# Why I Support the Death Penalty for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253 "2015-04-22T03:22:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/141 "2015-05-16T01:54:38Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > I think all evidence indicates that Willingham was completely innocent. The Frontline documentary was very compelling. But Tsarnaev is a piece of crap who deserves to drop dead. He’s clearly guilty of murder and terrorizing thousands of people. When even the liberals of Massachusetts agree . . . Who is Willingham? Google gives me nothing pertinent on “Willingham MA”. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/142 "2015-05-16T02:03:07Z")
[Cameron Todd Willingham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham), discussed earlier in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/143 "2015-05-16T02:20:12Z")
Thank you, Peter. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/144 "2015-05-16T02:23:53Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > If he is locked up for many years, he will suffer for all that time. Death is usu. relatively painless, even with the death penalty. > > Yes, I know that he will still face years of appeals. I agree with what Little Nemo wrote in #5. He’s only going to face years of appeals if he does appeal. If he thinks prison is worse suffering than death, he can insist on appeals being dropped, and die in a relatively painless way compared to means of suicide available to other prisoners. > [@Mr.Duality](#): > > LIP is less expensive than the DP. I’m against the death penalty but find this claim dubious. Any such calculation must include a bunch of low-quality-evidence suppositions. How the heck does anyone know today what last-ten-years-of-life medical care is going to cost fifty years from now? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/145 "2015-05-16T02:47:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Possible =/= reasonable. I don’t know what =/= means. And I don’t think the average juror, who is, like me, unschooled in your logic symbols, would much distinguish between reasonable doubt and beyond a shadow doubt. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/146 "2015-05-16T03:05:49Z")
Not a logic symbol. A keyboard shortcut for “does not equal.” A representation of the equals sign with a slash through it. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/147 "2015-05-16T03:51:13Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I’m against the death penalty but find this claim dubious. Look at it this way. The majority of DP cases are appealed successfully. Only about 1 in 7 death sentences actually results in an execution. Now, suppose the DP appeals process costs $1M, while life in prison costs $4M. That means that 1 time out of 7, they will spend $1M on appeals, and not spend $4M prison costs, thus saving $3M. The other 6 times, they will spend a million pursuing the DP, but fail to get it, and then spend $4M on prison costs anyway. So, 6 times out of 7, lose a million, the seventh time get 3 million back, for a net loss of $3M. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/148 "2015-05-16T04:09:24Z")
I don’t believe the death penalty is sound policy and find it morally repugnant. Had I my way no one in America would be put to death. As long as it exists though, he deserves it more than most already on The Row so I’m ok with this. Capital punishment means the harshest consequence, whatever it is, he deserves the harshest. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/149 "2015-05-16T17:17:45Z")
I was reading about the super-max prison he would have been going to, and what his life would be like there (something like 23 hours a day in a cell by himself with one hour a day in an enclosed ‘exercise yard’ with the only view being that of the sky). Personally, I would be totally fine with him living out his life there, and I think sentencing him to death is a mistake from several different angles, not least if they actually carry through with it that it might make him a martyr. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/150 "2015-05-16T17:43:26Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Personally, I would be totally fine with him living out his life there, and I think sentencing him to death is a mistake from several different angles, not least if they actually carry through with it that it might make him a martyr. If he dies of old age he’d still be a “martyr” to the kind of fanatics who are willing to do things like start wars and kill and enslave in the name of a cold-blooded murderer. If he wants to be a martyr, I say grant him his wish. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/151 "2015-05-16T17:47:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If he dies of old age he’d still be a “martyr” to the kind of fanatics who are willing to do things like start wars and kill and enslave in the name of a cold-blooded murderer. If he wants to be a martyr, I say grant him his wish. He can be as much of a martyr 30 or 40 (or, hell 80) years from now as he wants. By then he’ll be long forgotten. Also, he’ll have a very long and very horrible life, with plenty of time to regret his actions. I’m totally good with that. I think it’s real justice. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/152 "2015-05-16T17:49:07Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Also, he’ll have a very long and very horrible life, with plenty of time to regret his actions. I’m totally good with that. I think it’s real justice. That’s far more than he deserves and far more gracious than he was to his victims. He doesn’t deserve time to come to regret what he’s done. He deserves oblivion. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/153 "2015-05-16T17:55:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s far more than he deserves and far more gracious than he was to his victims. He doesn’t deserve time to come to regret what he’s done. He deserves oblivion. It’s exactly what he deserves, and killing him serves no purpose at all except in some sort of petty vengeance game…IMHO of course. A far worse fate is to live out his life in a box where he can’t even see out, and where he can regret his actions for literally years and decades before dying in obscurity, instead of being put to death where he knows he will get tons of media attention, and be regarded as a martyr. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/154 "2015-05-16T17:58:36Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It’s exactly what he deserves, and killing him serves no purpose at all except in some sort of petty vengeance game. What’s so petty about vengeance? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/155 "2015-05-16T18:03:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What’s so petty about vengeance? It’s petty because it is just about making you and those who want it feel good, not about practicality or real justice. It serves no other purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/156 "2015-05-16T18:07:24Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It’s petty because it is just about making you and those who want it feel good, not about practicality or real justice. It serves no other purpose. What _is_ justice other than something that makes its implementers feel good? It’s not something that has any objective existence or quantifiability - it’s something we as humans living in a specific culture invented to deal with those behaviors we find distasteful. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/157 "2015-05-16T18:12:02Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What _is_ justice other than something that makes its implementers feel good? It’s not something that has any objective existence or quantifiability - it’s something we as humans living in a specific culture invented to deal with those behaviors we find distasteful. Well, see, that’s where the disconnect is. I don’t think justice is about making folks feel good, and that there IS an objective definition of the concept. As for culturally specific, well yeah…and thus, in OUR culture there is a specific definition of the word and the concept. In this case, our society has more to lose and little to gain by executing Tsarnaev…and a fair and just punishment for him would be to allow him to spend decades in a cell considering the enormity of his crimes and what he did to those people he harmed, while he is forgotten and rotting away in said cell. Why give the guy MORE notoriety or make him some sort of symbol? Well, so you and others of a like mind can feel good, of course, because that’s what really counts, right? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/158 "2015-05-16T18:15:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What’s so petty about vengeance? This is a [master argument](http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/leoploeb/darrowclosing.html)by Darrow: > [@](#): > > Do you think you can cure the hatreds and the maladjustments of the world by hanging them? You simply show your ignorance and your hate when you say it. You may here and there cure hatred with love and understanding, but you can only add fuel to the flames by cruelty and hate. > [@](#): > > I repeat, you may search the annals of crime, and you can find no parallel. It is utterly at variance with every motive, and every act and every part of conduct that influences normal people in the commission of crime. There is not a sane thing in all of this from the beginning to the end. There was not a normal act in any of it, from its inception in a diseased brain, until today, when they sit here awaiting their doom. > But we are told that they planned. Well, what does that mean? A maniac plans, an idiot plans, an animal plans; any brain that functions may plan. But their plans were the diseased plans of the diseased mind. Is there any man with an air of intellect and a decent regard for human life, and the slightest bit of heart that does not understand this situation? And still, Your Honor, on account of its weirdness and its strangeness, and its advertising, we are forced to fight. For what? Forced to plead to this court that two boys, one eighteen and the other nineteen, may be permitted to live in silence and solitude and disgrace and spend all their days in the penitentiary. Asking this court and the state’s attorney to be merciful enough to let these two boys be locked up in a prison until they die. > > I sometimes wonder if I am dreaming. If in the first quarter of the twentieth century there has come back into the hearts of men the hate and feeling and the lust for blood which possesses the primitive savage of barbarous lands. What do they want? Tell me, is a lifetime for the young boys spent behind prison bars, is that not enough for this mad act? And is there any reason why this great public should be regaled by a hanging? I cannot understand it, Your Honor. It would be past belief, excepting that to the four corners of the earth the news of this weird act has been carried and men have been stirred, and the primitive has come back, and the intellect has been stifled, and men have been controlled by feelings and passions and hatred which should have died centuries ago. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/159 "2015-05-16T18:18:08Z")
> [@XT](#): > > and that there IS an objective definition of the concept. If you can prove an objective standard of justice, then you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize. > [@](#): > > In this case, our society has more to lose and little to gain by executing Tsarnaev…and a fair and just punishment for him would be to allow him to spend decades in a cell considering the enormity of his crimes and what he did to those people he harmed, while he is forgotten and rotting away in said cell. Why does he deserve to live? > [@](#): > > Why give the guy MORE notoriety or make him some sort of symbol? I seem to recall the same arguments being tossed around regarding Osama, Saddam, and McVeigh. Where are the people fighting in the name of those “martyrs”? Are we worse off as a society because they’re no longer with us? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253/160 "2015-05-16T18:33:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What _is_ justice other than something that makes its implementers feel good? Blowing up thousand year old art and people makes Talilban feel good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-i-support-the-death-penalty-for-dzhokhar-tsarnaev/718253.md?page=9)