# Why I'm joining the prop 8 protests **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2008, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606 "2008-11-07T07:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/1 "2008-11-07T07:14:44Z")
I haven’t had the opportunity the last two nights, but tomorrow I will be joining my brothers and sisters on the streets of Los Angeles to protest prop 8. I truly believe that this is an historic event and I would not be able to face myself in the mirror if I didn’t get involved. I am unable to stand by while other people fight for my rights. I don’t want to have to tell people that I stood by when I had the chance to help make history and help create equality. I was in the fight early on when all it involved was donating money and time to the campaign. I cannot stand by now. I spent wednesday in depression, I spent today going back and forth between depression and anger. I’m pissed that my basic civil rights are even being put up to a vote. That is utter and complete bullshit. I’m pissed that we are being put through this at a time when we should be able to celebrate other victories. I realize we are backed into a corner and I will fight. Never back down, never surrender. The stakes are too high this time. I realize this topic has been covered in numerous threads already and I apologize for starting yet another but I felt I had to express this. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/2 "2008-11-07T07:34:58Z")
Give 'em hell for me too. Wish I could be there. And yeah, we went through this 4 years ago here in Ohio. I was hoping California would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/13edae/32.png) [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interconnected_Series_of_Tubes)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/3 "2008-11-07T08:05:43Z")
I’m just curious - and let me state for the record that I find the passing of Prop 8 both sickening and saddening, if unfortunately not all that surprising. BUT: There was a vote. The People (who voted) decided to pass it. What’s the problem here? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/4 "2008-11-07T09:38:39Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#): > > I’m just curious - and let me state for the record that I find the passing of Prop 8 both sickening and saddening, if unfortunately not all that surprising. > > BUT: > > There was a vote. The People (who voted) decided to pass it. What’s the problem here? Well, to read many of the stories surrounding the understanding of the proposition, it doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone grokked it was actually _against_ gay marriage. So, if they promoted what came across as a false premise, I can certainly see why that’s just one reason to fight against it. The other would be because it’s inhumane. Finally, this straight woman from Texas is sending you her virtual support **Antinor**. Kick ass and take names. Someday there really will be a wall for this revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/5 "2008-11-07T09:50:24Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#): > > There was a vote. The People (who voted) decided to pass it. What’s the problem here? They were wrong to do so. Should blacks have just shrugged and said, “Oh well, guess we’ll just have to stay in the back of the bus” whenever a vote went against them ? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/6 "2008-11-07T09:52:34Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#): > > I’m just curious - and let me state for the record that I find the passing of Prop 8 both sickening and saddening, if unfortunately not all that surprising. > > BUT: > > There was a vote. The People (who voted) decided to pass it. What’s the problem here? Next on the ballot in 2010: _Reintroduction of Miscegenation Laws_ and _Removal of Women’s Right to Vote_. If the majority agrees, it’s OK, yes…? Point being, some basic human rights should not be allowed to be voted – or even legislated – away. The right to **equality** being foremost among them. (Oh, and another virtual hug of support from this Straight Guy. Just like in the older fights against my examples above, you **will** get there! :)) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/7 "2008-11-07T12:24:02Z")
Hear, hear. Hell, even _I’m_ thinking of going to some kind of protest or public display, if and when this goes to the CA Supreme Court. And I’m no damn liberal—I don’t even really _like_ liberals. And I _sure_ as hell don’t like protesters. But this Prop passing has made me ashamed to be a Californian for the first time in my life. Maybe I can hand out Alka-Seltzer to any Mormon counter-protesters, so they have something to feed their seagulls. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/8 "2008-11-07T14:31:41Z")
I wish I could be out there with you. I am still against 8 at the top of my lungs, though. Deb Straight Against 8 ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/9 "2008-11-07T14:34:52Z")
Sending many positive vibes your way. I love that sig, “Straight Against 8”. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/10 "2008-11-07T14:41:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They were wrong to do so. Should blacks have just shrugged and said, “Oh well, guess we’ll just have to stay in the back of the bus” whenever a vote went against them ? The problem with this is that homosexuals are in a different position than are black people when it comes to equal protection claims because of the “immutability” problem. Google it to get an education. If I were given the chance to vote for gay marriage in my state, I would do so, but I do not think that not allowing gays to marry violates their rights under the U.S. Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/11 "2008-11-07T14:45:23Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The problem with this is that homosexuals are in a different position than are black people when it comes to equal protection claims because of the “immutability” problem. Google it to get an education. > > If I were given the chance to vote for gay marriage in my state, I would do so, but I do not think that not allowing gays to marry violates their rights under the U.S. Constitution. And I think your interpretation of Equal Protection, despite being currently the law of the land, is naive, illogical, and discriminatory. Good luck on the demos… Another straight guy who felt like his teeth were kicked in Tuesday night. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/12 "2008-11-07T14:48:40Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The problem with this is that homosexuals are in a different position than are black people when it comes to equal protection claims because of the “immutability” problem. Google it to get an education. What am I to be googling? Immutability in relation to what? If I google “immutability” I get a myriad of different pages on different things, from “the immutability of God” to “immutability in C#” to basic definitions of the word “immutability”. My understanding of the word itself is that it means “unchangeable nature”. Are you suggesting that homosexuality is something that is subject to change, as opposed to race, which is not? Because if you are, you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/13 "2008-11-07T14:52:27Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#): > > There was a vote. The People (who voted) decided to pass it. What’s the problem here? The problem is The People are idiots. There seem to be one or two in this thread, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/14 "2008-11-07T14:57:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > What am I to be googling? Immutability in relation to what? If I google “immutability” I get a myriad of different pages on different things, from “the immutability of God” to “immutability in C#” to basic definitions of the word “immutability”. > > My understanding of the word itself is that it means “unchangeable nature”. Are you suggesting that homosexuality is something that is subject to change, as opposed to race, which is not? Because if you are, you’re wrong. First, I’m not suggesting a goddamned thing. I’m just talking about the current state of the law under the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution. Second, google “immutability equal protection” and maybe throw a “homosexual” in there (but your hits should get to homosexuality soon enough). ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/15 "2008-11-07T14:58:04Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > What am I to be googling? Immutability in relation to what? If I google “immutability” I get a myriad of different pages on different things, from “the immutability of God” to “immutability in C#” to basic definitions of the word “immutability”. > > My understanding of the word itself is that it means “unchangeable nature”. Are you suggesting that homosexuality is something that is subject to change, as opposed to race, which is not? Because if you are, you’re wrong. One of the reasons that sexual orientation is not a protected class under equal protection analysis is that it has been repeatedly found that homosexuality does not meet the required characteristics for such treatment, one of which is immutability. I think SCOTUS believes that because a person can act straight, that is sufficient. And, from their mind set, it probably is. After all at least one of their number has been doing exactly that for years. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/16 "2008-11-07T15:01:03Z")
> [@villa](#): > > One of the reasons that sexual orientation is not a protected class under equal protection analysis is that it has been repeatedly found that homosexuality does not meet the required characteristics for such treatment, one of which is immutability. I think SCOTUS believes that because a person can act straight, that is sufficient. And, from their mind set, it probably is. After all at least one of their number has been doing exactly that for years. Ah. I understand now. They’re still wrong. And this is the first I’ve heard of any of the justices rumored to be closeted…who’s the suspect? Edited: And by “they’re wrong”, I mean in the same way that they would be wrong if they ruled that the sky was a crystal hemisphere, with the stars being lamps attached thereto. It’s just physically and factually wrong, no matter that their word is law in the legal sense. They’d still be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/17 "2008-11-07T15:13:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > First, I’m not suggesting a goddamned thing. I’m just talking about the current state of the law under the Equal Protection Clause of the U.S. Constitution. > > Second, google “immutability equal protection” and maybe throw a “homosexual” in there (but your hits should get to homosexuality soon enough). SCOTUS has already ruled on the immutability problem. Did you miss Lawrence v. Texas? > [@](#): > > There was a vote. The People (who voted) decided to pass it. What’s the problem here? If you’re asking if there’s a reason to bother protesting - ie., there may be a viable legal challenge, then the answer is we don’t know. If you’re asking why people are upset, well, that should be obvious. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/18 "2008-11-07T15:21:36Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I don’t want to have to tell people that I stood by when I had the chance to help make history and help create equality. How will participating in the protests help do this? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/19 "2008-11-07T15:31:17Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The problem with this is that homosexuals are in a different position than are black people when it comes to equal protection claims because of the “immutability” problem. Google it to get an education. > > If I were given the chance to vote for gay marriage in my state, I would do so, but I do not think that not allowing gays to marry violates their rights under the U.S. Constitution. Irrelevant. Homosexuality isn’t a choice, nor does it matter; you can’t forbid people to marry because of choices, either. You can be a convicted **straight** thief, rapist or serial killer and still get married to who you love; just not homosexual. And I don’t care what the Constitution says; bigoted is bigoted. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/20 "2008-11-07T15:36:16Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > How will participating in the protests help do this? Because many of the people who oppose gay marriage and gay rights generally hope that homosexuals will crawl back into the closet after something like this. They know gays and lesbians are out there, but they don’t want to acknowledge their existance. The importance of the demonstrations, to me, is to show that this isn’t going away. That our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters are part of every level of our community, intertwined with our lives. That discriminating against them hurts real people. And to show that this is a set back, not the end. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606.md?page=2)