# Why I Support the Death Penalty for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253 "2015-04-22T03:22:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/101 "2015-04-23T22:13:03Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The argument is often presented as “we convicted a few thousand people of murder, and ten or twenty of them were acquited when new evidence came to light. Therefore we can’t execute anyone because of the possibility that new evidence will come to light to exonerate one or two of them.” Well, I am quite comfortable saying that new evidence will never, and cannot possibly, come to light to exonerate this guy. So that argument doesn’t work in this case, and I don’t see its applicability. The problem is that we don’t write the law for each person individually. What accounts for one accounts for them all. It matters because there isn’t a way - or at least a workable way that I can see - to have a “Oh, we’re _damn_ sure on this guy, fry him” law that couldn’t also affect people innocent of the charges. Or grant that power to judges to decide. The argument is applicable because there isn’t a “what is the sentence for the certainty of the crimes that this one guy did” law in the books. Law isn’t specific to one conviction. We only have one “net”; it has to work for every case. Want to make sure it has absolutely no holes at all? You can do that. But then the actually innocent people won’t have a way out, either. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/102 "2015-04-23T22:18:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Is there a difference? Damn. Check a dictionary. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe that any part of the world that suffers criminal murderers to live has a claim to calling itself “civilized”. The only thing that such squeamishness indicates is cowardice. So it takes _courage_ to kill a prisoner, does it? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/103 "2015-04-23T22:19:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > We don’t execute innocent people in this country. Sure we do. We just repeat over and over again that “They’re guilty!” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/104 "2015-04-23T22:24:29Z")
[Cameron Todd Willingham.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/105 "2015-04-23T23:46:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Cameron Todd Willingham.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham) [http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/08/03/fresh-doubts-over-a-texas-execution/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/08/03/fresh-doubts-over-a-texas-execution/) ---
**Author:** ![Karen\_Lingel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karen_lingel/32/18649_2.png) [@Karen\_Lingel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karen_Lingel)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/106 "2015-04-24T00:55:09Z")
What I would like to see is Tsarnaev to get life, and every 5 years blow off another of his limbs. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/107 "2015-04-24T00:58:20Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > What I would like to see is Tsarnaev to get life, and every 5 years blow off another of his limbs. Stake him out on an ant hill and let the relatives of victims peel his skin off with razor blades. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/108 "2015-04-24T00:59:42Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I actually **support** the death penalty for Boston bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. And the reason may surprise you all. It is because I don’t believe in causing prolong suffering. And I don’t believe in vengeance (which is all I believe retribution really is [sorry if you disagree:). > > If he is locked up for many years, he will suffer for all that time. Death is usu. relatively painless, even with the death penalty. How is this unique to to Dzhokhar Tsarnev? Basically you are saying you support the Death Penalty and it has nothing to do with the Boston Marathon Bomber. So, why bring that up? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/109 "2015-04-24T05:53:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Cameron Todd Willingham.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham) Willingham was guilty. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/110 "2015-04-24T11:29:52Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Sure we do. We just repeat over and over again that “They’re guilty!” > [@Smapti](#): > > Willingham was guilty. Pretty good predictive powers there, **Typo**. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/111 "2015-04-24T12:01:47Z")
Personally I don’t think he should get the death penalty because I have yet to see clear evidence of him planting a bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/112 "2015-04-24T12:44:44Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > The problem is that we don’t write the law for each person individually. What accounts for one accounts for them all. It matters because there isn’t a way - or at least a workable way that I can see - to have a “Oh, we’re _damn_ sure on this guy, fry him” law that couldn’t also affect people innocent of the charges. Or grant that power to judges to decide. > > The argument is applicable because there isn’t a “what is the sentence for the certainty of the crimes that this one guy did” law in the books. Law isn’t specific to one conviction. We only have one “net”; it has to work for every case. Want to make sure it has absolutely no holes at all? You can do that. But then the actually innocent people won’t have a way out, either. I probably am not understanding your argument, but it sounds like you are extending the notion that we can’t execute people who are absolutely, positively guilty because there might be others who are not really guilty. Again, I don’t think the argument applies to those who are absolutely, posititvely guilty - it has to do with others who are only guility beyond a reasonable doubt. And your argument that making sure there are absolutely no holes in a law is necessary only works if aboltion of the DP meant that nobody would ever be wrongfully sentenced to life without parole, and nobody who was sentenced to life without parole ever killed anyone else. There are at least as many cases of murderers who were not executed who went on to kill again as people who were wrongly executed, at least in the last fifty years or so. IOW if you “want to make sure it has absolutely no holes at all”, innocent people will die either way. Therefore the best alternative is to implement the system whereby the least number of innocents die. We use the DP in the current system - rarely and after long delays, but occasionally - and under that system, one innocent person was executed (maybe ). But we don’t usually execute, and thus Robert Stroud and Ed Wein and Ed Kemp and Arthur Shawcross (and [many others](http://www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.html)) went on to kill again. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/113 "2015-04-24T12:48:25Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I probably am not understanding your argument, but it sounds like you are extending the notion that we can’t execute people who are absolutely, positively guilty because there might be others who are not really guilty. Again, I don’t think the argument applies to those who are absolutely, posititvely guilty - it has to do with others who are only guility beyond a reasonable doubt. I think the argument (which I agree with) is that there is no legal method we can conceive of to separate those who are “absolutely, positively guilty” from those who are less certainly guilty in terms of the death penalty. There’s no way to only 100% guaranteed apply the death penalty to the “absolutely, positively guilty”. I don’t apply the same reason to life without parole, since that is reversible – new evidence can be found and brought to light, pardons can be issued, etc. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/114 "2015-04-24T12:52:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again, I don’t think the argument applies to those who are absolutely, posititvely guilty - it has to do with others who are only guility beyond a reasonable doubt. But every person who voted guilty on a jury believed the defendant to be absolutely, positively guilty. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/115 "2015-04-24T13:19:52Z")
Only beyond a \*reasonable \*doubt, not \*all possible \*doubt. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/116 "2015-04-24T13:31:36Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Only beyond a \*reasonable \*doubt, not \*all possible \*doubt. We execute people when there is possible doubt they are not guilty? Legalese for a juror may not be certain, but the prosecutor is, so vote guilty. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/117 "2015-04-24T13:36:19Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > We execute people when there is possible doubt they are not guilty? Not often. We do find people guilty when doubt is possible but not, according to the jury or judge, _reasonable_. > [@](#): > > Legalese for a juror may not be certain, but the prosecutor is, so vote guilty. Um, what? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/118 "2015-04-24T14:19:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not often. We do find people guilty when doubt is possible but not, according to the jury or judge, _reasonable_. > > Um, what? It seems to me that it tilts towards a guilty verdict. I wouldn’t vote a guy guilty of a parking ticket if there were possible doubt. It seems to me to be a legal term invented to cause a juror with a small amount of doubt to vote guilty. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/119 "2015-04-24T14:22:38Z")
Possible =/= reasonable. You vote guilty if it’s beyond merely a _reasonable_ doubt. Not sure what your problem is. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/120 "2015-04-24T14:28:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Possible =/= reasonable. You vote guilty if it’s beyond merely a _reasonable_ doubt. > > Not sure what your problem is. If there is a possible doubt, I wouldn’t vote guilty. The guy may be innocent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253.md?page=7)