calling the death penalty murder just because you don’t like it is like calling a soldier a murderer just because you don’t support a war. It’s simply ignorance. It’s not debatable in any way. It’s straight up, deliberate ignorance. Wrong. Murder has [several definitions](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/murder). One of them is as follows: \*5. to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously. \* You will find similar definitions in any dictionary you care to consult. Calling the death penalty murder, or calling a soldier a murderer, or to say meat is murder are all perfectly legitimate uses of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/67 "2015-04-23T02:19:13Z")
> [@CharlieKelly](#): > > Common American consensus has as little regard for life as it does for common sense. Let’s look at which countries clocked up the most death penalties last year; > China, Iran, North Korea, Yemen and the US. > On a humanitarian level, it’s no better than the North Koreans, with as feeble an understanding of rehabilitation and retribution. Stop fetishizing over death and dominance and try and get a deeper understanding of why people keep wanting to attack the states instead of demanding the death penalty…zzzzzzz:smack: So what? There are other democracies such as Japan that practice the death penalty too and obviously its not the same as the North Korean death penalty considering there are a whole range of crimes punishable by death there that’s not here. The death penalty comes out of the sensible recognition that some people cannot be rehabilitated and thus that its the better for all of us for said person to be dead. I don’t see what’s wrong with asserting dominance over murderers through the display of the power of the State via the death penalty nor is this an either/or decision where we must choose between eliminating root causes and executing at least certain types of criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/68 "2015-04-23T03:21:03Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > “Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.” He was a heck of a wizard but not much of a debater. This argument is easy to demolish. The argument here is that you shouldn’t do something in part unless you can do it all. Which is nonsense. Suppose Frodo had been in the opposite situation and had the opportunity to save somebody who was otherwise going to die. The exact same argument that says Frodo shouldn’t choose to kill somebody when he can also says he shouldn’t choose to save somebody when he can. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/69 "2015-04-23T03:40:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He was a heck of a wizard but not much of a debater. This argument is easy to demolish. The argument here is that you shouldn’t do something in part unless you can do it all. Which is nonsense. > > Suppose Frodo had been in the opposite situation and had the opportunity to save somebody who was otherwise going to die. The exact same argument that says Frodo shouldn’t choose to kill somebody when he can also says he shouldn’t choose to save somebody when he can. Nah, saving someone from death and killing someone are very different acts. If you kill someone, you can never bring them back. If you save someone, you can always (potentially) kill them later. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/70 "2015-04-23T12:52:47Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Yes, if dead, theirs would not be a meaningful gesture. Not to their victims, maybe. But to them, they’d be avenging a death (his). There was some discussion above about that being appropriate and just. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/71 "2015-04-23T13:22:02Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > You will find similar definitions in any dictionary you care to consult. Calling the death penalty murder, or calling a soldier a murderer, or to say meat is murder are all perfectly legitimate uses of the word. Bullshit. How many dictionaries did you check before you finally found that erroneous definition? Google’s definition and Mirriam Webster both don’t have it. If “murder” shares a definition with “kill”, then why not just be clear and say “kill”? Saying “meat is murder” is stupid on several levels. But it’s certainly not the proper use of the word “murder” since no law is being broken. If me squashing a spider the other day makes me a “murderer” than the word has no meaning. Just say killer. I always wanted that for a nickname anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/72 "2015-04-23T13:27:10Z")
If you have to struggle so mightily to find a word and a definition that would absolve us, doesn’t that tell you some more thought might be appropriate? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/73 "2015-04-23T15:43:29Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > “Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?" Sure, I’ll give it a whirl. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/74 "2015-04-23T15:47:47Z")
Welcome to Terminal Island, baby! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/75 "2015-04-23T16:26:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What do the other examples have to do with this case? There is no fudged testimony or fiber analysis. The evidence is overwhelming and incontrovertible. He did it. There is no more doubt about this than about the Holocaust. > > Regards, > Shodan If our system were one that **only** applies the death penalty to cases such as this, without also convicting people whose defense attorneys sleep through their trials, then there would be no connection. But it’s not such a system. It’s a system where well over 100 people who’d been sentenced to death were eventually exonerated, not through the normal workings of the system, but through the research and intervention of private groups such as The Innocence Project. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/76 "2015-04-23T16:29:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But it’s not such a system. It’s a system where well over 100 people who’d been sentenced to death were eventually exonerated, not through the normal workings of the system, but through the research and intervention of private groups such as The Innocence Project. The idea that we can’t execute a man who we know beyond any shred of a doubt is guilty because we _almost_ wrongly executed a completely different person 20 years ago is laughable, let alone your assertion that they weren’t exonerated “through the normal workings of the system”. Does the Innocence Project have its own independent judiciary or something? The simple fact is that _innocent people are not executed in the United States_ and an innocent person has not been executed in the United States in at least 50 years, and that complaints about the system’s lack of omniscience are not a valid argument against executing people who don’t deserve to live. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/77 "2015-04-23T16:58:25Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Would you be confident in the possibility of writing a law to cover this situation that would\* only\* be used in such situations? > > Or, on the other hand, would you be comfortable giving the power to elected officials to say “Yep, dude deserves death” based on their interpretations of how certain it is a defendant is guilty? It depends on what you mean. As far as the second question, I am fine with a system that gives the power to the state to condemn people to death if they are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Therefore I don’t see the necessity of a law only to cover cases where guilt has been established beyond any doubt, not just a reasonable one. And I am not naive enough to think that a law saying something like "the DP may only be imposed in cases where the evidence is incontroverible’ is going to achieve anything. This case is going to be dragged out by appeals just as much as any other DP case, and the fact that it is screamingly obvious that he did it is not going to make any difference at all. The anti-DP folks will argue endlessly that he shouldn’t be executed because his brother was worse than he was, or that his lawyer didn’t do a good job, or he’s too young, or his confession should be thrown out because it misspelled a word, or he hid in a boat so he can only be convicted of piracy, or one of the jurors had a brother-in-law who ran the Boston Marathon, or etc. etc. _ad infinitum_. Or else argue _non sequiturs_ like “we can’t execute this indisputably guilty person because ten years ago we almost didn’t acquit someone else”. The argument is often presented as “we convicted a few thousand people of murder, and ten or twenty of them were acquited when new evidence came to light. Therefore we can’t execute anyone because of the possibility that new evidence will come to light to exonerate one or two of them.” Well, I am quite comfortable saying that new evidence will never, and cannot possibly, come to light to exonerate this guy. So that argument doesn’t work in this case, and I don’t see its applicability. Like I say, it won’t help, and the appeals process will be dragged out interminably just like it always is. The appeals will just be based on something other than assertions of factual innocence, and will therefore (to me and many others) be less than persuasive. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/78 "2015-04-23T17:27:12Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > He wanted to become a martyr. If he gets the death penalty we make him one. We really shouldn’t give him what he wants. He should get life, with no chance of parole. Getting the death penalty would made him a martyr to the terrorists too . I could care less if he suffer , but I sure hate the idea that we’ll have to pay to keep him alive for the rest of his life. What a waste of good money ! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/79 "2015-04-23T19:25:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m perfectly OK with making a martyr out of anyone who wants to be one. It is a shame that they will never know they aren’t. Weren’t? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/80 "2015-04-23T19:35:41Z")
I don’t oppose the death penalty for terrorism, but if Jahar gets out in jail in MA, he is assuredly not getting any furloughs or conjugal visits. His life is going to suck wherever he’s inprisoned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253.md?page=5)