# Why in WW2 did the French scuttle their warships rather than turn them over to BritainF **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563 "2015-02-02T01:16:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/62 "2015-02-04T04:47:51Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Of course there was. Sometimes you do the right thing even if you can’t see how it personally benefits you. Helping the Allies was the right thing to do and it made sense. Article 8 of the Armistice agreement: > [@](#): > > The French war fleet is to collect in ports to be designated more particularly, and under German and/or Italian control to demobilize and lay up—with the exception of those units released to the French Government for protection of French interests in its colonial empire. > > The peacetime stations of ships should control the designation of ports. > > The German Government solemnly declares to the French Government that it does not intend to use the French War Fleet which is in harbors under German control for its purposes in war, with the exception of units necessary for the purposes of guarding the coast and sweeping mines. > > It further solemnly and expressly declares that it does not intend to bring up any demands respecting the French War Fleet at the conclusion of a peace. > > All warships outside France are to be recalled to France with the exception of that portion of the French War Fleet which shall be designated to represent French interests in the colonial empire. Sending the fleet to Britain to continue fighting would seem to be a violation of that. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/63 "2015-02-04T05:06:50Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Article 8 of the Armistice agreement: > > Sending the fleet to Britain to continue fighting would seem to be a violation of that. I know. The Fleet should have been sent before the Armistice was signed. It should have been sent before terms were even asked for. The British were begging the French to do this, if Wikipedia can be believed. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/64 "2015-02-04T11:52:45Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > I know. The Fleet should have been sent before the Armistice was signed. It should have been sent before terms were even asked for. The British were begging the French to do this, if Wikipedia can be believed. And the French were begging the British not to withdraw their planes from French airspace during the German invasion, to push their troops south and try to link up with the main French body, and, to evacuate French troops in parity with British ones at Dunkirk, and Britain didn’t do that for them. Why send the navy off to get itself killed when the war was almost over and it seemed inevitable that Britain would make a peace soon anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/65 "2015-02-04T12:17:41Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > And the French were begging the British not to withdraw their planes from French airspace during the German invasion, to push their troops south and try to link up with the main French body, and, to evacuate French troops in parity with British ones at Dunkirk, and Britain didn’t do that for them. Why send the navy off to get itself killed when the war was almost over and it seemed inevitable that Britain would make a peace soon anyway? Our old friend Admiral Darlan drafted a telegram to Admiral Abrial at Dunkirk stating; “As soon as you are convinced that no troops outside the bridge head can make their way to the points of embarkation the troops holding the bridge-head shall withdraw and embark, _the British forces embarking first_.” Churchill objected and said that the evacuation should be conducted with French and British troops _“bras dessus, bras dessous”._ In the end the great majority of the French troops evacuated during Operation Dynamo chose repatriation rather than staying in Britain and joining De Gaulle’s Free French, so it wasn’t as if the lack of enthusiasm for joining the British struggle was confined to the French Navy alone. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/66 "2015-02-04T12:28:49Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > It makes sense why turning the ships over to the British might have been unpalatable, but why not the neutral option? Running for Turkey would expose them to attack from Italian and German forces among others, but it was a powerful fleet (though without air cover, right?), and their odds of survival would be better while on the run than sitting in port. Alternatively, they could head through the Strait of Gibraltar to head south to Liberia, but Liberia probably could not accommodate them. Could they have made it across the Atlantic? Churchill mentioned French colonies in the Americas, but most of the countries of the Americas were neutral at that time. I imagine they could have defended themselves against any Axis submarines that tried to cut them off in the Atlantic, and surely they would face less Axis opposition heading towards the Atlantic than towards Turkey, right? According to the Wiki link on Mers-el-Kebir (somewhere above), the British ultimatum offered escort to a neutral port, suggesting America. This was actually something in the French commander’s orders from Vichy to consider, but apparently, that part of the ultimatum was not passed on to the fleet commander, and so he only had the choice of defect, scuttle, or die. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/67 "2015-02-04T13:39:42Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > According to the Wiki link on Mers-el-Kebir (somewhere above), the British ultimatum offered escort to a neutral port, suggesting America. This was actually something in the French commander’s orders from Vichy to consider, but apparently, that part of the ultimatum was not passed on to the fleet commander, and so he only had the choice of defect, scuttle, or die. Is this correct? Im not saying you are wrong but im sure I read that the neutral port part of the ultimatum was not released to the French public. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/68 "2015-02-04T14:10:11Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Is this correct? Im not saying you are wrong but im sure I read that the neutral port part of the ultimatum was not released to the French public. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-K%C3%A9bir): > [@](#): > > Somerville did not present the ultimatum personally. Instead, this duty fell to the French-speaking Captain Cedric Holland, commanding officer of the carrier HMS Ark Royal. Admiral Gensoul, affronted that negotiations were not being conducted by a senior officer, sent his lieutenant, Bernard Dufay, which led to much delay and confusion. > > As negotiations dragged on, it became clear that neither side was likely to give way. **French Navy Minister Admiral Darlan never received the full text of the British ultimatum from Admiral Gensoul, most significantly with regard to the option of removing the fleet to American waters, an option that formed part of the orders Darlan gave to Gensoul, to be followed should a foreign power attempt to seize the ships under his command.** ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/69 "2015-02-04T16:18:57Z")
[quote=“DrDeth, post:56, topic:711563”] Ok, you are defending a notorious Nazi Collaborator and anti-Semitic. A man who no-one trusted- not the Nazis, not the Allies, not even his own countrymen. [QUOTE] Fair enough, but he wasn’t a traitor. The United Kingdom committed an act of war against Darlan’s country. I am not sure how it’s a confusing matter as to why Darlan would fight back against the UK and its allies. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/70 "2015-02-04T17:08:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Fair enough, but he wasn’t a traitor. > > The United Kingdom committed an act of war against Darlan’s country. I am not sure how it’s a confusing matter as to why Darlan would fight back against the UK and its allies. Well, true, the Attack on Mers-el-Kébir was a act of war. But compared to what the Germans did to France- _it was a romp in the countryside with butterflies and bunnies._ But before that occurred I want to point out this _"Darlan expected Germany to win the war and decided that it was advantageous for France to collaborate with Germany. He distrusted the British, and after the armistice of June 1940 he seriously considered waging a naval war against Britain. As a top official in the Vichy government, Darlan repeatedly offered Hitler active military cooperation against Britain._" > **[François Darlan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois_Darlan)** > > Jean Louis Xavier François Darlan (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}French pronunciation: \[ʒɑ̃ lwi ɡzavje fʁɑ̃swa daʁlɑ̃\]; 7 August 1881 – 24 December 1942) was a French admiral and political figure. Born in Nérac, Darlan graduated from the École navale in 1902 and quickly advanced through the ranks following his service during Worl... Note that that other Nazi collaborator Petain was indeed tried and convicted of Treason. Darlan doubtless would have been if not for his assassination. So, yes, Darlan was a traitor. Note that "_In a speech to Parliament, Churchill repeated that the French armistice with Germany was a betrayal of the Allied agreement that forbade each country from surrendering to the Germans without notifying its allies. "_ ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/71 "2015-02-04T20:25:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ok, you are defending a notorious Nazi Collaborator and anti-Semitic. A man who no-one trusted- not the Nazis, not the Allies, not even his own countrymen. You’re not even in the realms of reality now. I am defending no one; I am telling you that you are wrong. If he was a man no one, not even his own countrymen trusted, how is it that when he ordered the Vichy French forces to cease resistance against and join the Allies his orders were obeyed? Why did FDR and Eisenhower broker the deal with him? I thought no one trusted him? > [@DrDeth](#): > > I suppose you can say Darlan “kept his word” in that no significant French ships were handed over the Nazis. But that’s because the Allies had to sink most of the remaining ships during the Naval Battle of Casablanca, after Darlan ordered his navy to fire on the US Navy- without provocation. 1)You’re wrong, as usual. Most of the French fleet was at Toulon, France in November 1942 and scuttled there when the Germans tried to seize it. There was only a partially complete battleship, a light cruiser, and 9 destroyers at Casablanca. 2) Darlan didn’t order anything, and 3) the French fleet at Casablanca sortied because [the Americans were landing and shelling the French coastal batteries](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Battle_of_Casablanca), hardly “without provocation”. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure, there were a lot of cites. But if someone provides you with 14 cites that all agree that “xxxxx” finding fault with two of them doesnt allow you to ignore the other dozen. You didn’t provide 14 cites that I found fault in two of. You didn’t provide a single actual cite aside from retreading the one I already replied to, you provided google vomit of the words “admiral darlan not trusted” and “admiral darlan Nazi Collaborator” and obviously didn’t even bother to look at what the results you got were before presenting said vomit, you ‘cited’ a _novel_. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/72 "2015-02-04T20:56:07Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > You’re not even in the realms of reality now. I am defending no one; I am telling you that you are wrong. If he was a man no one, not even his own countrymen trusted, how is it that when he ordered the Vichy French forces to cease resistance against and join the Allies his orders were obeyed? Why did FDR and Eisenhower broker the deal with him? I thought no one trusted him? > > 1)You’re wrong, as usual. Most of the French fleet was at Toulon, France in November 1942 and scuttled there when the Germans tried to seize it. There was only a partially complete battleship, a light cruiser, and 9 destroyers at Casablanca. 2) Darlan didn’t order anything, and 3) the French fleet at Casablanca sortied because [the Americans were landing and shelling the French coastal batteries](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Battle_of_Casablanca), hardly “without provocation”. > > You didn’t provide 14 cites that I found fault in two of. You didn’t provide a single actual cite aside from retreading the one I already replied to, you provided google vomit of the words “admiral darlan not trusted” and “admiral darlan Nazi Collaborator” and obviously didn’t even bother to look at what the results you got were before presenting said vomit, you ‘cited’ a _novel_. His orders were obeyed as he was in command. And, you can broker a deal with someone, even if you dont trust them. The Allies didnt trust or like him, but they did make a controversial deal with him to save lives. Admiral Auphan ordered the scuttling, not Darlan. Darlan was in Allied hands at that time. True, more ships were in Toulon, but by the time they were scuttled Darlan no longer was in command. Darlan was in command at Casablanca, and had given general orders to resist, despite the fact that the Allies had been talking to him for months. Still it took him being captured at gunpoint, and being given enormous positions of authority for him to order the surrender. Many Allied men died in those two days, needlessly. The French at Casablanca opened fire first, due to Darlans orders and failure to surrender early. Again, those cites show that Darlan wasnt trusted. See: > **[Hitler's U-Boat War](https://books.google.com/books?id=E8GDrZJEAGIC&pg=PA163&lpg=PA163&dq=admiral%2Bdarlan%2Bnot%2Btrusted&source=bl&ots=XKdNJ9AOxE&sig=qugHQgLvqhr8UxL-dZMNyT_uN0I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EQHRVLqZKe7IsASA0YG4DA&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=admiral%20darlan%20not%20trusted&f=false)** > > Clay Blair's best-selling naval classic Silent Victory: The U.S. Submarine War Against Japan, is regarded as the definitive account of that decisive phase of the war in the Pacific. Nine years in the making, Hitler's U-boat War is destined to become... and > **[Sink the French](https://books.google.com/books?id=vdn1yxFnZ6YC&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=admiral%2Bdarlan%2Bnot%2Btrusted&source=bl&ots=jNuYvLyQld&sig=K26wzr_NePc7Ez-Gl7WLVMtyrZA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kQHRVMKVFdeHsQS48YCIAQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=admiral%20darlan%20not%20trusted&f=false)** > > The victorious German Blitzkrieg assault on Holland, Belgium and Northern France placed Anglo-French relations under huge strain. The Vichy surrender raised real British fears that the Germans would force the French Fleet, the fourth largest in the... and President FDR sent a message to Ike about Darlan saying: **1. That we do not trust Darlan.** > **[Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: F.D. Roosevelt, 1942,...](https://books.google.com/books?id=7CfeAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA482&lpg=PA482&dq=admiral%2Bdarlan%2Btrusted&source=bl&ots=LAz24q3D-G&sig=GaPrIj1igxY4L5ZJ5uB49XmhMh8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s4bSVI7DE_HisATUyIHABw&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=admiral%20darlan%20trusted&f=false)** > >  Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/73 "2015-02-04T22:13:52Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > According to the Wiki link on Mers-el-Kebir (somewhere above), the British ultimatum offered escort to a neutral port, suggesting America. This was actually something in the French commander’s orders from Vichy to consider, but apparently, that part of the ultimatum was not passed on to the fleet commander, and so he only had the choice of defect, scuttle, or die. So making a run for, say, Brazil was never considered? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/74 "2015-02-04T22:19:04Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > So making a run for, say, Brazil was never considered? Darlan wanted to use the Fleet to help the Nazis. Well, at least when they were winning… ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/75 "2015-02-04T22:45:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Darlan wanted to use the Fleet to help the Nazis. Well, at least when they were winning… I wondered if it had been considered by the French commanders on the scene. Neither defecting to the Allies nor making their ships potentially (and probably) available to the Axis that had just been killing their comrades and conquering their country, it would seem like a rational choice. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/76 "2015-02-04T23:32:31Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I wondered if it had been considered by the French commanders on the scene. Neither defecting to the Allies nor making their ships potentially (and probably) available to the Axis that had just been killing their comrades and conquering their country, it would seem like a rational choice. There’s some evidence that sailing to a neutral port was what many of the line officers wanted, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/77 "2015-02-05T00:02:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There’s some evidence that sailing to a neutral port was what many of the line officers wanted, yes. Damn. What a shame that they couldn’t make it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/78 "2015-02-05T00:37:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Fair enough, but he wasn’t a traitor. > > The United Kingdom committed an act of war against **Darlan’s country**. I am not sure how it’s a confusing matter as to why Darlan would fight back against the UK and its allies. If Darlan’s country is Vichy France, he certainly was a traitor. If his country is the French Republic, it didn’t exist when the UK bombed the French Fleet. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/79 "2015-02-05T01:49:34Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > If Darlan’s country is Vichy France, he certainly was a traitor. If his country is the French Republic, it didn’t exist when the UK bombed the French Fleet. Darlan’s country was France, and his nation the French. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/80 "2015-02-05T03:08:20Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Darlan’s country was France, and his nation the French. “France” wasn’t a country. “France” was a geographical term, like the “equator”. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563/81 "2015-02-05T04:19:28Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > “France” wasn’t a country. “France” was a geographical term, like the “equator”. False dichotomy. All countries are geographical (and cultural) terms. France is indeed a country, and widely referred to as such by speakers of English (and of course French). Over the years there have been two French empires, five republics and I’ve lost count of how many kingdoms, but these are not different countries; they are different states, governments or constitutional structures which (making due allowance for the odd border change or territory grab) administered the same country - France - and the same nation - the French. Of all nations, the French are perhaps the least likely to think that their country has been extinguished, and a new country created, every time they revise their political constitution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-in-ww2-did-the-french-scuttle-their-warships-rather-than-turn-them-over-to-britainf/711563.md?page=5)