# Why, in the US, are attractive women called foxes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2014, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563 "2014-09-05T07:57:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/21 "2014-09-05T15:52:04Z")
Interestingly, decades before Hendrix, D.H. Lawrence wrote a well-known story called “The Fox,” in which a predatory fox symbolized MALE sexuality. As with other people, Jimi Hendrix was the one who introduced me to “foxy” as an adjective for desirable women. So, I have to assume it was a popular phrase among black Americans, and that white Americans picked up on the phrase from black singers and musicians. That said, by 1976, the term was already such a cliche that Steve Martin and Dan Aykroyd used it to show how clueless and socially inept the two “Swinging” Czech brothers were (as if only a doofus would try to pick up girls by calling them “foxes”). ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/22 "2014-09-05T18:11:01Z")
[It was seen as comically out of date even in the 70’s, but big American breasts never go out style](https://screen.yahoo.com/festrunk-brothers-000000414.html) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/23 "2014-09-05T18:25:05Z")
Many things that guys say to each other _about_ women are inappropriate to say _to_ a woman, and humor can be made out of depictions of this sort of inappropriate use. Just because SNL’s “wild and crazy guys”, in the '70s, made fun of guys using the expression in an inappropriate way, it does not follow that it was obsolete in all contexts. It may be dated _now_, but I am pretty sure it had a pretty good run. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/24 "2014-09-05T19:53:26Z")
Why else, then, would this be for sale? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/25 "2014-09-05T21:32:05Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > The Doors “20th Century Fox” came out at about the same time, and I think of that one, too. A bit of research suggests The Doors release was a bit earlier (early 1967 as opposed to mid 1967). I’d forgotten about that one. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/26 "2014-09-05T22:45:36Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > Also don’t forget the classic line from the original UK spoof documentary “The Office” : > > “What’s the difference between a dog and a fox ?” One has a heart, the other … ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/27 "2014-09-05T23:26:25Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > You were not around in the 1570s. > I’m not really sure what you were getting at in your post. Are you saying there is no relation at all between calling women vixens (a fox) in 1570 and calling them a fox today? > I was just pointing out that calling a women a “fox” goes back over 400 years, certainly before the 19th Century. They were using a different word for fox, but they were calling women foxes, and 400 years is plenty of time for the term to shift meanings. I recall a previous thread touching on this. My opinion was and is that “bitch” took over the previous meaning of “vixen”, while “vixen” changed meanings. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Hell, all you need to do is a Bing image search for “vixen” to see that it now means the same a “fox”. That is, an attractive women. More like “seductive and promiscuous”, which isn’t quite the same thing. And was originally insulting much like the original meaning of vixen - I’ve seen it used like that in older fiction - but as society has loosened up abut female sexuality it’s much less so. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/28 "2014-09-05T23:43:38Z")
From about '73-'75 in central Indiana, the term was THE word used by teenage boys for an attractive girl. We never gave a thought about its etymology. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/29 "2014-09-06T01:30:09Z")
Muhammad Ali used to refer to the pretty girls a foxes when he was still Cassius Clay. That was the early 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/30 "2014-09-06T01:42:21Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > Muhammad Ali used to refer to the pretty girls a foxes when he was still Cassius Clay. That was the early 1960s. Again, Black English in the early 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/31 "2014-09-06T01:52:16Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Why, in the US, are attractive women called foxes? Why, in the UK, are women called birds? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/32 "2014-09-06T02:08:32Z")
Female foxes [scream during sex](http://sounds.bl.uk/Environment/British-wildlife-recordings/022M-W1CDR0001493-0900V0), leading to the conclusion they are most ardent lovers in the animal kingdom. A foxy woman is one that may be expected to be especially willing in bed. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/33 "2014-09-06T02:56:15Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I recall a previous thread touching on this. My opinion was and is that “bitch” took over the previous meaning of “vixen”, while “vixen” changed meanings. > > More like “seductive and promiscuous”, which isn’t quite the same thing. And was originally insulting much like the original meaning of vixen - I’ve seen it used like that in older fiction - but as society has loosened up abut female sexuality it’s much less so. I agree with all of this. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/34 "2014-09-06T03:30:37Z")
in Chinese mythology, 狐狸精 (directly translated as fox spirit) are usually depicted as beautiful females when in human form, so that has been around since BC. not sure if it has always been so but nowadays, it is used as a derogative to refer to a woman messing around with a married man. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/35 "2014-09-06T08:16:08Z")
In Spain a woman who is called a fox (zorra) is being called a whore/slut. Not a good term. ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/36 "2014-09-06T10:20:41Z")
I heard ladies called foxes when I was young and assumed it was due to the people chasing the fox. And mental images of old timey fox hunts, foxes hunted by dogs and men on horseback. So I thought that foxes were those ladies desired by men… ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/37 "2014-09-06T11:07:03Z")
I assume it’s because foxes have lots of problems with fleas. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/38 "2014-09-06T11:52:43Z")
Jimi Hendrix, Foxy Lady. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/39 "2014-09-06T16:00:03Z")
Clarence Carter also had a song called “Looking for a Fox” in 1968. (later covered by the Blues Brothers) Seems pretty contemporary with the other songs. Personally, I always assumed, like **Boogly** , that it had to do with fox hunts. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563/40 "2014-09-06T17:06:58Z")
In _Return of the Straight Dope_, published in 1994, one Cecil Adams dedicates the book “To Mary, still a fox after all these years”, so maybe we can lure him here to join in the discussion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-the-us-are-attractive-women-called-foxes/697563.md?page=3)