# Why I'm Voting For Bush **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 22, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404 "2004-09-22T01:03:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/21 "2004-09-22T04:24:49Z")
Hey **Simon** , I’m confused. Are you seriously advocating voting for Bush for the reasons in your OP, or have I been whooshed by a bit of deadpan sarcasm? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/22 "2004-09-22T04:26:08Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > So, unless someone can suddenly convince me that Kerry can somehow undo a significant amount of the harm that’s coming _ **in a timely manner** _, I say that the best thing for the country _in the long run_ is that Bush be around to foot the bill for his foreign policy ventures. No one should bail him out of this one. And in the meantime so many concentrate on Bush’s foreign policy failures to doom him, his subtle changes to the federal government structure, civil liberties, domestic policies, etc., will continued unabated and unnoticed. Such damage will last much longer than his foreign policy blunders and have a greater impact upon this country. Better that Bush be removed now and cut off all his domestic and foreign policy blunders. Otherwise, while most will concrentrate on the bright lights issues, the rats will continue to chew in the dark corners. ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/23 "2004-09-22T06:21:35Z")
There is a term for the philosophy of the OP: defeatism. It also reflects a naivity IMHO: the OP basically assumes that no matter how bad things get in this country, we will be able to repair them. This is not how history works – when nation/states get into these foreign policy fuckups, it usually ends up costing them dearly. It destabilizes economies and alliances and all of a sudden, everyone is in a bad situation and there is no easy fix. Suddenly, you are dealing with collapses of empire and world wars. It smacks of defeatism because it assumes that Kerry won’t be able to do better. We are at a crucial juncture. Iraq is not a hemorrhage yet, it is a tamponaded arterial bleed. We have two choices: tourniqet it off and begin stitching it up now, or let it explode into a three foot spray of blood. Bush with his “we are making progress” line shows no recognition of the fact that this is a Real Bad Situation, and that leads me to believe that he has no major strategic changes up his sleeve. Think how bad Iraq can get if the inept handling that we have had to date continues. Iraq has the potential to quickly spiral out of control into a regional conflagration. The Shiites of Iran and Saudi Arabia and the Kurds of Turkey can easily get sucked in. That can in turn further destabilize Afghanistan, drag Pakistan into it, who knows about Syria and all the others. Then what are we going to do, with our tenuous cling to stability? All the reports say that the situation in Iraq is setting up an al Qaeda _victory_. The bastards will have won – we will be out of the Middle East, they will have Muslim theocracy from the Mediterranean to Pakistan. The same can be said, to a lesser extent, about domestic economic policy and social policies. The same can be said about environmental policy. Three wings of government are under the control of one party, and the wheels are coming off. I am a political moderate. I recognize the best thing for this country is sound bipartisan leadership. That doesn’t happen without gridlock. That is what we need in government. It is good that you recognize that the current powerholders are incompetent. You are jaded to assume that Kerry will be as incompetent. He may be, I don’t know. But we would be hard pressed to do worse than our current leaders, especially if policy is debated and focused through bipartisan review due to gridlock. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/24 "2004-09-22T06:33:28Z")
The electorate hasn’t held Bush and Republicans responsible for the lousy state of the economy. What makes you think they’ll hold them responsible for anything else? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/25 "2004-09-22T08:01:24Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > . > > So, unless someone can suddenly convince me that Kerry can somehow undo a significant amount of the harm that’s coming _ **in a timely manner** _, I say that the best thing for the country _in the long run_ is that Bush be around to foot the bill for his foreign policy ventures. I have two words for you, Simon, two critical, vastly more important words than this horrible folly in Iraq, two words that will reverberate on us, on our children, and on our children’s children: SUPREME COURT. That, all by itself, is reason enough for us all to vote for Kerry. It is a virtual certainty that bush will be able to replace one justice, it is entirely possible that he could replace up to four. That cannot be allowed to happen. Undoing the damage of a bad Supreme Court takes generations. Not to mention rest of the judiciary. Please… please… if you are in a battleground state, PLEASE vote for Kerry. The damage bush will do will not be mere egg on the face, it will be catastrophic. PLEASE. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/26 "2004-09-22T08:35:27Z")
I observe, powerlessly and votelessly, from across the Atlantic with much the same sentiments: I believe that the nationalistic paranoid aphasia sweeping the US right now will return the President who lost a truth-telling contest with Saddam Hussein to office, along with the administration which, had they been in power at the time, would surely have claimed that _Nixon_ did no wrong. Sad as this is, it gives me some hope about what will happen to America in the next four years. My fervent prayer is that the electorate sees that Emperor Bush’s brand of ultra-rightist authoritarianism has no clothes at all and emerges, blinking, into the 21st Century sunlight. Who knows _what_ is possible in 2008? Universal healthcare? Campaign finance reform? Death to the Death Penalty? Progressive taxation? A War on Poverty? Unfortunately, there is a nightmare mirror image. **Simon** ’s chickens come home to roost, Bush is shown to be an outright liar and a fraudulent plutocrat, and… …_nobody cares_. The electorate _still_ cannot recognise its cognitive dissonance, misinterpreting it as annoyance at “liberals” (the word being used so counterintuitively in the US that it is worse than useless - the Democrats would be far better calling themselves, well, _democrats_). It votes in _another_ Republican President in 2008, choosing to _ignore_ the Third World plight of so many of its number, and cheers as a miniscule percentage of its population takes so many slices of pizza that millions are left only with the box, which they must _live_ in. Consider this scenario, **Simon** , and consider it well. I have the luxury of votelessness - I believe Bush will win and 2008 might see a sea change in US politics, but it is out of my hands. It is not out of yours. As you write you name next to that of George W. Bush, the **candidate you are voting for** , in a manner which distinguishes you from a rabid Bush supporter **not one bit** , you might experience a strange, irritating tingling in your prefrontal cortex. That is the same **cognitive dissonance** that those rabid supporters have experienced but ignored for two years. Are you, like them, going to ignore it? ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/27 "2004-09-22T08:43:51Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Consider this scenario, **Simon** , and consider it well. I have the luxury of votelessness - I believe Bush will win and 2008 might see a sea change in US politics One ray of hope for Democrats in the event of a Bush win is that Hillary will not be taking on the incumbent in 2008. Whether she will push through all the reforms you mention we will have to wait and see, but my guess is that she’ll redirect the focus from “the war on terror” to a battle against poverty, sickness and ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/28 "2004-09-22T08:59:05Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Unfortunately, there is a nightmare mirror image. **Simon** ’s chickens come home to roost, Bush is shown to be an outright liar and a fraudulent plutocrat, and… > > …_nobody cares_. > > The electorate still cannot recognise its cognitive dissonance… I think this is not merely a “nightmare” scenario; this is what will happen. And you know why? Because Bush is “folksy”, “a man of the people”, “a man of principle”, while that other guy is a flip-flopper who looks French. :rolleyes: The bad thing is that the media are doing nothing to point out the cognitive dissonance, they have simply become a tool (willingly or unwillingly) of the Republican Noise Machine. They are pretty useless at this point. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/29 "2004-09-22T08:59:09Z")
Well, [Pat Buchanan](http://antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=2371) agrees with you, Simon. And according to the neocons, they might not have to wait until “after Kerry”. From [Bill Kristol](http://www.affbrainwash.com/archives/013929.php): > [@](#): > > Kristol told the Times that John Kerry had the real answer to the problems there: we need to send more troops. Kristol explained that this agreement between the neocons and the Democrats should surprise no one: > > “I will take Bush over Kerry, but Kerry over Buchanan or any of the lesser Buchananites on the right. If you read the last few issues of The Weekly Standard, it has as much or more in common with the liberal hawks than with traditional conservatives.” > > Kristol continued, “If we have to make common cause with the more hawkish liberals and fight the conservatives, that is fine with me, too.” > > In short, Kristol was saying to the GOP, “if you don’t continue your Wilsonian march, we will find a party (maybe Wilson’s) that will.” > > The neocons–and they admit this–are hawks first, and Republicans or conservatives second. Big question for me: How many more people have to die before this “Bush is doomed” business kicks in? Bottom line: Not gonna do it. Wouldn’t be prudent. Like him or not, John Kerry is the last hope for democracy. > [@SimonX](#): > > When I originally posted this (and that I agreed with Richard Perle) the SDMB died, so hamsters, beware. For the love of god, don’t keep looking in his eyes! Turn away! ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/30 "2004-09-22T15:55:50Z")
**Dan Aykroyd** said almost the same thing [much earlier](http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/165206p-144609c.html). But our own **SimonX** is much funnier. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/31 "2004-09-22T19:11:15Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > One ray of hope for Democrats in the event of a Bush win is that Hillary will not be taking on the incumbent in 2008. Whether she will push through all the reforms you mention we will have to wait and see, but my guess is that she’ll redirect the focus from “the war on terror” to a battle against poverty, sickness and ignorance. Well, Hillary Clinton will never run for president anyway. And even if she did, she wouldn’t challenge John Kerry in 2008 for the job, if he wins this year. Some people overestimate either Senator Clinton’s influence, appeal or ego—or possibly all three. Senator Clinton will surely win reëlection in the state of New York next year, but she’ll make no effort toward taking the White House, particularly with a Democratic president in office. As to Senator Clinton launching efforts for social reforms: that’d be great. But fighting poverty, sickness and ignorance, well… lofty goals, and not easy to do with all the neocons in Congress right now. But you want tax cuts? They’ll cut your taxes and make everyone richer, so they won’t mind the gutted social programs because those new millionaires will start dumping money into charities which will help the poor and replace the government’s need to fund the upkeep of our infrastructure! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/32 "2004-09-22T19:40:49Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > Kerry won’t take the hit from the current administration’s mistakes any more than Ahnold is taking the hit for California’s economic problems left to fester by Gray Davis. You’re kidding, right? Kerry is a Democrat. That means the right-wing nutjobs will be blaming him for every problem, screwup, and imagined slight from the moment he takes office, if not sooner. These are the same folks who blame Bill Clinton for a terrorist attack that happened six weeks after he took office, but give GWBush a pass for a terrorist attack nine months after he did the same. If there was a terrorist attack five minutes after John Kerry gets sworn in as President of the United States, the wight-wing noise machine would be demanding his resignation in six. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/33 "2004-09-22T19:42:37Z")
There are two additional problems with your position that no one has mentioned yet. First, Rove and company are attempting to hardwire congressional districts to be Republican forever. I’m a bit nervous about the voting machines also. They seem to have learned that no one of importance objects very much when Republican campaign leaders are also in charge of making elections fair. One, two, many Floridas. Can the Rovists be expelled in 2008? Second, and most importantly, I believe there is a good chance of a nuclear incident if Bush is re-elected. We know they have tunnel vision, and the slap on the wrist to Pakistan for distributing nuclear technology, and the lack of support for the the dismantling of the nuclear capability of the former Soviet Union makes me think that nothing will happen until it is too late. Then they will say, again, that nothing could be done because there was no clear actionable intelligence. I’m not saying that this won’t happen if Kerry gets in, but I think the odds are reduced. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/34 "2004-09-22T19:45:37Z")
> [@Rjung](#): > > If there was a terrorist attack five minutes after John Kerry gets sworn in as President of the United States, the wight-wing noise machine would be demanding his resignation in six. Well, if they waited seven, you’d scream bloody murder. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/35 "2004-09-22T20:15:29Z")
**SimonX** just curious, whats the origin of the South Park Republicans. Do they take their name from the TV show. As for the OP, I agree that a Bush victory could very well lead to the death of the “evil republicans” currently in power, and hopefully start a return of the warmer, cudlier, less psycopathic republicans of yore. I also think that a Kerry victory might lead to a strengthening of Bush and Co’s position, as a president Kerry would give them someone else to blame. In both the cases of gov. Ahnuld and a hypothetical Pres. Kerry, I think that both of them may end up doing their parties more harm then good. Both of them came to power promising to fix the problems of their predecessors, and both of them will be blamed by the electorate when they either fail to make things better or they are forced to make painfull measures to do so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/36 "2004-09-22T20:21:50Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > [As for the OP, I agree that a Bush victory could very well lead to the death of the “evil republicans” currently in power, and hopefully start a return of the warmer, cudlier, less psycopathic republicans of yore. I also think that a Kerry victory might lead to a strengthening of Bush and Co’s position, as a president Kerry would give them someone else to blame. Let me get this straight: If Bush loses, he and his political allies get stronger politically, but if they win they get weaker. Do you realise just how silly that sounds? I don’t mean to be snarky-- it just sounds unlikely, on the face of it. I think you are grossly overestimating the ability to leverage blame for political power. Yeah, it’s a strategy that can work somewhat, but you make it sound like he be all and end all of strategies. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/37 "2004-09-22T20:38:25Z")
There was an interesting discussion on “On Point” last night where Pat Buchanan, of all fucking people, said that the neocons are Wilsonian, utopian, “democratic imperialists”, and the most anti-republican people to hold power in Washington in the past 40 years, at least. His criticism of BushCo was so scathing I was quite taken aback. Bush is the antithesis of Reagan, as far as Buchanan is concerned (though I haven’t a clue how he can support this assertion, given Reaganomics, Iran-Contra, Empire of Evil vs. Axis of Evil, hatred of gays (as evidenced in his deliberate neglect of the incipient AIDS epidemic), etc.). So, the hypothesis, then, is that, with four more years of Bush, the paleocons eventually turn on the neocons, while the Democrats sit by and watch the Republican Party implode. It’s a beautiful scenerio, I must admit, but it seems like wishful thinking. One can hope. There is another option: Rather than handing Bush a false mandate, cast your vote for a third-party candidate (boy, I sound like Jackie Chiles). Yeah, you cost Kerry the election, but you deny Bush a majority vote. Bush wins in the Electoral College, but is supported by less than half of the voting electorate, and hence the US might retain some respect in the eyes of the wider world. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/38 "2004-09-22T21:02:28Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > I just can’t see Kerry being stuck with any kind of blame for a mess he didn’t get us into, _even if he fails to get us out of it_. Hey, Clinton got stuck with Somalia. If Kerry gets elected, anything that happens after inauguration is his call. “I didn’t get us into this mess, so it’s not my fault” is not an option. No matter how shitty the situation is, he has to be ready take it upon himself. That’s what he’s asking us to let him do, essentially. That’s why they get paid the big bucks! ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/39 "2004-09-22T21:13:16Z")
> [@mack](#): > > That’s why they get paid the big bucks! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404/40 "2004-09-22T21:30:40Z")
It was a joke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-im-voting-for-bush/265404.md?page=3)