# Why I'm joining the prop 8 protests **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2008, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606 "2008-11-07T07:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/21 "2008-11-07T15:42:01Z")
I’m wondering how much help a gay general strike would be, too. It’s not something I really have any voice in, given that I don’t live in California, but it’s an idea. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/22 "2008-11-07T15:42:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > SCOTUS has already ruled on the immutability problem. Did you miss Lawrence v. Texas? No I didn’t miss it. You have missed its point. Lawrence v. Texas held that a state statute that criminalizes sodomy violates homosexuals’ right to liberty under the Due Process Clause. It said nothing about the Equal Protection Clause or the immutability doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/23 "2008-11-07T15:43:15Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Because many of the people who oppose gay marriage and gay rights generally hope that homosexuals will crawl back into the closet after something like this. They know gays and lesbians are out there, but they don’t want to acknowledge their existance. > > The importance of the demonstrations, to me, is to show that this isn’t going away. That our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters are part of every level of our community, intertwined with our lives. That discriminating against them hurts real people. And to show that this is a set back, not the end. But the problem is that probably 99% of the people against gay marriage believe that it is an affront to Gawd and his son Jebus. It is dubious whether more visibility will change these people’s minds. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/24 "2008-11-07T15:45:20Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#): > > BUT: > > There was a vote. The People (who voted) decided to pass it. What’s the problem here? Because Democracy does not mean majority rules. Democracy means protecting the minority. Right know the minority opinion is the right opinion and taht message needs to be shouted from the roof tops. That’s why. And I’m proud to say that Connecticut had a question at this election that was a side attack on Gay Marriage and was 3:1 voted down. One small victory, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/25 "2008-11-07T15:45:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And I don’t care what the Constitution says; bigoted is bigoted. It’s hard to imagine a more useless attitude. You NEED to care what the Constitution says, because amending it (via judicial interpretation or actual textual amendment) is the only way to solve this problem. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/26 "2008-11-07T15:52:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > But the problem is that probably 99% of the people against gay marriage believe that it is an affront to Gawd and his son Jebus. It is dubious whether more visibility will change these people’s minds. I am sure that number is from accurate research, not just made up by you. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/27 "2008-11-07T15:54:25Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Ah. I understand now. They’re still wrong. > > And this is the first I’ve heard of any of the justices rumored to be closeted…who’s the suspect? > > Edited: And by “they’re wrong”, I mean in the same way that they would be wrong if they ruled that the sky was a crystal hemisphere, with the stars being lamps attached thereto. It’s just physically and factually wrong, no matter that their word is law in the legal sense. They’d still be wrong. There have been many, many jokes made about the relationship between Justices Scalia and Thomas. I’m not sure how accuate they are, but I’d wager that that’s what villa was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/28 "2008-11-07T15:56:56Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > No I didn’t miss it. You have missed its point. Lawrence v. Texas held that a state statute that criminalizes sodomy violates homosexuals’ right to liberty under the Due Process Clause. It said nothing about the Equal Protection Clause or the immutability doctrine. Hey, you’re right! Well, that sucks. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/29 "2008-11-07T15:57:28Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > There have been many, many jokes made about the relationship between Justices Scalia and Thomas. I’m not sure how accuate they are, but I’d wager that that’s what villa was referring to. No. I feel kind of bad mentioning the rumors now, because as long as a person doesn’t use their public position to infringe on gay rights, and this Justice hasn’t, then their private life should be private. So I am now feeling kind of ashamed for rumor mongering as part of a throw away line. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/30 "2008-11-07T15:59:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And this is the first I’ve heard of any of the justices rumored to be closeted…who’s the suspect? Souter. And actually, I’m not sure that the Supreme Court has ruled on the question of immutibility of sexual orientation. Lower courts have, saying that homosexuality is immutable (Watkins v US Army), or mutable (High Tech Gays v Defense Industrial Security Clearance Office), but I don’t think it was ever addressed by the Supremes. Actually, if you read the decision in High Tech Gays, it talks a lot about equal protection standards and homosexuality (it’s a 1990 decision, so Bowers v Hardwick was still good law, and it points out that the Bowers decision, although it never addressed equal protection itself, was what the lower courts relied on to determine that there wasn’t a higher level of scrutiny in the matter of sexuality). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/31 "2008-11-07T16:02:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Souter. Huh. I’m usually pretty up-to-date on “celebrity” gay rumors, but I’d seriously never even heard a peep about him. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/32 "2008-11-07T16:03:57Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#): > > I’m just curious - and let me state for the record that I find the passing of Prop 8 both sickening and saddening, if unfortunately not all that surprising. > > BUT: > > There was a vote. The People (who voted) decided to pass it. What’s the problem here? There shouldn’t even be a vote. This a matter of basic civil rights and equal treatment under the law. The fact that 52% of the people of a state can vote to strip rights away is wrong. [QUOTE=cckerberos] How will participating in the protests help do this? [/quote] In the end it might or it might not. This country has a history of people protesting what is wrong and unjust. On Dec 1 1955, Rosa Parks held a one woman protest and refused to give up her seat to a white passenger. In February 1960 4 black students held a sit-in in Greensboro NC. These and many other events helped lead to the Civil Rights act of 1965 and many other advances of equality for all. On June 28th 1969 patrons of the Stonewall Inn fought back against the police and protested the laws that discriminated against them, today we can assemble together as we please. On Nov 4th 2008 the state of CA voted to strip us of very basic rights that we have fought for decades to obtain. Starting Nov 5th 2008, 10’s of thousands of people took to the streets to make their voices heard. Where this will end only history can tell us but I’ll be damned if I won’t do everything in my ability to help get those rights back. Not just for CA, but all over this country. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/33 "2008-11-07T16:10:32Z")
Good on you. Protest it. Use boycotts. Prop 8 was an abominable idea. Or better yet, if every gay and lesbian in the nation moved into a relatively small but friendly state, there would probably be enough new voters to implement a constitutional amendment in that state… I don’t think the opponents realize what kind of economic opportunity they just threw away. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/34 "2008-11-07T16:14:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Huh. I’m usually pretty up-to-date on “celebrity” gay rumors, but I’d seriously never even heard a peep about him. When you’re a 50 year old bachelor who is devoted to your mother, rumors get started. As Time Magazine put it in their profile of him in 1990: > [@](#): > > But Souter had barely left the podium in the press room of the White House before Republican Party officials were raising “the 50-year-old bachelor thing,” which was widely interpreted as a way of introducing speculation that Souter is homosexual. In fact the question has been dealt with twice: once in 1978, when Souter was about to be appointed a superior court judge, and then again in 1983, before he was named a state supreme court justice by then Governor John Sununu. During law school, he went out with Ellanor Fink, a student at Wheaton College. After he became a superior court judge, he dated Anne Hagstrom, a lawyer in the attorney general’s office. She said going out with Souter was like “knowing someone from another century.” More recently, Souter has dated a woman who works at a Boston television station. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/35 "2008-11-07T16:16:05Z")
Gay people deserve the exact same rights as everyone else. They should be allowed by government to enter into civil unions that provide them with the same legal benefits that hetereos enjoy, like hospitial visitation , insurance, health and tax benefits, inheritance disbursements, and everything else. Now, since I am not gay I don’t know the general pulse of the gay community, but this is pretty much all they want, right? I mean, they don’t generally care about getting married in a Catholic church or anything, do they? This is all about legality, isn’t it? It’s a shame that the government is bound by what appears to be a religious influence on this matter. Can anyone tell me without infusing religion into the answer why people won’t vote for this? As an aside, I read somewhere recently something to the effect that "the very same people that helped get Obama elected (read: African American and Hispanic voters) are the same ones that have a generally higher rate of homophobia. Is there anything to that? How ironic would that be? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/36 "2008-11-07T16:20:04Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > When you’re a 50 year old bachelor who is devoted to your mother, rumors get started. Well, to be fair, I’m just not that up on the Justices as personalities, beyond the more public of them. I couldn’t tell you who’s married and who’s not, and I definitely couldn’t tell you any of their spouses’ names. They’re just that group of people who decide Constitutional questions, as far as I know. Oh, and that Scalia’s an asshole. Other than that… _shrugs_ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/37 "2008-11-07T16:24:27Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Oh, and that Scalia’s an asshole. Other than that… _shrugs_ Scalia’s a top, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/38 "2008-11-07T16:26:44Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > As an aside, I read somewhere recently something to the effect that "the very same people that helped get Obama elected (read: African American and Hispanic voters) are the same ones that have a generally higher rate of homophobia. Is there anything to that? How ironic would that be? Well, according to CNN exit polling, 70% of African Americans and 53% of Hispanics voted for Prop. 8. Here’s the breakdown: > **[Local Exit Polls - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/)** ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/39 "2008-11-07T16:30:41Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > The fact that 52% of the people of a state can vote to strip rights away is wrong. Actually, 100% can vote that way. 48% didn’t. I suppose you could look at that as progress. No matter how you look at it, though, I am 100% behind you on this. I am reminded of a couple of friends of mine. They started dating 11 years ago. Last year they enshrined their love as a legal marriage. Today they are one of the most happy couples I know, and have a wonderful home together. Their house is beautiful, they love gardening, they are both amazing cooks, and they never show up to someone else’s home without a gift (like wine or bread). They enjoy being friends to everyone, and contribute greatly to society. Clearly these people have no purpose in life but to corrupt our youth and terrorize “real” Americans. Their evil ways must be stopped. Won’t someone think of the children? And having said that – dude, rejoin our Harn game. We miss you. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606/40 "2008-11-07T16:32:18Z")
If there hadn’t been such a landslide in CA, it might not have passed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-joining-the-prop-8-protests/471606.md?page=3)